From One Foot Out

[Gottabrain]

Strictly speaking, not true, Dex. One may accept Mike's intention as honest while not accepting Marty. Although, as you suggest, that may well be the "intent" behind Mike's actions.

Personally, I don't know and don't have a dog in the fight at least until such time as I determine that enough solid data has been presented to form a definite opinion which would require action on my part.

A. Not many fz'ers post on esmb.

B. Many fz'ers have no direct personal experience with either the SO or the RPF, only having experienced them from afar as non-SO staff or public.

C. Personally I have ALWAYS thought both the SO & the RPF were obvious idiocies and never remotely considered joining the former, and thus never qualified for the latter. Accordingly I frankly can't see the point of further comment upon them beyond the statement, oft made by myself, both on public & freezone sites, that neither institution serves any useful purpose and no organization embodying either warrants continued support.

Mark A. Baker

Nice post, Mark. Waiting for solid evidence is probably the best approach for anyone. Even if Mike Laws were a "front man for Marty", that doesn't mean we wouldn't notice it as soon as he posts Marty stuff.

And thanks for your explanation and statements re FZers and for noticing how many times I bring up the RPF abuses.

Your statement of your opinions of it as an FZer makes a difference to other FZers. Personally, I like where you're coming from.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Good post.

BLiP, I was wondering the exact same thing about a marketing war between the FZ and Rathbun. If so, then a few members of the FZ would do well to raise their standards and PR on two subjects:

1) I'd like to see more public statements by FZers against the RPF and disclosing the abuses of the RPF,

2) I'd like to see a lot less gossiping and labeling others "OSA" and "insane" or "Type 3", etc. just because some individuals don't get along in the FZ. It's childish and unfair. (doesn't refer to all FZers)

Whereas M&M has improved somewhat in these two areas in recent months, the FZ has not. Not to say M&M won't revert or doesn't have the same sort of capacity for labeling, disconnection, etc. It was done before.

So maybe a market war will be better for everyone. You know, raise the standards of truth and accountability for both M&M and the FZ and prevent abuses by M&M and FZ. Seems healthy to me if it raises standards and expectations.

Kind of funny, though, if that's what's going on. Except for the individuals who get hurt in the middle of it.

We're all just SO much better without any Scientology.

maybe we could all have a targeting and footbullet seminar to see who takes the helm of the Co$

 

[scooter]

What Co$?:confused2:

That ship is sinking and anyone at the helm would have to go down with her.

Not a job anyone with any rationality left would ever consider. Which is prolly why dwarf-boy is still there - nobody wants the job really.

 

[dexter gelfand]

OK, we might be talking about different people.
There are guys here on ESMB who can tell pretty good stories about what sometimes goes on between siblings when the CofS gets in the picture, but OK.
Stay tuned, as with everything; time will tell.
I promise to apologise if I'm wrong, will you do the same?

Hey Panda, if I were to see proof that somehow what I have taken as truth is otherwise, I'd be quick to concede that I was mistaken, and then to apologize to Those I've spoken about here.
(Just don't bet the farm that such a thing will occur)

Love, Dex

 

[Free Being Me]

Dex, I notice you didn't answer me. That's ok. I have heard of the saying, 'beware of $cientologists bearing affinity'. I'll add another saying to that, 'beware of $cientologists bearing rumors'.

 

[paradox]

Dex, I notice you didn't answer me. That's ok. I have heard of the saying, 'beware of $cientologists bearing affinity'. I'll add another saying to that, 'beware of $cientologists bearing rumors'.

Thank you for pointing out the patently obvious.

 

[dexter gelfand]

Dex, I notice you didn't answer me. That's ok. I have heard of the saying, 'beware of $cientologists bearing affinity'. I'll add another saying to that, 'beware of $cientologists bearing rumors'.

Geeze Free, you might have considered that my not having answered your question (yet) was merely an oversight, instead of being quick to take it personally. Haven't I always taken care to answer everything you've ever brought up to me? Its easy to miss something, you know. That's all it was.

So anyway, you asked,

*Could it be you wanted that FB post noticed Dex? And why would you want that?

