Freezone Post-Scientology auditor Dexter Gelfand on Psychiatric Medications

[JustSheila]

I think only the prescription from the Doctor is allowable. That's the correct answer from a patient/client welfare point of view and legal framework. Udarnik has already talked about clearance rates , dosage and therapeutic levels.

Just because a scientologist knows how to know, doesn't mean he knows anything. The psychiatrist has given a prescription and it's not up to anyone to mess with that.

When I work with clients, the info they bring about the treatment by a different practitioner is sometimes fanciful at best. If they have mental issues, try to figure that into the equation.

When co-managing a client it is essential to have some communication with the other practitioner. Just a note saying 'Client says you're doing blah, I'm doing blah, so far blah has happened' - is so simple and easy to do. It gives the other practitioner an opportunity to clarify misunderstandings and give direction. An expert in com-cycles should know this.

Or would that ruin a 'oh, but I thought' legal defence?

Treatment should always be in the best interest of the patient.

As far as we know all prescriptions are from a doctor.

There may be some comm between practitioners.

You work in this field?

Terril, Jump brought up a very good point.

Firstly, Dexter is not a 'practitioner.' Not having any professional counseling degree of any kind, he is not a qualified therapist. So there would be no referral of information - he is not in the network of medically qualified professionals.

Medical information is highly confidential and outside of medical professionals, can only be released with the client's specific written consent. Don't take my word for it, check the laws yourself.

Dexter sounds to be taking the client's word on what the psychiatrist says and changes in his medication. The fact that he does not have a written change in prescription and is not relying on actual prescriptions puts Dexter personally at great risk, as well as the client. I highly doubt Dexter has any direct communication with the doctor of any kind due to confidentiality laws.

Having worked in the mental health field myself, I can tell you that it's not uncommon for clients to lie about taking their meds. Sometimes knowingly, sometimes not, but it happens. I've seen co-workers fired for taking a client's word on this when it was later proven wrong. Like Jump says, you don't mess with the psychiatrist's prescription. Any changes are in writing in official prescription form.

Don't forget the tragedies from NN and other places where scientologists took people off psychiatric meds without psychiatric changes of prescription and the person died or even at times killed others. There are plenty of sad stories like this on ESMB.

 

[Anonycat]

Hi,

Let's look at a wack-a-doodle phony therapy created by an insane practitioner of Black Magic, in order to satisfy his lust for money. Then let's be truly great at it. I'm no expert, but all medications that save lives, have a downside.

That's about as much as I could watch.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

As far as we know all prescriptions are from a doctor.

There may be some comm between practitioners.

In the U.S., at least: (1) all prescriptions come from medical doctors; and (2) all psychiatrists are medical doctors and can prescribe psychiatric (and other) medications. Indeed, one must become a medical doctor (M.D.) before one can become a psychiatrist.

Psychologists are not medical doctors and cannot prescribe psychiatric (or other) medications.

 

[Jump]

In the U.S., at least: (1) all prescriptions come from medical doctors; and (2) all psychiatrists are medical doctors and can prescribe psychiatric (and other) medications. Indeed, one must become a medical doctor (M.D.) before one can become a psychiatrist.

Psychologists are not medical doctors and cannot prescribe psychiatric (or other) medications.

Although that is correct, you might find that other practitioners who are not medical doctors per se can prescribe medications. I'm thinking of podiatrists, optometrists, dentists, nurse practitioners. Of course, these would be from a regulated list and would not be psychoactive substances.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Terril, Jump brought up a very good point.

Firstly, Dexter is not a 'practitioner.' Not having any professional counseling degree of any kind, he is not a qualified therapist. So there would be no referral of information - he is not in the network of medically qualified professionals.

Medical information is highly confidential and outside of medical professionals, can only be released with the client's specific written consent. Don't take my word for it, check the laws yourself.

Dexter sounds to be taking the client's word on what the psychiatrist says and changes in his medication. The fact that he does not have a written change in prescription and is not relying on actual prescriptions puts Dexter personally at great risk, as well as the client. I highly doubt Dexter has any direct communication with the doctor of any kind due to confidentiality laws.

In the video Dexter states he does not have any direct communication with the doctor, and indeed that the doctor does not even known his name.

