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FROM BLOWNFORGOOD - HOW TO GET FAMILY OUT OF INT

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Even OSA people would be welcome here, if they would just talk to us straight up and stop playing their sad and sick little fuckwit sockpuppet games.

The Sneakster

Oh c'mon. Momma needs a new chewtoy!

I don't think that one has lost its squeaky goodness yet.

(with a tip o' the hat and props to Barbz)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Are you all sure that the tough treatment of the Sea Org doesn't do people any good?

Are you sure that you are all not being a little overly sympathetic?

Are you sure that the firm approach of the Sea Org does not result in toughening folk up---making men out of mice, and the like?

Are you sure that you don't want the Sea Org to be turned into a pansy's paradise run by a bunch of limp-wristed fluffcakes?


Surely with the Sea Org having the job to do that they have, you can see that they need folks in it that are as hard as nails, for gawd sake!



Eamonn

Would you say the same for the Christianity of Middle Ages?

.
 

everfree

Patron Meritorious
Would you say the same for the Christianity of Middle Ages?

Excellent point. Religion can and has done a lot of good in the world, it has also done a lot of bad.

It seems that the point where it goes downhill is when the true believers decide that their grand end justifies hurting people, that the group goal is bigger than the individuals involved so they can justly be discarded or sacrificed -- a point that CofS long passed, if there was ever a time that it hadn't.
 

everfree

Patron Meritorious
Surely with the Sea Org having the job to do that they have, you can see that they need folks in it that are as hard as nails, for gawd sake!

When I joined CofS staff, it was not my plan to teach people to be "hard as nails", it was to help them live good lives and attain happiness. It was not to teach them how to "use their anger" to get things done by giving SRAs, it was to enable them to use good communication to solve their problems. It was to end poverty on earth, not sit and watch my fellow staff members go hungry and have to live on someone's porch. It was to promote the idea of "loving and helping children", not how to enforce abortions.

I think that if you want a group that can do those things you have to teach them how to be really really good at loving children, how to handle people with communication really really well, etc -- not how to be hard as nails.
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Are you all sure that the tough treatment of the Sea Org doesn't do people any good?

Are you sure that you are all not being a little overly sympathetic?

Are you sure that the firm approach of the Sea Org does not result in toughening folk up---making men out of mice, and the like?

Are you sure that you don't want the Sea Org to be turned into a pansy's paradise run by a bunch of limp-wristed fluffcakes?


Surely with the Sea Org having the job to do that they have, you can see that they need folks in it that are as hard as nails, for gawd sake!



Eamonn

Perhaps you would have gone far in Germany Circa 1933-45. Sounds
like a good description of the Shutz Staffel ("SS"). There were opportunities
for those young Germans "hard as nails"...pick your branch; Waffen SS,
Gestapo, Concentration Camp guard.
Well, maybe the SS wasn't quite as hard as nails as the Sea Org..
The SS member got leave to go home now and then and didn't have
to "disconnect" from home and hearth.
 
Where Is The Evidence?

Go back and re-read post #49 and your post #50 and then please answer my question again.

Thanks,

Krysti


Krysti,

This posting at #49 by some anonymous person called 'BTs2Free', and posted here by another anonymous person called 'Lulu Belle' is not evidence. Any half-decent German intelligence officer could write this up in an afternoon between mugs of Warsteiner.



Eamonn
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, Eamonn,

It either happened or it didn't. Person after person has described it and some HAVE given their EXACT NAMES, AND WHEN IT HAPPENED.

Chuck Beatty is such a one.

So is Astra Woodcraft

I think Arnie Lerma, as well.

Now, please don't tell me that without a time machine so that you can witness it yourself, it's not proof.

If dozens and dozens of people who do not know each other - some of whom I've personally met or corresponded with- are describing similar events, it doesn't take a time machine or rocket scientist or a bunch of double blind studies to know that somethin's up.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
There is a big difference between not wanting something to be a pansy's paradise and having it be abusive.

My husband is an Army veteran, as was my Dad, my husband's Dad, my husband's Mom, my cousin and several men and women I've known over the years. One person I knew was a Cadet at West Point and said that was even tougher than the "regular army".

They've all assured me in their own way that the military was anything but a pansy's paradise.

And you know what? Sometimes it was pretty bad, but they had medical benefits, they made more than minimum wage, their CO's didn't beat them up (you have to go back a couple hundred years or more for that sort of thing), etc.

Beating people up, starving them, going against policy and telling them they cannot leave, tearing up families- that's not trying to avoid a pansy whatsis- that's a cultic mindset where it's ok to harm people as long as the people in charge can still prance around in thousand dollar suits evading all this crappy treatment.

There was a former Nazi who after WWII started a cult in Germany. It got too hot for them there, so to speak- so they went to S America. He actually put the Auschwitz slogan "arbeit macht free" on his camp there.

As time went on, there was less and less religion (it was a Christian cult supposedly) and nothing but work. People who tried to leave were captured and beaten.

But I'm sure they used the same justifications you're using now re the SO.
 
Chuck Beatty is such a one.



This Chuck Beatty?
(referred to in url link below)



Christian Markert


"On June 20, 2007, a press conference was held in the Berlin Parliament House involving speakers Ursula Caberta, Thomas Gandow, and Mr. Schiemann, member of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (German domestic intelligence).