I think the answer is obvious, Free. I posted it where I wanted it noticed. I intended to share this with those who could more easily understand my point, my accepted "Facebook friends". What I didn't expect was that Candy Swanson, aka "Purple Haze", after having gotten me to connect with her through sending me a "friend request", would then, without even discussing what I posted on my Facebook page with me, copy and paste it over to ESMB.
It's obvious I wanted it seen within the limited venue where I said it, or else why would I say it? I wasn't looking for 3 (or however many) days of pointless pro- and con- elements preaching to and against their choirs here on ESMB, which is what we've got going now. But being that I did say what I said, and this was brought out, it then fell upon my shoulders to explain myself, and that is what I have been doing- interminably.
I failed to notice and answer one single communication thrust out to me in all of this, and see how this was taken.
So, it shouldn't be too hard to understand why I limited what I was saying to what was a less contentious environment in the first place.
Nevertheless, its fine, and probably a good thing that this wound up here. In hindsight, I think my statement needed to be said. I've gotten a surprising bunch of (mostly) supportive and grateful messages through email and Facebook messages from ESMB'rs who have their reasons for not being as open as I wound up being here, including some new (to me) corroborations of what I have been saying.

Hope that answers your question, Free.

Love, Dex

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

What Co$?:confused2:

That ship is sinking and anyone at the helm would have to go down with her.

Not a job anyone with any rationality left would ever consider. Which is prolly why dwarf-boy is still there - nobody wants the job really.

Really!

A billion dollars or more in assets, real estate all over the globe.

Somebody is going to grab the loot.

The real question is, "Who?"

 

[Infinite]

Really!

A billion dollars or more in assets, real estate all over the globe.

Somebody is going to grab the loot.

The real question is, "Who?"

Playing out like a complicated game of gridiron, isn't it?

 

[paradox]

Really!

A billion dollars or more in assets, real estate all over the globe.

Somebody is going to grab the loot.

The real question is, "Who?"

Know of any hot prospects? :confused2:

 

[Free Being Me]

Thank you for pointing out the patently obvious.

$cientologists miss the obvious. As such, it needs to be said to get there attention.

 

[Free Being Me]

Geeze Free, you might have considered that my not having answered your question (yet) was merely an oversight, instead of being quick to take it personally. Haven't I always taken care to answer everything you've ever brought up to me? Its easy to miss something, you know. That's all it was.

So anyway, you asked,

*Could it be you wanted that FB post noticed Dex? And why would you want that?

I think the answer is obvious, Free. I posted it where I wanted it noticed. I intended to share this with those who could more easily understand my point, my accepted "Facebook friends". What I didn't expect was that Candy Swanson, aka "Purple Haze", after having gotten me to connect with her through sending me a "friend request", would then, without even discussing what I posted on my Facebook page with me, copy and paste it over to ESMB.
It's obvious I wanted it seen within the limited venue where I said it, or else why would I say it? I wasn't looking for 3 (or however many) days of pointless pro- and con- elements preaching to and against their choirs here on ESMB, which is what we've got going now. But being that I did say what I said, and this was brought out, it then fell upon my shoulders to explain myself, and that is what I have been doing- interminably.
I failed to notice and answer one single communication thrust out to me in all of this, and see how this was taken.
So, it shouldn't be too hard to understand why I limited what I was saying to what was a less contentious environment in the first place.
Nevertheless, its fine, and probably a good thing that this wound up here. In hindsight, I think my statement needed to be said. I've gotten a surprising bunch of (mostly) supportive and grateful messages through email and Facebook messages from ESMB'rs who have their reasons for not being as open as I wound up being here, including some new (to me) corroborations of what I have been saying.

Hope that answers your question, Free.

Love, Dex

I don't take anything personal from the net, Dex. I see this as waste of time. Really, I do. I don't the play he/she said rumor crap games. Especially with people I don't know. Thanks for the reply, I gotta

 

[Emma]

Not by Dexter, it wasn't.

Yeah coz you always want to keep things quiet when you post them on Facebook. It's not like anyone reads Facebook or that its a very big site or anything. And its not like Dexters wall is closed off to only friends. Or that Dexter doesn't have ESMB "friends" on FB or anything.

I can see here that yes Dexter tried his hardest to keep these wacko conspiracy theories to himself and by posting them to Facebook he was doing just that and there was really no way to predict that they've ever find their way to ESMB.

Got it.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

3p doesn't work well on the internet.. Of course one can assert that it's immoral to repeat the 3P in venues it wasn't intended for?