I suspect (though don't know off the top of my head) that if the client / patient signed an appropriate wavier of medical confidentiality, the doctor could share information with Dexter. Still, if the doctor "conferred" with an unlicensed "spiritual counselor" such as Dexter, or treated such an unlicensed "spiritual counselor" as professional colleague for purpose of diagnosis and/or treatment, it could open up the doctor to major medical malpractice liability, and perhaps endanger the doctor's license.

If, God forbid, the client / patient committed suicide or harmed someone, and the doctor was sued for malpractice, could you imagine explaining to a jury that the doctor did, or didn't do, something based on the "professional" advice of the unlicensed "spiritual counselor?"

While this may not make some people happy to hear this, there are licensing and educational regulations and requirements for health professionals -- including mental health professionals -- for a reason.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Although that is correct, you might find that other practitioners who are not medical doctors per se can prescribe medications. I'm thinking of podiatrists, optometrists, dentists, nurse practitioners. Of course, these would be from a regulated list and would not be psychoactive substances.

You are right. Even EMTs, etc. can administer, but not prescribe, certain medications. Although I too broadly referred to medications, generally, I was thinking of psychiatric medications. To my knowledge, only medical doctors can prescribe psychiatric medications. Even that I'm not entirely sure about -- in some jurisdictions it is possible nurse practitioners can prescribe some psychiatric medications, though I doubt it. I know that psychologists cannot.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

In the video Dexter states he does not have any direct communication with the doctor, and indeed that the doctor does not even known his name.

I suspect (though don't know off the top of my head) that if the client / patient signed an appropriate wavier of medical confidentiality, the doctor could share information with Dexter. Still, if the doctor "conferred" with an unlicensed "spiritual counselor" such as Dexter, or treated such an unlicensed "spiritual counselor" as professional colleague for purpose of diagnosis and/or treatment, it could open up the doctor to major medical malpractice liability, and perhaps endanger the doctor's license.

If, God forbid, the client / patient committed suicide or harmed someone, and the doctor was sued for malpractice, could you imagine explaining to a jury that the doctor did, or didn't do, something based on the "professional" advice of the unlicensed "spiritual counselor?"

While this may not make some people happy to hear this, there are licensing and educational regulations and requirements for health professionals -- including mental health professionals -- for a reason.

Thanks!

I fully get your point.

But after further consideration, it seems medically sound to me that a doctor would permit an unlicensed spiritual counselor to prescribe medication at whatever intervals and dosages they felt appropriate. As long as that counselor had successfully completed courses written by a sci fi writer.

 

[Jump]

Thanks!

I fully get your point.

But after further consideration, it seems medically sound to me that a doctor would permit an unlicensed spiritual counselor to prescribe medication at whatever intervals and dosages they felt appropriate. As long as that counselor had successfully completed courses written by a sci fi writer.

Indeed.

And in the spirit of such co-operation, the unlicensed spiritual counselor would agree to share the client's treatment with the qualified psychiatrist so long as their reciprocal professional correspondence was effusive and breathless regarding immense wins with space getting bigger, and the increasing facility of location of convenient parking. On this planet. And so on and so forth.

 

[AngeloV]

Dexter is operating on a false premise, which is that being on a maintenance dose of psychiatric medication is wrong and needs to be stopped by using talk therapy. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being on medication which allows a person to function in life without debilitating mental issues. Anxiety disorder, depression, schizophrenia, etc. all may require a person to be on meds for the rest of their lives and there is nothing wrong with that. It is not something that needs to be 'fixed' by using Dr. L. Ron 'quack' Hubbard's talk therapy.

Therapy, given by a licensed therapist, exercise and diet may help relieve or lessen a person's mental issues but they may not be enough and medication is required.

Leave it to the ex-scios, freezoners and other LRH quack 'mental practitioners' to promulgate idiotic notions put forth by a lying sci-fi writer to screw up people's lives...and make them feel like they can talk away their brain disorders. Dexter is still operating under Hubbard's bullshit premise that 'psych' meds screw up a person's 'spirituality' and that people can simply 'think' their chemical imbalances away. There is no difference between having to take medications for mental disorders and a diabetic having to take insulin shots for the rest of their lives.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Dexter is operating on a false premise, which is that being on a maintenance dose of psychiatric medication is wrong and needs to be stopped by using talk therapy. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being on medication which allows a person to function in life without debilitating mental issues. Anxiety disorder, depression, schizophrenia, etc. all may require a person to be on meds for the rest of their lives and there is nothing wrong with that. It is not something that needs to be 'fixed' by using Dr. L. Ron 'quack' Hubbard's talk therapy.

