FSSO repayments suffering from lack of money?

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
Write every terminal in the org asking for a refund. From the book store officer to the HCO to the janitor. They will give it to you then.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Write every terminal in the org asking for a refund. From the book store officer to the HCO to the janitor. They will give it to you then.

Why would they give it to you then?

HCO will just stop the communication/letters to the book store office, janitor, etc and the communication/letters will never get to any of the other Org terminals, so they will never hear of it anyway.

So, why would they give it to you then?
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
There is where repayment money went. Did you notice that in all the pictures the rooms were completely empty?

Yes, R6. We did notice that. We got The Auditor from UK and noticed that right away about SH. Wha?? There was one pic they had a bunch (no more than 20 as I recall) crammed into a corner to look like a full room.

About the repayment cycle, when I was on staff, there was a repayment routing form that had to be filled out and a person had to come to the org to do it, talk to a bunch of people and do some stuff, then the thing "went up the lines". It disappeared into a black hole, it seemed, and required telex follow up.

How is this cycle started now? Just a phone call or email or does the person have to present themselves for the routing form?
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
That is what was done by one by advice of Diana Class 8 and also they did not sign their form but a one a kind ESMBer has and the IFA has improved it and it is in a newsletter they put out recently.

Be professional but serious. Even send a copy to a congress person.

They don't want everyone in the org to know about refunds and yes they get the messages. I know some did from me and yes some might have been stopped but I sent them anyhow. They gave the money back.


Why would they give it to you then?

HCO will just stop the communication/letters to the book store office, janitor, etc and the communication/letters will never get to any of the other Org terminals, so they will never hear of it anyway.

So, why would they give it to you then?
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
How it is done - initiating and getting a repayment

I thought I had posted this here earlier, but I can't find it now, so here goes:

1. Decide that you are going to ask to have your unused money on account returned to you.

2. Be willing to accept the idea that you will no longer be eligible for services from the CofS and that you will get charged 3% of the money on account for "handling fees".

3. Find out how much money you have on account at your org. Call the Treas Sec and if you cannot reach that person, call the bookstore officer and tell them you are considering ordering some books off of account and need to know what your current account balance is.

4. Call or email the chaplain at your org and tell them that you are no longer interested in getting services and want the balance of your money on account back immediately. If you are dealing with Flag call or email the KOT, Bob Bolger, who handles these cycles.

5 if they ask you to come in for an interview and an ARCX handling, ask them to cut to the chase and send you a CVB Repayment Routing Form AND a Release and Waiver to sign.

They will send you a packet of information which should include the CVB routing form, a checksheet for you, a staff checksheet for handling the cycle, and a copy of the Release and Waiver form for that org.

6. In some cases, they will send you this package with no other information.
Read steps 7 through 16 of these instructions for a fairly complete handling of the rest of the cycle.

7. Lay out the materials and set aside the CVB routing form and the your checksheet for handling this cycle. Read them later. You will not be following them unless you really want to go back in the org and get worked over and Sec Checked at your own expense.

8. Read the Release and Waiver and make sure you understand it. The standard form has no gotchas in it or gag orders. It is pretty straight forward. Sign it and get it witnessed or notarized depending on the form you are sent. Make sure that your amounts on account are accurate and you may want to list accommos and service accounts separately.

9. Write a short letter reiterating what you said in your first request. Keep it simple because these people are extremely PTS and cannot handle complex communications. DO NOT get into your past upsets and how mean they were. This is not the time to deal with that. What you want to communicate is that there is no necessity for any handling, you are long past that and only want your money back.

Keep it simple:
I no longer feel that the CofS can deliver what I paid for and want that money back. I have $XXX in my services account and $YYY in my accommodations account.

I want the money returned immediately and there is no reason that I should have to come to the org and do a routing form to get my money back as I didn't have to come there to put it on account.

According to the IRS-CofS agreement, I am entitled to get my money back
and I don't expect to have to get a lawyer to press suit in order to get my own money back.

I have attached a signed and witnessed Release and Waiver Form. Please send this and any other necessary paperwork to the Claims Verification Board immediately.


10. You will probably get a response to your letter promptly as that is a particle they can confront.

When they respond, ask if the forms have been sent to the CVB yet. Read the staff checklist and keep the pressure on them every week.

This may sound extreme, but you must realize these staff members are under extreme pressure and many are double posted so they get dispersed easily and will forget your cycle as soon as the next emergency hits.

11. Ask only ONE question per email. That is as much as most can handle before getting dispersed.

12 Use Tone 40 with high ARC. Do not attack the terminal, just exert continuous good control. When they do something you ask for, give them an ack. They do not get many and they are quite appreciative.

13. Follow the steps on the Staff checklist and query where your cycle is at least once a week.

14. If you start getting nonsensical replies, escalate to a higher terminal and continue keeping the pressure up for data on where your cycle is and why is it taking so long.

15. If you have a working relationship with a lawyer do not hesitate to copy him on important emails. You will probably get a nervous response from a legal terminal in the CofS saying this will delay the cycle. It probably will hasten the cycle.

16. Key milestones in your cycle:

Approval by the Claims Verification Board

Getting your repayment request into the weekly FP so it can be approved.

Getting the check and sharing the good news with the rest of us.

Any questions and suggestions: [email protected]
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I thought I had posted this here earlier, but I can't find it now, so here goes:

1. Decide that you are going to ask to have your unused money on account returned to you.

2. Be willing to accept the idea that you will no longer be eligible for services from the CofS and that you will get charged 3% of the money on account for "handling fees".

