From the Horse's Mouth

[fiveyearzen]

Thanks, Axiom. I have been reading the "My Story" section, and it is eye-opening. I'm curious... is that process (telling your story) something akin to auditing? Without the little meter thingy, of course. What is that thing supposed to measure, anyway? What I have read there and on other threads has prompted another question, but I'll ask that in a different thread.

 

[Zinjifar]

Thanks, Axiom. I have been reading the "My Story" section, and it is eye-opening. I'm curious... is that process (telling your story) something akin to auditing? Without the little meter thingy, of course. What is that thing supposed to measure, anyway? What I have read there and on other threads has prompted another question, but I'll ask that in a different thread.

I'm not Axiom, and, probably his answer will differ from mine significantly, but, 'telling your story' is cathartic for people here because Scientology (and especially the 'Church') rigorously forbids personal communication between members, especially for Staff and Sea Org, by forbidding 'Case on Post' and 'Verbal Tech' and 'being PTS to the Middle Class' and stressing the *group* effort while destroying personal and familial relationships.

To be able to not only re-examine one's own personal history and experiences, especially without being accused of 'nattering' or 'enturbulation' or 'Overts/Witholds' is something impossible within the 'Church' itself, and, liberating.

And, also, Scientology operates on such a secretive basis that such stories are often the only insight into the actual operation of the Cult, but helps the individual find and connect 'loose ends' the 'Church' prefers. The right hand gets to find out what the left one was doing


Zinj

 

[fiveyearzen]

Why Scientology???

Thanks for all your help and answers on here. I wasn't quite certain what to expect, or if I should even post, but I'm glad that I did.

After reading for hours on end, I've noticed that most, if not all, of the people here cited the fact that they wanted to help others/make a difference as a main reason for joining Scientology. I do not doubt the truth of that whatsoever. But, that being the motivation, why choose Scientology? They don't have a great track record for helping others or making a difference. There are countless other organizations out there that do have a great track record. Why not join the Christian church, which has roughly 400,000 missionaries worldwide who have a well-established record of impact. Why not join the Red Cross? Peace Corps? There are literally thousands of groups tailored to match specific areas of concern and conviction. What about Scientology convinced you that you could do the most good with them?

 

[Axiom142]

Thanks, Axiom. I have been reading the "My Story" section, and it is eye-opening. I'm curious... is that process (telling your story) something akin to auditing? Without the little meter thingy, of course. What is that thing supposed to measure, anyway? What I have read there and on other threads has prompted another question, but I'll ask that in a different thread.

And I’m not Zinj, although I find myself in agreement with him. Telling one’s story can be very cathartic. This is very important as many people are deeply affected by their experiences in Scientology. Imagine believing that you are on the path to immortality and then you find out that you were conned and it is all a lie? This can be devastating, both emotionally and physically.

Auditing is supposed to address specific areas of emotional and spiritual upset. Auditing is carried by a person training in a particular series of processes. In its basic form, this consists of asking a series of questions in a structured format, until the desired effect is reached. The E-meter is a device that enables an auditor to locate the most relevant areas of upset that are due to be addressed. It does this by measuring the electrical resistance of the person being audited (known as a preclear or pc). As the pc mentally contacts areas of upset, the meter will display various different types of needle movement.

This in turn, enables the auditor to home in on the correct area and ask the right questions. I will not be popular for saying this, but I believe that some benefit can be gained from being audited by a person competent in this skill.

However, I think that the gains are greatly exaggerated and not worth the huge amounts of money charged by the ‘church’. It is very possible to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (US) on this. I personally spent the equivalent of over $140,000 and was nowhere near finished. I would have expected to have to spend perhaps $4 – 500,000 to get to the highest level currently available in the ‘church’.

Hope that answers your question.

Axiom142

 

[Pixie]

I would first like to say that I am NOT an ex-scientologist. I have no affiliation with the group, past or present (or future, for that matter). I would second like to ask that you excuse me for any intrusion onto your board and thank you for allowing me a small voice here.

Third, I would like to use that voice to ask one simple question (with introduction). I am a high school English teacher. I began researching Scientology when my students posed some questions that I could not answer in any informed manner. My preliminary research led me to much deeper research, because I frankly could not believe what I was reading. After much probing, I have formed a tentative conclusion that the Chruch of Scientology is, in fact, criminal and dangerously close to terrorist (if it hasn't already crossed that line). However, being an English teacher, I am all too aware of the issue with source credibility, and I would like to know what those who have interacted with the "church" think. Please try to remain objective. My simple question is this: Do you believe that the Church of Scientology is criminal?

110%!! There is not one shadow of a doubt about this in my experience after twenty years in.

 

[Pixie]

Yes, that is usually a significant factor in WHY people leave the church.