Therapy, given by a licensed therapist, exercise and diet may help relieve or lessen a person's mental issues but they may not be enough and medication is required.

Leave it to the ex-scios, freezoners and other LRH quack 'mental practitioners' to promulgate idiotic notions put forth by a lying sci-fi writer to screw up people's lives...and make them feel like they can talk away their brain disorders. Dexter is still operating under Hubbard's bullshit premise that 'psych' meds screw up a person's 'spirituality' and that people can simply 'think' their chemical imbalances away. There is no difference between having to take medications for mental disorders and a diabetic having to take insulin shots for the rest of their lives.

Since there was no Bullshit icon I made my own

 

[RogerB]

Interesting comments "for" and "against" the Dexter . . .

Interesting to see who is seeing him as good and OK versus those who speak of personal experience of him.

One thing that stands out in his video is that the most used words in the whole this is "I" . . . I as is me, the clever Dex who is doing this "brilliant shit" . . .

The whole communication comes across to me as that he is not really imparting some useful info in the context that "it has been discovered that we can still process clients even though they are considered 'illegal PCs' on KSW lines" . . . . . NOOoo, the pitch from Dex is all I, I, I . . . look how clever I am: come to me to get yourself fixed.

Apart from all else, that should be enough to turn any sane person off!

A worthwhile practitioner of any subject does not pitch himself, himself, himself . . . he cites the work-ability of the practice or technology used . . . for that, in fact, is what the client would get any result from . . . screw the vanity of the "I"-notice-me-merchant.

I look at the vid, and what I see is something quite phony . . . and it shows on his face, hence the pudgy look and bags under the eyes; the phony smile, the hand waving gesture, gesture, gesture . . . he knows he is proffering something questionable. His whole body language says don't look too closely at me, nor look directly into my eyes . . . believe the smear I am putting up.

As noted above by others, he is not to be trusted. And that too is my finding as a result of personal dealings with him. He is not honest as to what he is doing, why, or how he does it.

Sad, but that is the way it is.

R

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

Interesting comments "for" and "against" the Dexter . . .

Interesting to see who is seeing him as good and OK versus those who speak of personal experience of him.


R

Interesting in what way Roger?

Don't leave us in mystery ... do share with us yet more of your astonishingly intuitive insights (they are always so funny and some of us need a laugh).

You could even slip in another ad for your own tehhhhhk ... if you're a bit clever about it.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Dexter was on my friends list a while back (and may still be, I haven't checked recently). I always thought his heart was in the right place and that he was sincere about helping people.

 

[George Layton]

Dexter was on my friends list a while back (and may still be, I haven't checked recently). I always thought his heart was in the right place and that he was sincere about helping people.

How many people that are involved in scientology auditing have their heart in the right place? That makes no difference whatsoever if your using a process or processes that bring about delusional thinking in the minds of those it is used on.
Auditors should only audit one person, her/him self. If Dexter is suggesting to his prey that they should change, in any way whatsoever, the regimen set forth by their doctor in regard to their drugs, he is endangering that person. I responded to Terril above that, because dexter told him "anything" does not make it so. I implied it sarcastically and of course the idea that Dexter was lying (intentionally or under delusional influence), was scientolocically redefined as, he said this and that and of course because he said it, it was so, and moving on the doctor and patient must have things all worked out and of course then came the wins of, it is helping.

This guy is practicing a hybrid of scientology auditing. Of course it is helping the pc (it is always said to no matter what) and none of it should be invalidated just because 1) scientologists lie, 2) auditing has to have a built in belief that what is wrong with you is what hubbard defined, 3) so many people have had perception of reality skewed to a point it took them years to come back to physical reality.

The "What is true for you is true" concept is total bullshit if you turn it into whatever you believe is true. Physical reality is true. The physiological changes to the body brought about by chemicals is a physical reality. If your heart says help people by convincing them that they have mental power over body chemistry, your heart is fucking some people over.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Hate to say this but Dexter looks like a man who is developing cancer. I don't wish that on anyone but it wouldn't surprise me if it came up in the next six months.

Huh? Is this like those dogs who can sense an imminent seizure in their human companion and warn them so they can lie down etc? I wasn't aware that there were recognisable visible advance signs of developing cancer.

Paul

 

[Ted]

Interesting comments "for" and "against" the Dexter . . .

