Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Only some exes. Some (not all, of course) of the stupidest fucking people I ever knew were exes. Truly.
From One Foot Out
- Thread starter thetanic
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Only some exes. Some (not all, of course) of the stupidest fucking people I ever knew were exes. Truly.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Posting a thread on FB is inviting discussion on FB. It does not, of course, constitute invitation to discussion on ESMB.
Free Being Me
Crusader
very true but the statement was posted here.
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Gottabrain
Guest
Thanks, Toad. And good point.
I can't say I've said anything "group sensitive" to Mike Laws that I didn't want relayed to M Rathbun. The worst that would have happened if he relayed what I said to him to MR is I would have felt somewhat embarassed, and hey, I can live with that, I've been embarassed before. But it didn't happen. That doesn't mean MIke Laws is one of my best friends, that doesn't mean I am saying he would never relay anything of any nature under any circumstances. I don't know him THAT well. There are few I would know and trust THAT well.
But even with a very trusted friend, I would just be more cautious for a bit if she/he thought someone was OSA and wait it out. The truth usually finds its way forward eventually.
There are degrees of trust and trustworthiness. MR has had a few people in his group that later went "back to the Church" that had maybe not been out at all. I'm sure the FZ has had those too. And the "Newly Outs" tend to still have Scn connections for a while, too.
G
Gottabrain
Guest
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Not by Dexter, it wasn't.
Free Being Me
Crusader
Yes, that's true, good point.
G
Gottabrain
Guest
True, Fluffy. Fix'd it.
Cherished
Silver Meritorious Patron
An operation was run against me a few months ago. It involved manufacturing false images that appeared to be private messages from me to Marty on his blog leaking the ip addresses of Anons. That is, the "dox" were fakes.
I'm very thankful that Anons know me well enough to know I would never do that.
I'm interested that the allegation against me, like that against Mike Laws, hinged on a connection with Marty Rathbun. The op against me was an attempt to use the mistrust that people have for MR to destroy my credibility with Anons and exes.
It must really terrify David Miscavige that Exes, Anons and Indies have at least one major goal in common - the end of his reign of bullying.
I'm very thankful that Anons know me well enough to know I would never do that.
I'm interested that the allegation against me, like that against Mike Laws, hinged on a connection with Marty Rathbun. The op against me was an attempt to use the mistrust that people have for MR to destroy my credibility with Anons and exes.
It must really terrify David Miscavige that Exes, Anons and Indies have at least one major goal in common - the end of his reign of bullying.
G
Gottabrain
Guest
I remember that, Cherished. And after the computer savvy Anons went through everything, it was proved a fabrication and you were innocent.
Accusations of "OSA" and disloyalty within our ranks is probably the most widespread method the Cult uses to create or widen divisions between us.
You're right, it must drive them nuts that we can have such a variety of us and all get along and agree to fight the abuses. So many thousands of hours spent on this crap, and we always overcome it anyway and still go on fighting his reign of terror as a team.
Accusations of "OSA" and disloyalty within our ranks is probably the most widespread method the Cult uses to create or widen divisions between us.
You're right, it must drive them nuts that we can have such a variety of us and all get along and agree to fight the abuses. So many thousands of hours spent on this crap, and we always overcome it anyway and still go on fighting his reign of terror as a team.
Free Being Me
Crusader
I've never had an op run against me so I can't speak from personal experience. I am glad your friends discredited the source. I hope Slappy and his cohorts are scared, uncertain and desperate. $ci has built in foot bullets and the added emotional toll will cause more misjudgments.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
DOX OR GTFO
Trusting what someone says about another is not licence to publish word-of-mouth information. Sure, believe it, act upon it in your personal dealings with others, but telling the whole world? Nah. Trust but verify.
From where I sit today, the whole thing looks like an internecine marketing battle amongst those awaiting to gorge upon the expected banquet of carrion once the cult collapses. Like the battle between Coke and Pepsi, we seem to have the Independents on one side and the Free Zoners on the other each offering their own flavour KoolAid. Maybe OSA is stirring it all up - the thing is, there are no dox to confirm the situation either way.
