FROM BLOWNFORGOOD - HOW TO GET FAMILY OUT OF INT

[alex]

Exactly. Anyone who can read can see evidence all over the internet. How you choose to interpret that evidence is up to you!

Yes exactly.

I read recently about star babies, children interbred with aliens.

http://www.drboylan.com/index.html

I am a great believer in the value and wealth of information on the internet.

Thank GOD for google!

I have found though, in my years working at a major newspaper, that information undergoes some degree of interpretation, usually unintentionally in the course of it being relayed, that increases the need for examination.

I assume that this holds true for the internet.



alex

 

[alex]

Hmm.

You are whining about "free speech" I noticed. So I thought I might address that very point.

You claim that you are being put upon by having your links pulled. Yet you don't show that the site you are linking to supports freedom of speech. That site (RFW) does not contain links to its opponents sites, so why are you linking to it if you are such a proponent of Free Speech?

Or is it the case that you are trying to cloak yourself in a virtuous pose of supporting freedom of speech when, in fact, you support the Church of Scientology's vicious and hate filled campaign against that very principle?

It is funny to watch, you - the Church of Scientology and it's leprous supporters - are so divorced from reality that you fail to realize that most people can see through your attempts to try and disguise what you are truly about.

It is obvious that you support the wholesale ad hominem attacks that are the only content of the website you link to. That would mean that you do not care to engage in discussion but merely wish to try and shut people up.

You, sir, are a tosspot and a wanker. I am kind of surprised that your presence in Australia does not cause the entire continent to heave in revulsion in an attempt to expel the carrion that you represent.

You support people who are repugnant in the extreme.

FOAD, toad.

Funny mick.

Do you allow Church terminals to post their opinions on your site?

Or do you moderate them off.

Any links to scientology.org on

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/messages ?

What exactly is free speech? Speech you agree with?

Is not the expression "fuck off and die", vicious and hatefull? Even if expressed to a toad?

alex

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Yes exactly.

I read recently about star babies, children interbred with aliens.

http://www.drboylan.com/index.html

I am a great believer in the value and wealth of information on the internet.

Thank GOD for google!

I have found though, in my years working at a major newspaper, that information undergoes some degree of interpretation, usually unintentionally in the course of it being relayed, that increases the need for examination.

I assume that this holds true for the internet.



alex

Dr. Boylan told me personally that he had an implant stuck up his sinus passage during his "abduction". Ever since then he has been a different person. I wouldn't listen to anyone who has had an electronic device implanted in his nose. I also told him I did not like the idea of being absorbed into the great cosmogod he preaches. He told me that after the "revolution" I would. Now, where have I heard that before?

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

What was this post in response to, Eamonn?

Someone posted about being held against their will and then you posted the above.

First, it seemed you were saying it is justified to hold people against their will to make them "tough", make "men out of mice", make sure the Sea Org isn't turned into a "pansy's paradise run by a bunch of limp-wristed fluffcakes", make folks "hard as nails".

Then, when asked if you would think it was okay if it happened to you, you wanted to know where the evidence was?

Which is it? Do you believe it is justified that people are held against their will or do you believe it doesn't happen?

Ron answered that question very well himself. I can't give you an exact quote, and he was talking about the high ideals of the USA as an example. He basically said that the higher the ideals an entity holds onto and promotes to broad public the more the broad public will expect them to uphold those ideals and the harder they will get hit when they fail those ideals.

CofS promotes itself very idyllically but in practice operates out of a ditch. Who here (and I also address any current church goers lurking on this board) would have signed up with the SO or CofS if they had known that the COB plays musical chairs with his executives, and is dictated to by his lawyers?

Who here would have walked within 10 feet of an Org if they had known that staff members get paid below minimum wage, with no benefits whatsoever.

Who here would have sent their child to Scientology if they had had prior knowledge garnered from the internet?

 

[Zinjifar]

Funny mick.

Do you allow Church terminals to post their opinions on your site?

Or do you moderate them off.

Any links to scientology.org on

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/messages ?

What exactly is free speech? Speech you agree with?

Is not the expression "fuck off and die", vicious and hatefull? Even if expressed to a toad?

alex

To start with, 'fuck off and die' is just free-speech social interaction; hardly vicious and hateful.