:confused2:

 

[Emma]

I can confirm honestly and absolutely that nothing I have communicated came from anyone in OSA, or anyone connected to anyone in OSA, Emma.
Between you and Kevin Mackey, I've been shown about someone in OSA with an apparent connection to a fellow ESMB'er who seems to have enough of an axe to grind with the whole ball of wax to have leaked out statements that aren't without plausibility.
Kevin has commented on my Facebook his interpretation that this means any statements against the Marty team can be dismissed as an "OSA operation". and clearly you also find it preferable to buy into that theory.
As long as we're going to speculate (and that's all these ideas are-speculation), I have to wonder why you find it so hard to believe that a CoS or OSA insider could be finding it harder and harder to go along with the company line, and feel a need to do the right thing. Isn't that how most of us came to be on ESMB? Wasn't that part of your own journey?
I can't help but notice that the 2 or 3 people who seem so adamant to refuse to even consider the possibility that there's something to the suggestion that Mike Laws may not be the altruistic warm fuzzy guy with such a sympathy-inviting life he's busy creating a self-image of are fellow Aussies.
Food for thought.

Love, Dex

You didn't answer my question.

Did you pass this "information" on to Zinj in Nov/Dec 2010?

 

[degraded being]

ARC TRIANGLE.

We got the A pushed to the point it made me wonder what the the agenda was. I concluded that the agenda was not just to give a quik demo, but to force readers to accept the hugh importance of Affinity...force reders to take it, ironically.
(fairly recently on our Time Track)


Now we got the C. In a roundabout way, but do you agree that there is communication? Good.

Now it would be ok to get the R

And then we would have the 3 points of the ARC
triangle and that would add up to understanding.

Then we would be in arc. The entheta would...now what does entheta do?....oh yeah, the entheta would blow and there would be a theta environment ("lovely" adjective = optional extra).

I'm good at this. I'm gunna open a mission.

What would constitute the R? Dox.

Dear Dex, deliver the dox.

 

[purple haze]

I don't take anything personal from the net, Dex. I see this as waste of time. Really, I do. I don't the play he/she said rumor crap games. Especially with people I don't know. Thanks for the reply, I gotta

Agree Free. I don't know you or Dex actually. that I know of...it just seemed like the two connected...is there some ettiquite I'm not aware of between FB and ESMB? Please inform.

After all, I am at heart a surfer girl from Hawaii's North Shore. Most of this game playing/politics is big city to me.

I appreciate what you wrote, Free. But I intend to learn and am willing to take the blame, if need be, to keep the peace.

I believe Dart can vouch for me if there's any doubt. and he's on Facebook, whereas he's done here...that's why I connected the two together I guess; including Dart's presense.

 

[Free Being Me]

Agree Free. I don't know you or Dex actually. that I know of...it just seemed like the two connected...is there some ettiquite I'm not aware of between FB and ESMB? Please inform.

After all, I am at heart a surfer girl from Hawaii's North Shore. Most of this game playing/politics is big city to me.

I appreciate what you wrote, Free. But I intend to learn and am willing to take the blame, if need be, to keep the peace.

I believe Dart can vouch for me if there's any doubt. and he's on Facebook, whereas he's done here...that's why I connected the two together I guess; including Dart's presense.

Why would you post a message to me with assurances that you can be 'vouched' for? I'm not fond of the FZ or it's members, mainly because I see $cio as a destructive cult.

Between Carmelo asking me to call him (which I never did), Dex asking to be trusted blindly regarding his part in a DA whisper effort and you saying you can be vouched for...I'm highly suspicious of assurances, vouching, asking for trust, or any other form of blind agreement. I do not trust $cientologists and that's what FZ'ers are, $cientologists. To summarize, I don't trust any of you FZ'ers.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Agree Free. I don't know you or Dex actually. that I know of...it just seemed like the two connected...is there some ettiquite I'm not aware of between FB and ESMB? Please inform.

After all, I am at heart a surfer girl from Hawaii's North Shore. Most of this game playing/politics is big city to me. ...

The general rule of operation, PH, is that any information posted to a membership board (i.e. one which requires a personal "login") is PRIVATE to THAT BOARD. This is so unless EXTERNAL release of data is specifically allowed either by the general terms of agreement for that board, or permission has been granted by the original poster.

This is simply "good manners" as well as respect for the terms of agreement. These are technically private boards by dint of their membership requirements & legal status.

However, given the penchant of many to treat anything posted to the internet as "public domain information", the rule of "good manners" is much more commonly breached than observed.

