I post the following because I do not want falsehoods and agenda driven presentations of "viewpoints" to stand improperly evaluated and uncorrected.
Well, I’m back from my trip to Philadelphia . . . these things tend to get bigger, longer than first envisioned
. Though it’s been a good week: I am a degree richer.
Had a chance to re-read this thread since getting back. Been very interesting to do a quick Data Eval on it.
For any of you guys who might be interested and who know the Data Eval Tech, this thread is a classic example of out-points like omitted data, incorrect or omitted correct sequence, opinion introduced as fact, alteration of facts, omitted facts, omitted time, altered importances, etc., etc., . . . and the one that inflamed this thread an added inapplicable.
The opening post and Thetanic’s posting of it is legit. He says he got it in a vacuum, didn’t know if it was real, what the hell it was all about, and sent to him by a name he doesn’t know. So OK, he posts it as an item of interest.
That was legit. Knowledgism is an item of interest and discussion on this board.
Then the opinions, inapplicables, omissions of data by those who have it; and misdirections start. You can see it if you read the thread from a data evaluation perspective.
I note also, that suddenly a newbie had joined the fray.
Thetanic made the opening post on 14th June 2010, 11:16 PM (NYC time). Unknownuser1 joined ESMB as a Newbie and made his/her first post on 15th June 2010, 03:34 AM . . . . that’s a mere 4 hours 18 minutes after Thetanic’s opening post!!
That’s a little extraordinary, don’t you think? . . . particularly since unknownuser1 has such spot on “insider” info on the Prosperity List, and asserts he/she knows the beginning of and why of “the upset.” The first post by unknownuser1 is a simple statement that the opening post is legit, and was posted on the Prosperity List.
Then CarmelO introduces the first full-blown added inapplicable and misdirector that incites a whole other issue of conflict and argument. Note post #10 on 15th June 2010, 04:31 AM. He posts:
So, where is Lola mentioned in the opening post? Where is it mentioned in that post anything about anyone being fired or dismissed from staff? The opening post only refers to misuse of tech, false claims regarding the tech and unnamed persons acting and having acted to sabotage the tech and its delivery. So why was this “item” (with the evaluated opinion of it) of Lola being dismissed introduced? Certainly at the stage it was introduced on the thread it was an added inapplicable. What it does do is introduce a one-sided attack on the management at the ranch.
You’ll notice how the focus of this thread changed at this point . . . it went from “What are the facts relative to the Kn email cited in the opening post” to “poor Lola, why was she fired, how mean of them that done it to her (and, added later, Al)!”
I was the next poster in sequence with post #11 at 15th June 2010, 09:38 AM just before I was about to take of out of town. I didn’t have the time to do a full handle on the data, so posted off the top of my head the facts I have that relate to the opening post and to CarmelO’s mention of Lola’s dismissal. I state that the info I have re Lola is as said to me, but I do not know the truth of that.
But the key point I made is that what is missing on this thread is the knowledge of and contents of the Post to the Prosperity List to which the post (from David and Ceil) cited in the opener of this thread is a response to. It is that missing post that caused David and Ceil of the ranch management to post as they did. I will not add my opinion of the post here . . . I’ve already mentioned it was a goof.
What I am still surprised by is that those in possession of that original, inciting post have not made that omitted data available to you folks, along with other omitted data/posts that would help resolve the mystery and conflict.
Some have wisely referred to the tech point that for a problem or conflict to exist or persist there must be an unknown. Hellooooo . . . so why has this info not been posted by those who have it yet are saying so much on this thread.
I do not condone the particular use of some tech points by David and Ceil in their post. It is not a post I would have put out. Too many upsetting generalities is one thing that is specifically off about it. But their post was in response to and intended to handle something, and unless you folks know what that was, you are flying blind in trying to opine on the matter.
And there is also other data/missing facts concerning points introduced on this thread.
Here are three missing emails that were posted on the Prosperity List.
Nothing provocative in that . . . . Nothing about being fired; no bitching or moaning Good folks would take Lola at her word, and say; “I wish thee well my Sweet.”
So where is this “Lola got fired” stuff coming from? Who is stirring it up by forwarding it — even if true? And even if true, why the one-sided Lola is a victim, hardly done by traffic? Why is no “why” presented, other than rumor and innuendo to make the executives who allegedly fired her look bad?