"A surprise guest was a man who claimed to be a former long-time Scientologist from the Church of Scientology of Buffalo, New York – Christian Markert. Markert was touted as having information about internal Church matters..."

Read the story



Eamonn
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Ok, enough already.

Eamonn, if you want to contribute to this board you are welcome to.

Trolling on the other hand is not appreciated.

Continuing to link to RFW is also not appreciated. This site rates very well on google and I'll not assist RFW rankings by linking to it.

I'm removing your links.

Stay around if you want to contribute. If you are just going to troll consider yourself skating on very thin ice
 
Eamonn, you are trying awfully hard to send people to the OSA controlled critic D.A. site, "Religious Freedom Watch".

That is generally taken around here as more than sufficient proof that yourself or your account are under OSA Control and only serving as part of an operation aimed at discrediting this forum, its contents and its posters.

The Sneakster


I am here of my own undertaking and have no interest in discrediting anyone.

I just thought this was a place where people were free to engage in critical thinking and make their own mind up about things.

I'm sorry if I have broken the rule that only links to websites which show the Church of Scientology in a bad light are permitted to be posted.



Eamonn
 

duddins

Patron Meritorious
Having been a scientologist for 25 years with part of that time in the SO, it is my current conviction that the purpose of the Sea Org is not to savage the planet or any other noble cause, but the abuse of people by force and deceit, forcing them into a sick dramatization game.

I've been reasonable in the past, thinking that even if the Church was sick, it was nonetheless the only hope for a sane planet. It is not, I didn't had all the data. I didn't looked with my own eyes.

And so you are. Wake up and start looking at the real poroducts of our church.

Have you read how David Mayo has been handled? How Paulette Cooper has been framed? How MSH has been dealt with? If a little cult like Scio can do such things with the power of only 50.000 unaware followers, what we could expect when (and if) it will have taken over the world?

There is no justification for the crimes and hate crimes done by the Co$ against David Mayo, Mary Sue Hubbard,....................
M

I hope noone minds me going back to the main theme of this thread.
I want to say that this is some amazing information. Not only is it revealing, it is vital that this infornation be made available to as many as can possibly view it.

The thread was discussing the oppression at the top most level of the church, and situations that indicate that there are likely to exist severe violations of basic human rights. There are so many questions that need to be asked about this situation.

By the way, my name was on that list that MarkWI posted. So are some of my friends. It is the list of individuals considered FAIR GAME by the Church Of Scientology. It is the list that is a roster of the people that could not take the oppression and left. (as Ozzie said from the 90s) It is the list of people that were to be considered FAIR GAME. In other words if they were to ever decide to speak out against the church......retaliation would be justified. In other words..."shut up or you will pay for it."

God knows it kept me quiet for 20 years.

Before I go too much furher I know that several amoung us give a hats off to Chuck Beatty. He is one person amoung us that is brave enough to stand up to them.

Some of the things I am reading here and on BFGs earlier threads makes me sick. Mostly because having been in the SO, and because many of my memories of similar kinds of oppression have been....well oppressed. I chose to forget them, and so have.

Many of us have our own experiences, and to many of us that have been in the SO, (if you heed the posts) this is the real stuff. THIS IS REAL. Whether you understand how a person could allow themselves to become part of such a thing or not, it is still real.

Thank Emma for this message board. We can have dialog and try to help each other understand.

I understand that SO members are victims of brain-washing. Brain-washing Set in, layer upon layer, upon layer, year after year after year. Set in by the nature of the system, and the tech.

Part of the brain-washing is the environment of total dependancy. SO members are dependent upon the organization for all needs. Many have children and spouses in the mix.... Some may not stand up against it because they feel they have too much to loose.

Part of the situation is that many of these individuals now suffering are guilty of the same crimes DM is guilty of. Many of then were no doubt proud to have been so close to the top....Many have oppressed others. They know well the consequences of going against DM, because they have been party to it themselves.

Part of the situations is a problem that seems to have no resolution, but to give in. What do you do? Your entire family...your children are in another building, or in another city being taken care of by someone else. Your husband or wife is also in the organization....they may not feel the way you do. Do you want to also give up your marriage? Your children? All your friends? If you did leave, or could leave...where would you go. You have no experience on the outside....nowhere to go, noone to turn to. "This is all I know..."

There have been so many incredible postings here. It hurts my heart to read what I am reading.

But the word is getting out. Something can be done. A solution will be attained someday. But when? Big questions abound. People need to keep discussing it, without bullshit distractions designed to take our attention off of it.

I for one, wonder why our government tolerates the SO. What is going on in the SO makes WACO look like a true heaven on Earth. Yet, our government did not tolerate WACo. The government looses millions in taxes. They have no doublt heard horror stories. Why does it tolorate the SO? Who benefits?

Imagine what they could find in a raid?

There, I rambled...sorry

Love to all,
Duddins
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I'm sorry if I have broken the rule that only links to websites which show the Church of Scientology in a bad light are permitted to be posted.

That's not true, as you know.

RFW is a hate-fuelled Black PR campaign. Total hypocrisy.
What tone-level is it that forwards entheta?
 
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