However, it is still a good practice to get PERMISSION prior to making a cross-post. Leave the deliberate rudeness to the children.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Terril park]

I have been receiving a few emails about MR and MR anonymously, but most of them seem to be CofS trolling. This one isn't obviously so, and it was requested that I post this. So here it is. I don't agree with the perspective, but the writer could be correct. The part about the long downtrend in the CofS is obvious, though.

Message follows:

I did see this somewhere but thought it so ridiculous I took no further notice. I'll comment here.

I've taken all I can take, and I can't take no more. I'm not going to tell you who I am, where I am or what I do, but I'm sitting in a position to see the big picture by connecting together the data passing through. Shit, I am surprised; I haven't seen anyone out there among you, put this together yourselves, so it I'm crossing the River Styx.

There is the refrain, " DOX or STFU". This person is hiding identity
while trying to right wrongs and raise a shit storm. So unlike Martin Luther.

This in itself is grounds for suspicion.

The cartel that is in control of the CofS, regardless of all the lying boasts of growth, has long been aware of its downtrending membership and income. The same public can only be squeezed for finances so much and for so long. The need to keep up the appearance of being true to a "source" that expired in 1986 does place limitations on how many times "new and improved" products and services can be successfully marketed - especially given the dwindling market. Those, who have an accustomed level of cash flow, remain bent on maintaining that level, and will consider and apply any method(s).

There is no evidence of a " Cartel" in control of COS. The term alone is inapplicable re a single organisation.

We have the statements of many highly connected, including the main architect of the current COS corporate structure, Larry Brennan, that
DM is in sole control. I have a friend who worked with all the top execs
who also supports that view.

Bear in mind that often, with an organization that controls and takes in enormous amounts of money in ways that, if known, would endanger its continuing, the real power(s) often hide behind a figurehead who enjoys the attention while in reality acting as a lightning rod for their masters, who find it convenient for that figurehead to believe he is powerful and important. These powers can have little or no concern for how employees are treated or compensated by that figurehead, as it is no liability to them as long as the cash flow is maintained.

The usual suspects of being the " Real Power" are IRS, CIA, Government etc.

The fairly widely accepted estimate of COS's reserves are 1 billion dollars.
This is just small change. Note that the US, UK, Europe all have terrible
limitations re reduced government spending. affecting social welfare, jobs,
wages and a great reduction of living standards. Hospitals closing, cities bankrupt and so on. The US is currently in 1.3 trillion dollars in debt! Things will get worse.

Where has all the money gone? many conspiracy theories on that one!
The 1 billion dollars of COS dosn't rate a mention......Except very locally.
See DM!

Powers so motivated, observing a down trending income, find this unacceptable, and are now amenable to finding or accepting a new manager / lightning rod who they believe will provide the best bang for their buck. They may encourage competition between potential candidates and the incumbent, as they can only benefit from this. The rewards of compensation of money and power make it a highly pressured competition, not unlike politics.

Why should " Real Powers" be at all concerning with the fastest shrinking minority religion in the world! In the UK Value Added Tax has just gone up two and a half percent.

Thats many multiple times the worth of COS without all the hassles of legal claims etc.

This downtrend would not be so steep if there was a sufficient stream of new customers, but with the negative word of mouth coming from all of those riding the exodus out of the organization, Scientology has become a very tough sell. This leaves as the greatest potential untapped market former adherents of the CofS who remain believers in the doctrine, but do not trust the current management.

The ideal choice at this time becomes a figure that former adherents could trust and rally around. Enter Mark ("Marty") Rathbun. If he could garner widespread support among the disaffected, and deliver back to CoS substantial numbers of pre-indoctrinated public, he could ride this wave to the top management position. In a blaze of celebratory promotion, and in the terms CoS members are accustomed to, it is broadly announced that "The suppressive squirrel who has been working all this time to destroy Scientology has at long last been rooted out", a "Suppressive Person Declaration" with particulars several pages long is issued, "Basic Scientology is now being restored across the planet under the caring direction of the new Executive Director International", and "A full amnesty" is declared for all those "good Scientologists driven out by out-tech and injustice".

All this, of course, hinges on Rathbun's success in garnering observable widespread support among the disaffected. To that end, Mr. Rathbun has assembled an advance team. His people apply Scientology principles to ingratiate themselves to disaffected Scientologists and then, having gained acceptability, use whatever credibility gained to promote acceptance of himself well enough that he can then step into the scene without risking negative public reaction and win people over.