I hold no agenda in all of this . . . I am simply looking at the data trail and “information” cum comments as presented . . . . and it stinks!
The next post in time sequence on the Prosperity List of importance pertaining to the subject at hand is that from The Kypers. This is the Post on the Prosperity List (owned and run by Alan’s created ACLC operation that served all the ranch clients), that created the situation to which Ceil and David responded so unfortunately.
I will not bother picking this apart, I don’t have the time for this type of traffic. You can read it as you wish. But I’ll tell you there is the usual smoozing bullshit and falsehood in it that you’d see in a communication that is agenda driven rather than intended to communicate simple truth.
Now, for the record, CarmelO also introduces (post #30) the item that “Al” got fired, along with other opinions and speculation. So, where is that relevant to and on the issues covered in the opening post of this thread?
Here is Al’s response to the Kyper’s post on the Prosperity List . . . . note Al’s post was a day before David and Ceil’s response to the Kyper’s post.
Note we are dealing with Prosperity List posts above . . . no verbal rumor, no hidden third party. It has been stated on this thread that the “upset to the” Kn lines/Prosperity List folks “began before the Kyper’s post,” yet no specific "what" or "who’s" have been stated, but only “hidden data” used. And there is nothing of an upset vein posted on the list prior to the Kyper’s post.
Reviewing the date sequence of the posts from the particular individuals cited in this “dispute,” we see the following:
1. Jun 12th, 2010 2:24 AM EDT Lola posts she is leaving the ranch, and wishes all well.
2. June 12, 2010, 4:00 PM (EDT) The Kypers make their post across the Knowledgism lines
3. June 12, 2010, 5:17 PM (EDT) Al Leggett Posts “Heresy!”
4. June 13, 2010, 4:51 PM (EDT) David and Ceil post their response, as cited in the opener on this thread.
Now, if you are interested, re-read this thread and do an evaluation/analysis as to who is doing/saying what that is adding fuel to the fire, stirring the pot while at the same time not providing the known data that would have presented a complete picture versus only pushing the agenda of a one-sided view. And also note which “side” these folks are pushing and which side they are putting down.
And in particular note the agenda being pushed by the suddenly appearing newbies.
I actually have no axe to grind in this. I only care about the truth being known. I don’t like lies and distortions being pushed.
Further, for the record, I was put off the Prosperity List by Alan in December 2005, and have not been to the ranch since Sept. 2005. (The P. List posts above were forwarded to me by clients and friends.)
I am also not in the business of trying to accumulate clients as some accused me of when I first came on this board. I am wealthy enough to not have to bother with that. Last week I made $30K for the week . . . I simply do not need to sit down for dollars an hour listening to the same old boring stuff. I only work with a few friends who I truly like and who are smart enough to benefit from what I can do to help them. As many on this board know, I spend endless time on PM and email traffic helping folks for free . . . this because they have demonstrated they are worth it and that they have truly reached to know. There is no one on ESMB that I’ve ever asked a penny of. What I have done is recommend they go to the place I have found to have the best tech available . . . the Knowledgism Ranch. And I have never acted to poach any of the Ranch’s clients as the Kyper’s email on the Prosperity List, in my view, attempted to do.
But trying to steal the Ranch’s clients is not the issue I am on about . . . it is the corruption of a workable tech and the misrepresentation of certain elements as conveyed in that email.
For my part, all I’ve discovered I have made known and available to Alan while he was alive. My stance has been to add to the workability and effectiveness of the ongoing operation . . . I think it is destructive to undermine or tear down an establishment that is doing well and doing good work . . . . why not add to and empower it?? That’s what I did . . . . why not co-ordinate our power and make more effective our reach and influence toward the helping of the society we say we wish to help and serve?
That is also why I communicate all I can of my knowledge that I think will help folks here and elsewhere. That is why I spent my $$$’s to go and present at the FZ Conference in Pasadena last October.
The Kyper’s email and Eric Wolery’s “proposition” does not do that.
And that is the tragedy of what has happened here. And David and Ceil responded erroneously . . . . and that too is a tragedy.
Now I’ve had enough of this . . . I have better things to do.
RogerB