Second; 'Church terminals' per *dogma* and hat are not 'expressing their opinion', but expressing a 'Church' opinion (when they're not lying,) which may match their own, but, that's pretty much irrelevant. When it's just about expressing that 'opinion', even when it's transparent propaganda, it probably fits into some version of 'free speech', but, it deserves no more respct than any other deliberately spewed eyewash.

But, 'Church terminals', while they may express an opinion, which probably deserves free-speech protection, *also* do much more. Such as:

Deliberate obfuscation and disinformation; deliberate attack on those present or others; deliberate sabotage of *other's* right to free expression, such as making unpleasant and repulsive stenches of themselves in a deliberate attempt to drive *other* people away from their own rights to freedom of expression.

And, they may be engaged in deliberate 'intel' activity to gather information to be used in further and wider-ranging attacks on those so rash as to express their own opinions.

'Church' operatives do not operate in a vacuum; they operate as weapons in a deliberate war by the 'Church' on anything *not* the 'Church'.

However urbane and polite they may be at any time.

Eamonn is neither of those, but, he's not trying to be, and, there is *no* right to attempt to destroy other's right to freedom of expression under the guise of freedom of expression.

Since the 'Church' can gather intel here without ever participating, that's not really an issue here on ESMB (while it would be in some other more limited forum.)

Whether eamonn (or others) are kicked off here is ultimately up to the board moderator, who has shown unreasonable and admirable restraint so far.

Zinj

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

To start with, 'fuck off and die' is just free-speech social interaction; hardly vicious and hateful.

Second; 'Church terminals' per *dogma* and hat are not 'expressing their opinion', but expressing a 'Church' opinion (when they're not lying,) which may match their own, but, that's pretty much irrelevant. When it's just about expressing that 'opinion', even when it's transparent propaganda, it probably fits into some version of 'free speech', but, it deserves no more respct than any other deliberately spewed eyewash.

But, 'Church terminals', while they may express an opinion, which probably deserves free-speech protection, *also* do much more. Such as:

Deliberate obfuscation and disinformation; deliberate attack on those present or others; deliberate sabotage of *other's* right to free expression, such as making unpleasant and repulsive stenches of themselves in a deliberate attempt to drive *other* people away from their own rights to freedom of expression.

And, they may be engaged in deliberate 'intel' activity to gather information to be used in further and wider-ranging attacks on those so rash as to express their own opinions.

'Church' operatives do not operate in a vacuum; they operate as weapons in a deliberate war by the 'Church' on anything *not* the 'Church'.

However urbane and polite they may be at any time.

Eamonn is neither of those, but, he's not trying to be, and, there is *no* right to attempt to destroy other's right to freedom of expression under the guise of freedom of expression.

Since the 'Church' can gather intel here without ever participating, that's not really an issue here on ESMB (while it would be in some other more limited forum.)

Whether eamonn (or others) are kicked off here is ultimately up to the board moderator, who has shown unreasonable and admirable restraint so far.

Zinj

It is because of her humorous tolerance that I read this board more than any other FZ board.

 

[Alanzo]

I would say that people are being held....with their will.

If you get that whole gestalt.

alex

Yes, I do.

They are being held with their will, against their own self-interests.

Their own will has been turned against their own self-interests by the teachings they have adopted.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=277658&highlight=#277658


In the last few months, I have perfected several surefire ways to get staff off of the Int Base. I have distilled all of these actions into one complete list.

So far I have managed to get 3 people from the Int base from outside the Int Base using these methods.

The best thing about the Int base is that they are VERY predictable and they have an INSANE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION LEAKS. All items I have tried, I have been able to get feedback from the Base and tweak until perfect.

The other thing is that most of the government or city offices you will contact are relatively small and multiple cases of missing persons at one facility strikes a chord there. They will be more willing to assist you knowing that there are similar cases and that you are not related to the other callers in anyway.

Considering all these points, we can get people out one by one. Here is what you can do:


1. Call the Int Base and ask for the person you are trying to reach.
323-960-3569 – if you get a machine - leave a message. The longer the better.


2. Write to the person and ask them to phone you and tell you where they are. Ensure to ask about whether or not they are happy or being held against their will. Keep a copy of the letter.

Attn: (Name of Missing Person)
19625 Gilman Springs Rd
Gilman Hot Springs, CA 92583-2100


3. Call the Int Base again and ask for the person you are trying to reach.
323-960-3569 – if you get a machine - leave a message. The longer the better.