However, be advised. In addition to those former Co$ members who turn there back on the SUBJECT of scientology, there are MANY who continue to practice the subject INDEPENDENT of church involvement.

These latter collectively form a loose knit association of groups & individuals and are collectively called the "freezone". The freezone is not a unified entity. The individuals who practice scientology within the freezone often have greatly differing perspectives concerning what aspects of scientology are most important to preserve.

Also, there is much controversy concerning the subject of scientology among those who have abandoned it completely and those who still use it to a greater or lesser degree.

Since ESMB is not a freezone site, if you are interested in hearing more from freezoners concerning the differences between the subject of scientology & the church of scientology, I invite you to visit the following chat site and pose any questions you may have there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreezoneOrg/


Mark A. Baker

This is outrageous Mark A. Baker!! Here we go again, the 'freezerzoners' jumping all over new people flaunthing yet MORE SCIENTOLOGY!!!!!!!!! Why do you guys insist on doing this?? He's NOT asking about the freezone which is the exact same thing as $cientology. There IS NO DIFFERENCE!! You are STILL using $camology ''TECHNOLOGY''!!

 

[Pixie]

a)

N.B. freezone recruiters in this thread? Shame!

NO CHANGE THERE THEN!!

 

[Pixie]

Hardly dissemination, Alanzo. Simply an invite to discuss his questions with a collection of freezoners.

FZorg makes no assumptions about membership beyond the expectation of good manners and observing BB's rules. Given the nature of FYZ's likely questions he wouldn't want to go to IFAchat or Freezone101.

You'ld be welcome on FZorg yourself IF you could behave.


Mark A. Baker

A 'discussion'?? That's impossible when you're brainwashed by the cult of $camology. If he does go to you lot for a 'discussion' you'll have him signed up for a couple of intensives before he has a chance to catch his breath no doubt! You guys are still not giving people a fair chance are you, this is overt recruitment in the tackiest of extremes.

 

[Boldgirl]

This is outrageous Mark A. Baker!! Here we go again, the 'freezerzoners' jumping all over new people flaunthing yet MORE SCIENTOLOGY!!!!!!!!! Why do you guys insist on doing this?? He's NOT asking about the freezone which is the exact same thing as $cientology. There IS NO DIFFERENCE!! You are STILL using $camology ''TECHNOLOGY''!!

I agree!
With all due respect Mark Bunker, you just advertised the freezone at the least. This isnt OK!!!!

 

[Zinjifar]

I agree!
With all due respect Mark Bunker, you just advertised the freezone at the least. This isnt OK!!!!

Mark A. Baker is not Mark Bunker, who has never been a Scientologist, but, who routinely co-exists with 'Still Techies' and even appreciates them as fellow opponents of the 'Church'.

At least, that's *my* take on it

Zinj

 

[Pixie]

Not trying to make a fool of anybody. There's a good reason I posted my question on an EX-Scientologist message board. I have this crazy assumption that the people here have broken with Scientology, and a question about the criminality of it would not be taken as an assault against anbody's personal beliefs. I have nothing to gain except knowledge.

Now I'm curious as to why you're so suspicious. I thought it was because I'm not a Scientologist. But maybe it's because you think I am. Are they THAT militant? Should I be leary of dark figures lurking around my car when I leave in the morning?

Fiveyearzen this IS an EX $cientology message board, however as I am sure you have already discovered, there are those who call themseves 'free zone', they are a splinter group who's normal reactions to new people coming to this board is to try to recruit them for their own intentions. How any of them can call themselves Ex $cientologists is beyond me completely.

So just be aware, that this board was originally created to help and heal EX $cientologist and is, or should be, a 'safe' place to hang out and perhaps meet up with old friends. This however and most unfortunately is becoming increasingly difficult because at the moment, just to put you in the picture, there is a debate going on as to whether the 'freezone' are taking advantage or not. In my opinion, yes they are, and as you have seen here for yourself tonight, you have already had one of them 'invite' you for a 'discussion'. The thing about trying to have a 'discussion' with a 'freezoner' is that they're opinions about life are based soley in their beliefs about $cientology, you will not find any unbiased or objective views with any of them I can assure you of that.

 

[sallydannce]

fiveyearzen, welcome. I saw your other thread. Personally I think it is great that a teacher is educating themselves about scientology.

So what was it about scientology that appealed to my youthful, misinformed idealism (I was a young "lost" 24 year old when I got involved)?

Firstly I was naive. Not knocking myself for stating that - just the truth. I was concerned about the madness in the world. I saw other groups as esoteric & irrelevant to modern-world problems. How could praying make the world better for the next generation? How could localised pockets of "doing good" fix this mess? To really get down to the core of what was wrong with the world, I liked the idea of eradicating the insanity each man, woman & child carried. Audit out that insanity and wow, the world would become beautiful.