Overall, this episode is just yet another example of why *everyone* should stay away from *any* form of Scientology all together. Keep it up.
Trusting what someone says about another is not licence to publish word-of-mouth information. Sure, believe it, act upon it in your personal dealings with others, but telling the whole world? Nah. Trust but verify.
From where I sit today, the whole thing looks like an internecine marketing battle amongst those awaiting to gorge upon the expected banquet of carrion once the cult collapses. Like the battle between Coke and Pepsi, we seem to have the Independents on one side and the Free Zoners on the other each offering their own flavour KoolAid. Maybe OSA is stirring it all up - the thing is, there are no dox to confirm the situation either way.
Overall, this episode is just yet another example of why *everyone* should stay away from *any* form of Scientology all together. Keep it up.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Dex,
I love you, mate, but sooner or later you're going to have to face up to the fact that you got royally played by OSA (as did many others).
I predict that, at some time in the not-too-distant future, the "good friend" of your good friend is going to wake up and get BOTH feet out.
When he does, he's going to confess to one of two things;
(a) that he knowingly fed false information to your good friend because, at the time, it seemed like it was the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, or
(b) that he was fooled by another into unknowingly feeding false information to your good friend because, at the time, it seemed like it was the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.
You know, or should know, how the CofS works. You know what the Policy states and how rigidly it is applied.
Ask your good friend about what actual motives this "good friend" might possibly have for maintaining such a regular comm line with him/her (or why the CofS would allow it). I know (s)he's a charming, charismatic personality but, in my experience, the CofS policy doesn't EVER take those things into account.
It was (and still is) a well-executed operation and, despite my abhorrence of all things OSA, I have to admit to a grudging admiration for the skillful execution. Just when we thought they might be all out of ammunition, they started shooting again.
It's nothing personal, it's just how they do business.
(Note: gender obfuscation intentional).
I love you, mate, but sooner or later you're going to have to face up to the fact that you got royally played by OSA (as did many others).
I predict that, at some time in the not-too-distant future, the "good friend" of your good friend is going to wake up and get BOTH feet out.
When he does, he's going to confess to one of two things;
(a) that he knowingly fed false information to your good friend because, at the time, it seemed like it was the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, or
(b) that he was fooled by another into unknowingly feeding false information to your good friend because, at the time, it seemed like it was the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.
You know, or should know, how the CofS works. You know what the Policy states and how rigidly it is applied.
Ask your good friend about what actual motives this "good friend" might possibly have for maintaining such a regular comm line with him/her (or why the CofS would allow it). I know (s)he's a charming, charismatic personality but, in my experience, the CofS policy doesn't EVER take those things into account.
It was (and still is) a well-executed operation and, despite my abhorrence of all things OSA, I have to admit to a grudging admiration for the skillful execution. Just when we thought they might be all out of ammunition, they started shooting again.
It's nothing personal, it's just how they do business.
(Note: gender obfuscation intentional).
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
All this hubbub about mere speculation. I don't trust Rathbun at all. He was #2 man right alongside DM. Why should anyone believe he wasn't just as guilty (how many years did they spend at the top)?
There will be no successor to DM. Scientology as a religion is finished. It can't be sanitized because the evils lie at its source. You can't edit out LRH's mind-twisting stuff, it's strewn everywhere.
That being said, I think there is validity in some of the spiritual technology. However the research and verification of any "tech" will have to be done outside the setting of "religion" and make-a-buck business ethics.
Others' (Alan Walters' Knowledgism, and Dennis Stephen's TROM, John Galusha & Mike Goldstein's Indenics) seem to be very nice continuations of the goal of increased awareness and ability for people. None of the aforementioned make people into cult members or require billion year contracts of servitude.
There's so much that M&M have not answered, nor it seems do they ever intend to make a clean telling of what ALL went on. So, F**K them. M&M are criminals. Might be nice guys and all, but they are criminals. Why follow them? Like denouncing Hitler but siding with Goebels.