4. Write to the person again and ask them to phone you and tell you where they are. Ensure to ask about whether or not they are happy or being held against their will. Keep a copy of the letter.


5. Call the Int Base again and ask for the person you are trying to reach.


6. If after all of the above, you have not spoken with the person and still intend to get a hold of them, go to Step 7


7. Call the local Hemet Sheriff and report that you have a relative, friend or acquaintance that has gone missing and you suspect that this person is at the Int Base being held against their will. Explain to them that you have written to them multiple times as well as phoned and even though you know the person is there, you cannot get a hold of them. Let them know that you are aware that their mail is being opened & read and that their phone calls out are being limited and when they are able to call out someone is on the other end listening in.

HEMET POLICE DEPARTMENT
450 E. Latham Street
Hemet, CA 92543
Phone: (951) 765-2400

email: [email protected]


8. If they ask you to file a report, do so.


9. Call the local San Jacinto Sheriff and report that you have a relative, friend or acquaintance that has gone missing and you suspect that this person is at the Int Base being held against their will. Explain to them that you have written to them multiple times as well as phoned and even though you know the person is there, you cannot get a hold of them. Let them know that you are aware that their mail is being opened & read and that their phone calls out are being limited and when they are able to call out someone is on the other end listening in.


City of San Jacinto Police Department
160 West Sixth Street
San Jacinto, CA 92583
951.654.2702


10. If they ask you to file a report, do so.


11. Call the local FBI office and report that you have a relative, friend or acquaintance that has gone missing and you suspect that this person is at the Int Base being held against their will. Explain to them that you have written to them multiple times as well as phoned and even though you know the person is there, you cannot get a hold of them. Let them know that you are aware that their mail is being opened & read and that their phone calls out are being limited and when they are able to call out someone is on the other end listening in.



FBI
Riverside Resident Agency
P.O. Box 5346
Riverside, CA 92517
or
3480 Vine Street
Suite 200
Riverside, CA 92507
(909)-686-0335



12. If they ask you to file a report, do so.


13. Write to your local Congressman and report that you have a relative, friend or acquaintance that has gone missing and you suspect that this person is at the Int Base being held against their will. Explain to them that you have written to them multiple times as well as phoned and even though you know the person is there, you cannot get a hold of them. Let them know that you are aware that their mail is being opened & read and that their phone calls out are being limited and when they are able to call out someone is on the other end listening in.

http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml



14. Call the Int Base again and inform them that you have done all of the above steps. Take the time to explain in detail that you have done all of the above steps and you will continue to write to people and contact the local authorities until they produce your relative or family member. Make sure that you tell them that you have filed verbal and written reports with several law enforcement agencies, federal authorities and that you intend to find your relative or friend. Explain to them that you have written to them multiple times as well as phoned and even though you know the person is there, you cannot get a hold of them. Let them know that you are aware that their mail is being opened & read and that their phone calls out are being limited and when they are able to call out someone is on the other end listening in.


Phone: 323-960-3569


Here is the best part, due to all of the attention that you have drawn to this staff member, they are now a “threat” to the Int Base AND THE CHURCH ITSELF!!!! Believe it or not, by your above actions, you have now caused them to NOT BE QUALIFIED TO BE AT THE INT BASE! They have to be gotten rid of – and quickly. They WILL BE OFFLOADED FROM THE INT BASE and sent to live somewhere well away from the Int base.


If you have created enough of a stir, they will also NOT BE ALLOWED TO ENTER A LOCAL SCIENTOLOGY CHURCH or attend Church services in any way. They are not only PTS now, but a legal threat to have at a Church.


This same exact process can be used at any level of the Church and you will be able to get any staff member you want expelled from the Church and back into your family again!


“How will they get a hold of me?” you ask.


Buy a domain name that is their name. Example: www.marcyager.com
Simply list your email or contact info on the site and once they are out and get on the Internet, they will do the thing that every church staff member does once they get out and get on the Internet, they will Google themselves and end up on a site that is their name.


Make sure that every member of your family anywhere has all of your latest contact info. Make sure that you let all of them know that if they get any calls from the person you are trying to get a hold of that you need to know.


If you have other family that are also trying to get this person out, have them do all of the above steps as well. Multiple people doing the same thing will make the process go faster, much faster.


Or you can post their name on Operation Clambake and tell them to email you, or, or, or. One way or another, the person is going to know that you have been trying to get a hold of them and once they are out, chances are that they will contact you in some way.