It appears that he's had some success, mainly with former Sea Org members who served in his era and during their tenure had become accustomed to holding him in high esteem, but that hasn't accumulated anywhere near the substantial numbers needed to triumph over the incumbent "COB", The telling blow would be to win over the popular active "free zone" auditors, which would ultimately entail bringing them "back into the fold" so that they would turn in PC folders to CoS, and/or sign Sea Org contracts themselves, resulting in a significant flow of both paying public and staff, and giving an appearance that "all is now right" in the CoS, with a resultant marked improvement in marketability to potential fresh customers.

This is superficially the most believable part of this mail. However over the years any comments from FZers are on the order of, "may be good to have a reformed COS, but I'll stay independent". In fact its a topic that has rarely been raised at all.

Rathbun has not had notable success in this effort, almost universally being rebuffed in his attempts to make inroads directly with operating "free zone" opinion leaders.

This is true in reverse really. Very few in the FZ are interesting in attacking him or rebuffing him. Or supporting him especially, other than being willing to delivering services to any who want them whether or not they are friends of Marty.

Allow me my 15 minutes of fame, or a bit of Hubris. I am an FZ opinion leader of sorts. I have the worlds largest FZ/Scn forum and have done more to promote the FZ than anyone for a decade. You don't believe me go visit the " Freezone Success Stories" thread here. I'm possibly the only FZer here who actually posts sometimes supporting Marty's efforts.

So am I also part of this advance team? Along with Emma? Lol!

Marty has been quite derogatory to me on his blog, almost banned me a couple of times. Mostly ignores my occasional mail.

It appears that for the most part, they have experience of conflicts with the CoS in which Rathbun was an aggressor toward them, and they are unimpressed with what some regard as Rathbun's "charisma". The result is that he must try to find and win over some other substantive "public", out of desperation, or else fail in his bid to out-maneuver the incumbent "COB". It isn't enough to wage campaigns to discredit and weaken David Miscavige. He, MR, must demonstrate that he brings more income stream to the table.

In fact few in the FZ have had problems re Marty. Mayo had, Bent Corydon
may have. Tommy Thompson and Ralph Hilton had relatively minor problems re OSA but not sure if Marty was involved. Many from the attack on the Mission Holders had problems. Don't think Marty was involved in that much if
at all. He wasn't an RTC member until 1987.

The remaining avenues are (a) starting his own service facility and attracting a large volume of new public, and/or (b) recovering the numbers of disaffected former customers accumulated and accessible through the Freezone lists, XSO, Ex-Scientologist Message Board and other internet opinion machines. The latter, unlikely as it is, is less formidable than the former. It is less work, less demanding, and far less time consuming to change opinions here with clever and well placed PR activities, as challenging as that is, than it is to build up a following among those uninitiated to Scientology.

You got to be joking! He sank like a lead balloon here and
called it a natterboard!

[a] He is doing. Got no idea of the volume.

This has been the focus of MR's recent activities. Working from the playbook he learned so well as a high CoS official, Rathbun evades engagement with unsupportive elements, so as to avoid unflattering, detrimental exposure. His PR training taught him to employ others, i.e., an "advance team", to "handle" opinion leaders to create a more favorable predisposition ahead of his personal appearance in an area. This is the mission assigned to Karen De La Carriere, Mike Laws (surprisingly*) and perhaps others not openly known to be agents or associates of Rathbun.

Why the fuck am I not on this advance team Why the fuck
has Marty insulted me on his blog?
Why the fuck is Big Pharma remiss in not paying my protest fees?

Guess I got to " Harden the Fuck Up. "

*("Surprisingly", because Laws operates with support from the highest levels behind the CoS, has operated with impunity within the CoS and maintained his connections with CoS execs and public even as he quietly backed and provided for Rathbun's "landing out of the CoS" in Texas from the very beginning, and had always lurked quietly in the background of Rathbun's self-promotional activities from the very beginning. So much for his "Marty befriended me when my dog died" shore story).

DOX or STFU.

This data appears to be invalidated by those here that know the guy.

I have put myself as far out on a limb as I feel is warranted here, and I will not apologize for presenting no additional proof, names, evidence or documents. This report has been done, at my risk, as a courtesy to you all. Understand this: whether you support and/or contribute to David Miscavige's Church of Scientology, or to Mark Rathbun and his efforts, in the end you are supporting the same machine, with or without superficial cosmetic change. Those of you who have left behind the oppression of the CoS would be well advised to consider "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

The writer of this may even believe what he says.

I'm afraid I don't.