Interesting to see who is seeing him as good and OK versus those who speak of personal experience of him.

One thing that stands out in his video is that the most used words in the whole this is "I" . . . I as is me, the clever Dex who is doing this "brilliant shit" . . .

The whole communication comes across to me as that he is not really imparting some useful info in the context that "it has been discovered that we can still process clients even though they are considered 'illegal PCs' on KSW lines" . . . . . NOOoo, the pitch from Dex is all I, I, I . . . look how clever I am: come to me to get yourself fixed.

Apart from all else, that should be enough to turn any sane person off!

A worthwhile practitioner of any subject does not pitch himself, himself, himself . . . he cites the work-ability of the practice or technology used . . . for that, in fact, is what the client would get any result from . . . screw the vanity of the "I"-notice-me-merchant.

I look at the vid, and what I see is something quite phony . . . and it shows on his face, hence the pudgy look and bags under the eyes; the phony smile, the hand waving gesture, gesture, gesture . . . he knows he is proffering something questionable. His whole body language says don't look too closely at me, nor look directly into my eyes . . . believe the smear I am putting up.

As noted above by others, he is not to be trusted. And that too is my finding as a result of personal dealings with him. He is not honest as to what he is doing, why, or how he does it.

Sad, but that is the way it is.

R

I watched the entire Dexter Video. We have never met, and I am unaware of any sh*t storm he is said to be involved in here.

I gleaned one thing that we agree on: It is not necessary to turn a client away simply because of his background in other practices or ingested drugs. That runs in stark contrast to CoS rules, and that appeals to me, authoritarian bastards that they are.

As for type of processing and how much, that's a case by case call on someone standing on shaky ground. Personally, I can enjoy foregoing the liability. In other words, not my problem. Callous, I know. But my time is important to me these days so I spend it wisely.

A chat in a quiet place over a cup of coffee can work wonders with absolute minimum liability--if one does not present themselves as an "expert" whatever. Running processes, intensive hours, and/or using a meter, or giving the impression of certain results suggests a depth of involvement that could lead to liability for both unlicensed practitioner and client.

Take an interest in someone. Listen. It's a great procedure.

 

[Terril park]

"Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
Apparently more than one med is involved and maybe several non psychiatric ones."

You just said above that you don't know the particulars. Is this a guess on your part?

In Dexters video from the 18 min point he refers to medications
plural several times. I inferred from that more than 1 med is involved. This may be a wrong inference.

 

[RogerB]

I watched the entire Dexter Video. We have never met, and I am unaware of any sh*t storm he is said to be involved in here.

I gleaned one thing that we agree on: It is not necessary to turn a client away simply because of his background in other practices or ingested drugs. That runs in stark contrast to CoS rules, and that appeals to me, authoritarian bastards that they are.

As for type of processing and how much, that's a case by case call on someone standing on shaky ground. Personally, I can enjoy foregoing the liability. In other words, not my problem. Callous, I know. But my time is important to me these days so I spend it wisely.

A chat in a quiet place over a cup of coffee can work wonders with absolute minimum liability--if one does not present themselves as an "expert" whatever. Running processes, intensive hours, and/or using a meter, or giving the impression of certain results suggests a depth of involvement that could lead to liability for both unlicensed practitioner and client.

Take an interest in someone. Listen. It's a great procedure.

Actually, I was and am in accord with your original "agree with" on Dex's post . . . and by that, what I perceived you are in accord with are the points that, as Dex said, we should all work together and we should seek help folks in whatever way we can, just as you write above.

R

 

[Veda]

With all this about medications, etc., it's beginning to sound like Dexter is practicing medicine without a license. On that note, does he have any credentials of any kind, other than his Scientology certs? What does Dexter charge per hour for his services? When he fills out his taxes (assuming he pays taxes) what does he list as his occupation?

Obviously, the purpose of the video is to obtain paying clients who might, otherwise, think they were excluded from Scientology (or Scientology like) services. However, by posting it, he may be opening a Pandora's box for himself.

 

[Anonycat]

Thanks!

I fully get your point.

But after further consideration, it seems medically sound to me that a doctor would permit an unlicensed spiritual counselor to prescribe medication at whatever intervals and dosages they felt appropriate. As long as that counselor had successfully completed courses written by a sci fi writer.

You are funny, as always! 8 years in a University getting your doctorate and in real life rotations, as opposed to some years in a mindfuck cult. Who should they trust with their well being?