As people leave or blow from the Int Base, the list will be updated with the latest blows or offloads.
If you see your family member on the list and see that they are out, you can start trying to track them down outside of the Church. In most cases they will at least contact some family members with their new freedom and you will be able to get in touch with them.


This works every time. It takes persistence and dedication. If you want to save this person from additional years of “musical chairs” you will take the time to let people know you think they are being held there against their will.


With more and more reports being filed and local law enforcement being contacted regarding these people, they will have no choice but to let these people go and get them off of the premises.


Look at it this way, once they are offloaded from the church, you will have saved them from years of pain and heartache and gotten them worlds closer to living their life without the fear, torture and constant stress. They will have you to thank for getting them there and THEY WILL THANK YOU!


Try it, it works.


Until next time…
BFG

BFG, has anyone followed through on your plan and reported back to you about it?

 

[TheSneakster]

not important

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Yes, I do.

They are being held with their will, against their own self-interests.

Their own will has been turned against their own self-interests by the teachings they have adopted.

Okay, so they got themselves into a theta vs ego trap. Who's going to take the credit for it? In my viewpoint the man who did it to himself has to come clean and acknowledge that, but sorry will be the man who provoked that being into slapping on the chains. Isn't that why society has tougher penalties for drug dealers than for the people who buy their liar drugs?

 

[Emma]

Whether eamonn (or others) are kicked off here is ultimately up to the board moderator, who has shown unreasonable and admirable restraint so far.

Zinj

Eamonn and anyone else can stay around as long as they like providing they don't cross some hard to define line in the sand that I've drawn. I wish I could articulate what that line is exactly.

I'm happy for anyone to present their arguments as to why "scientology works" providing they understand that they will be met with disagreement and solid argument as to why it doesn't. This is after all, an "EX" (whatever that means) board.

OSA dudes can even post here if they were *able* to actually engage in some kind of intelligent debate.

What I won't accept is anyone on a mission, whether official or otherwise, to troll, make guilty or run some black op on those who have made their decision to leave the CoS. That includes posting links to CoS DA websites. Mainly because I don't want this board assisting those sites in any way in google rankings.

Eamonn can decide whether he really wants to engage people here and debate the virtues of Scientology. I fear he doesn't want to, or can't do that yet as it would mean opening his eyes for real and seeing things he doesn't want to see. However, many others have been in his situation and have succeeded in breaking through somehow. I do hold out a glimmer of hope for him and will continue to be tolerant until he again crosses that undefined line.

 

[Alanzo]

Okay, so they got themselves into a theta vs ego trap. Who's going to take the credit for it? In my viewpoint the man who did it to himself has to come clean and acknowledge that, but sorry will be the man who provoked that being into slapping on the chains. Isn't that why society has tougher penalties for drug dealers than for the people who buy their liar drugs?

Actually, with Scientology, they were tricked into it.

If I had known what Scientology really believed and what it really did, I would have never joined.

I had to be tricked and lied to to get me to join.

So I guess I was Fair Game even then.

 

[duddins]

I would agree that many are being held using their *damaged* will. But, there are almost certainly any number being held against their will, although, a percentage of those will not have expressed that will, due to very real fear of retaliation.

Zinj

Thanks Zinj.....thanks for getting back to the heart of the matter.

 

[duddins]

Thanks Alanzo. Re: the Gov, I just don't get it. I wonder where the connection lies.

I will keep on hoping that as the stories get out, more and more people will speak up. More and more will come out......there is power in numbers.

By the way, in a court of law, 1st hand witness can result in conviction of a crime. If I see a murder, and can account the details, my testimony could be damaging to a defendant. I dont need a video, or photos. So quite frankly, I don't get all the patter about proof. It is irrelevent.

Our history books are filled with first hand witness of events. Many of the events in concentration camps during WWII were accounted to us by eye witnessess.

And guess what? There are always the AHoles that will cry....there is no proof so it just didn't happen.

I appreciate you!

Bernadette
(AKA duddins)

Good point, Dudins.

The sole founding purpose of the US federal government was to protect peoples' rights. I think we have lost sight of that in the last few years.

And so groups like the Church of Scientology are just fine.

Excellent post.

I'm glad you are here.

 

[alex]

To start with, 'fuck off and die' is just free-speech social interaction; hardly vicious and hateful.