There will be no successor to DM. Scientology as a religion is finished. It can't be sanitized because the evils lie at its source. You can't edit out LRH's mind-twisting stuff, it's strewn everywhere.
That being said, I think there is validity in some of the spiritual technology. However the research and verification of any "tech" will have to be done outside the setting of "religion" and make-a-buck business ethics.
Others' (Alan Walters' Knowledgism, and Dennis Stephen's TROM, John Galusha & Mike Goldstein's Indenics) seem to be very nice continuations of the goal of increased awareness and ability for people. None of the aforementioned make people into cult members or require billion year contracts of servitude.
There's so much that M&M have not answered, nor it seems do they ever intend to make a clean telling of what ALL went on. So, F**K them. M&M are criminals. Might be nice guys and all, but they are criminals. Why follow them? Like denouncing Hitler but siding with Goebels.
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
Cliff notes : "Never fear to harm another in a just cause".
and
" acceptable truth "
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Is that you, Godwin? (just kidding!)PirateAndBum said:
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Gottabrain
Guest
Good post.
BLiP, I was wondering the exact same thing about a marketing war between the FZ and Rathbun. If so, then a few members of the FZ would do well to raise their standards and PR on two subjects:
1) I'd like to see more public statements by FZers against the RPF and disclosing the abuses of the RPF,
2) I'd like to see a lot less gossiping and labeling others "OSA" and "insane" or "Type 3", etc. just because some individuals don't get along in the FZ. It's childish and unfair. (doesn't refer to all FZers)
Whereas M&M has improved somewhat in these two areas in recent months, the FZ has not. Not to say M&M won't revert or doesn't have the same sort of capacity for labeling, disconnection, etc. It was done before.
So maybe a market war will be better for everyone. You know, raise the standards of truth and accountability for both M&M and the FZ and prevent abuses by M&M and FZ. Seems healthy to me if it raises standards and expectations.
Kind of funny, though, if that's what's going on. Except for the individuals who get hurt in the middle of it.
We're all just SO much better without any Scientology.
dexter gelfand
Patron Meritorious
Panda, you're a very cool being in my estimation, don't get me wrong, but can I make it any plainer that this person who is like a sibling to me is only relating what he himself experienced in his own direct contact with Mike Laws?" I mean really, that's like being interviewed on TV, having your words played back and then claiming you were misquoted. How does one "play" oneself?
You're missing the boat on this one, my good friend. time will tell. There is an "op" taking place here, but it is a more obvious one.
Love, Dex
You're missing the boat on this one, my good friend. time will tell. There is an "op" taking place here, but it is a more obvious one.
Love, Dex
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
OK, we might be talking about different people.
There are guys here on ESMB who can tell pretty good stories about what sometimes goes on between siblings when the CofS gets in the picture, but OK.
Stay tuned, as with everything; time will tell.
I promise to apologise if I'm wrong, will you do the same?
There are guys here on ESMB who can tell pretty good stories about what sometimes goes on between siblings when the CofS gets in the picture, but OK.
Stay tuned, as with everything; time will tell.
I promise to apologise if I'm wrong, will you do the same?
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Strictly speaking, not true, Dex. One may accept Mike's intention as honest while not accepting Marty. Although, as you suggest, that may well be the "intent" behind Mike's actions.
Personally, I don't know and don't have a dog in the fight at least until such time as I determine that enough solid data has been presented to form a definite opinion which would require action on my part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J7z2C9isfM
As Fluffy said.
A. Not many fz'ers post on esmb.
B. Many fz'ers have no direct personal experience with either the SO or the RPF, only having experienced them from afar as non-SO staff or public.
C. Personally I have ALWAYS thought both the SO & the RPF were obvious idiocies and never remotely considered joining the former, and thus never qualified for the latter. Accordingly I frankly can't see the point of further comment upon them beyond the statement, oft made by myself, both on public & freezone sites, that neither institution serves any useful purpose and no organization embodying either warrants continued support.
Mark A. Baker
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