Scientology hooked me in with the word "practical". This was a practical way I could participate in changing the world for the better. It was offered as "workable". In a world full of non-workable, half-baked theories, I liked the concept of being part of something that would do what it said it would do.

Of course in retrospect, wallowing in the benefit of hindsight, I see the only "world" that scientology really changes is its own. Scientology manipulates the "outside world" for its own gain. But when I was first becoming involved with the group, I was hooked by the concept that this was the way to develop a brand new world, based on sanity & peace. This was hugely appealing to me.

As my years within the group passed, I retained this view. I was part of the team that was going to rid the world of wars, famines - misery. We were going to drag man out of the mud with our superior "technology". The indoctrination created my tunnel-vision of this and shoved out the possibility that any other group (Red Cross, the local Christian missionaries, etc) had any real solutions. To be a true scientologist one must adopt a strong elitist attitude. Also arrogance is very helpful. "Our group is the only group doing anything decent for the world." Arrogance and elitism are, IMO, mandatory traits to be a fully-fledged active scientologist.

It is more than likely that there was latent arrogance & elitism lurking within me that pulled me into the group in the first place. Scientologists don't do "humble" or "modest" particularly well. Not the one's I knew at least.

 

[byte301]

I was young too. Idealistic and wanted to believe, I guess. Wanted to be part of a good group of people since I was in a new city alone.

A lot of people still in Scientology were young when they got in. The young people that are in now were born into it. Remember, the internet didn't exist for most of us when we got in so there wasn't so much research going on.

And like most cults, they love bomb you in the beginning.

And the promises of total freedom from war, disease and insanity may have had something to do with it. lol

 

[byte301]

I agree!
With all due respect Mark Bunker, you just advertised the freezone at the least. This isnt OK!!!!

Ooops! Mark Bunker is WiseBeardMan, Boldgirl. I think you mean't Mark Baker. WBM is our friend.

 

[Zinjifar]

Ooops! Mark Bunker is WiseBeardMan, Boldgirl. I think you mean't Mark Baker. WBM is our friend.

Mark Baker is our friend too; just a sometimes irritating friend...

Zinj

 

[Dulloldfart]

What about Scientology convinced you that you could do the most good with them?

For a good response to this, have a look at this post: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=74068

It was written (not by me) in response to a similar question to yours, unfortunately contains some terms which will be unfamiliar but should be comprehensible overall, and starts off:

In order to understand the whole Scn and CoS experience, you have to get a real handle on the subject of auditing. People who have not experienced it, either giving or receiving, tend to have a very unrealistic idea of what it is like.

Others will have different ideas, of course.

Paul

 

[Alanzo]

Here's my blog.

I go into how it was for me:

Alanzo's Blog

 

[Feral]

The way I saw it then was that we had Christianity for two thousand years and still the madness of the world continued, in my youthful enthusiasm I saw that a new approach may be needed to bring about the ideal state for mankind.When I read "Dianetics" I thought this is it! It promised an ideal that any man could attain.

In hindsight maybe I look as much of a jackass as I feel

 

[Mojo]

: Do you believe that the Church of Scientology is criminal?

Yes and No.

Of course the question is phrased in such a way as to nearly demand a Yes or No answer. I nonetheless offer Yes and No as an alternative possibility.

Why yes and no? Well that is the subject of philosophers mystics poets romanticists artists nut's and the like. But I'll offer a hint to the rest of you hopelessly normal folk. (lol, and not to be taken personally 5yrszn) To wit: A three foot tall lizard is a giant to an ant, and an ant to a lion. So to speak. So is that 3 foot tall lizard big or little? It's both.

Scientology as an organized entity in the world is certainly criminal in the world. With judges of law in countries all around the world concuring in remarkable unison. Over the course of generations.

So there is your 3 foot lizard, in the presence of an ant. Lol.

But the world is not full of ants alone, there exist, as it were, a few lions.

Damn poets. Lol.

Mojo

 

[Alanzo]

The way I saw it then was that we had Christianity for two thousand years and still the madness of the world continued, in my youthful enthusiasm I saw that a new approach may be needed to bring about the ideal state for mankind.When I read "Dianetics" I thought this is it! It promised an ideal that any man could attain.

In hindsight maybe I look as much of a jackass as I feel

I thought similarly.

They'd killed Martin Luther King. We'd lost the Viet Nam war. Nixon had resigned from the presidency. Everyone was doing coke.

I thought, "The status quo is no place to find the answer - obviously. So the answer MUST be in a fringe cult of some kind."

So then I found myself joining the cult of a failed science fiction writer that all my friends thought was weird.

Perfect!