Second; 'Church terminals' per *dogma* and hat are not 'expressing their opinion', but expressing a 'Church' opinion (when they're not lying,) which may match their own, but, that's pretty much irrelevant. When it's just about expressing that 'opinion', even when it's transparent propaganda, it probably fits into some version of 'free speech', but, it deserves no more respct than any other deliberately spewed eyewash.

But, 'Church terminals', while they may express an opinion, which probably deserves free-speech protection, *also* do much more. Such as:

Deliberate obfuscation and disinformation; deliberate attack on those present or others; deliberate sabotage of *other's* right to free expression, such as making unpleasant and repulsive stenches of themselves in a deliberate attempt to drive *other* people away from their own rights to freedom of expression.

And, they may be engaged in deliberate 'intel' activity to gather information to be used in further and wider-ranging attacks on those so rash as to express their own opinions.

'Church' operatives do not operate in a vacuum; they operate as weapons in a deliberate war by the 'Church' on anything *not* the 'Church'.

However urbane and polite they may be at any time.

Eamonn is neither of those, but, he's not trying to be, and, there is *no* right to attempt to destroy other's right to freedom of expression under the guise of freedom of expression.

Since the 'Church' can gather intel here without ever participating, that's not really an issue here on ESMB (while it would be in some other more limited forum.)

Whether eamonn (or others) are kicked off here is ultimately up to the board moderator, who has shown unreasonable and admirable restraint so far.

Zinj

Perhaps in Eamonn I see similarities with myself.

He certainly does have some church centric expressed beliefs, but your instant insistance that he is OSA has a very familiar ring to it.

You have asserted that about me for years now. Yet other than being an asshole, what have I done to ruin lives of others?

Yes I have "shouted down" others in a crowded and racous newsgroup, and stabbed others beliefs with my intellect. But you are making the same kind of claim that the church does: That some words should not be heard.

Let Eamonn make a fool of himself, or make points from his viewpoint, or engage in discussion and have his understanding expanded.

I haven't seen much ad hominem from him, just viewpoints that dont fit well in the status quo.

Emma says no rfw links....well ok, but Im sure we've all seen it. Anyone impressed? Anyone take it for anything other than overly dramatic dead agenting?

I just see mirror image behaviour of the churchs, in its opponents.

Cant talk, shouldnt look, no discussion, you're not welcome here because WE already know what you are going to say and we dont like it.

That is not what I like from either side.

alex

 

[alex]

Dr. Boylan told me personally that he had an implant stuck up his sinus passage during his "abduction". Ever since then he has been a different person. I wouldn't listen to anyone who has had an electronic device implanted in his nose. I also told him I did not like the idea of being absorbed into the great cosmogod he preaches. He told me that after the "revolution" I would. Now, where have I heard that before?

But after all the material you read on the internet about star babies how could you disagree?

The evidence is widespread.

He is not some wacky ufo cult, he is a Doctor for gods sake.

Science was involved.

The evidence is widespread.


alex

 

[alex]

If someone kidnapped you and told you if you tried to leave they would kill your family, would you consider you were being held against your will - or with your will?

Sorry, as a non dualistic existentialist I would be required by belief to say both, neither, yes, no, and maybe (4 flavors of maybe).

My point was that it is their belief not guns that hold them.

The guns are props in the moulding of belief maybe.

But the primary bar is the beliefs of those in the hall.

alex

 

[Eamonn Gosney]

Whenever I think about being held against one's will, what comes into my mind are those people who are held prisoners in mental wards and forced to undergo brutalizing treatments.



Eamonn

 

[alex]

Actually, with Scientology, they were tricked into it.

If I had known what Scientology really believed and what it really did, I would have never joined.

I had to be tricked and lied to to get me to join.

So I guess I was Fair Game even then.

Funny, not ha ha, but ironically that you say that.

I was reading your story, and noted many similarities to how I started scientology, drugs, "mission love", gung ho congnitive fanaticism....

Yet I knew the moment I saw scientololgy that it was wrapped in PR and Hype.

I have never felt lied to.

Maybe that is why it never broke my heart and betrayed me as it has so many others....

alex

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Whenever I think about being held against one's will, what comes into my mind are those people who are held prisoners in mental wards and forced to undergo brutalizing treatments.



Eamonn

And what if someone says they want to leave and is told they cannot? What if they try to leave and someone drags him or her back?

It's not just psych wards that do that.