3. Find out how much money you have on account at your org. Call the Treas Sec and if you cannot reach that person, call the bookstore officer and tell them you are considering ordering some books off of account and need to know what your current account balance is.

4. Call or email the chaplain at your org and tell them that you are no longer interested in getting services and want the balance of your money on account back immediately. If you are dealing with Flag call or email the KOT, Bob Bolger, who handles these cycles.

5 if they ask you to come in for an interview and an ARCX handling, ask them to cut to the chase and send you a CVB Repayment Routing Form AND a Release and Waiver to sign.

They will send you a packet of information which should include the CVB routing form, a checksheet for you, a staff checksheet for handling the cycle, and a copy of the Release and Waiver form for that org.

6. In some cases, they will send you this package with no other information.
Read steps 7 through 16 of these instructions for a fairly complete handling of the rest of the cycle.

7. Lay out the materials and set aside the CVB routing form and the your checksheet for handling this cycle. Read them later. You will not be following them unless you really want to go back in the org and get worked over and Sec Checked at your own expense.

8. Read the Release and Waiver and make sure you understand it. The standard form has no gotchas in it or gag orders. It is pretty straight forward. Sign it and get it witnessed or notarized depending on the form you are sent. Make sure that your amounts on account are accurate and you may want to list accommos and service accounts separately.

9. Write a short letter reiterating what you said in your first request. Keep it simple because these people are extremely PTS and cannot handle complex communications. DO NOT get into your past upsets and how mean they were. This is not the time to deal with that. What you want to communicate is that there is no necessity for any handling, you are long past that and only want your money back.

Keep it simple:
I no longer feel that the CofS can deliver what I paid for and want that money back. I have $XXX in my services account and $YYY in my accommodations account.

I want the money returned immediately and there is no reason that I should have to come to the org and do a routing form to get my money back as I didn't have to come there to put it on account.

According to the IRS-CofS agreement, I am entitled to get my money back
and I don't expect to have to get a lawyer to press suit in order to get my own money back.

I have attached a signed and witnessed Release and Waiver Form. Please send this and any other necessary paperwork to the Claims Verification Board immediately.


10. You will probably get a response to your letter promptly as that is a particle they can confront.

When they respond, ask if the forms have been sent to the CVB yet. Read the staff checklist and keep the pressure on them every week.

This may sound extreme, but you must realize these staff members are under extreme pressure and many are double posted so they get dispersed easily and will forget your cycle as soon as the next emergency hits.

11. Ask only ONE question per email. That is as much as most can handle before getting dispersed.

12 Use Tone 40 with high ARC. Do not attack the terminal, just exert continuous good control. When they do something you ask for, give them an ack. They do not get many and they are quite appreciative.

13. Follow the steps on the Staff checklist and query where your cycle is at least once a week.

14. If you start getting nonsensical replies, escalate to a higher terminal and continue keeping the pressure up for data on where your cycle is and why is it taking so long.

15. If you have a working relationship with a lawyer do not hesitate to copy him on important emails. You will probably get a nervous response from a legal terminal in the CofS saying this will delay the cycle. It probably will hasten the cycle.

16. Key milestones in your cycle:

Approval by the Claims Verification Board

Getting your repayment request into the weekly FP so it can be approved.

Getting the check and sharing the good news with the rest of us.

Any questions and suggestions: [email protected]


This is AWESOME!!!!!! Thanks so much! :yes:
 

lostsoul

Patron
Old Auditor speaks the truth! As painful as it was "High" ARC and persistance is what it takes. Despite my upsets, I knew that I had to use good manners to accomplish my cycle. I got a very very rude letter back from legal at Flag, but I politely wrote back to her and said I felt she was out of line with her rudeness and that her letter stated false claims and gave incorrect facts. I got a fax back the next day with an apology, which I acknowledged her for admitting, and from then on my cycle moved along quickly. Two weeks later I had my repayment check.

Now I can't say the same for the FSSO. The chaplain has been nice, but way way evasive, and the Q&A is great. If you choose to have her as your contact, I think it is a waste of time. I have now spent 90 days going back and forth with her. You are asked a question, you give the answer, and ask one of your own and it takes 3-5 days to get a reply. After reading earlier posts I am am now convinced more than ever that it is all stall tactics and that she is NOT the correct terminal. I too have written to Ludwig Alpers, but have not yet heard back. When someone else hears from him I hope they post something here.

Thanks again old auditor!
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
WELCOME, LOSTSOUL!

Old Auditor speaks the truth! As painful as it was "High" ARC and persistance is what it takes. Despite my upsets, I knew that I had to use good manners to accomplish my cycle. I got a very very rude letter back from legal at Flag, but I politely wrote back to her and said I felt she was out of line with her rudeness and that her letter stated false claims and gave incorrect facts. I got a fax back the next day with an apology, which I acknowledged her for admitting, and from then on my cycle moved along quickly. Two weeks later I had my repayment check.

Now I can't say the same for the FSSO. The chaplain has been nice, but way way evasive, and the Q&A is great. If you choose to have her as your contact, I think it is a waste of time. I have now spent 90 days going back and forth with her. You are asked a question, you give the answer, and ask one of your own and it takes 3-5 days to get a reply. After reading earlier posts I am am now convinced more than ever that it is all stall tactics and that she is NOT the correct terminal. I too have written to Ludwig Alpers, but have not yet heard back. When someone else hears from him I hope they post something here.

Thanks again old auditor!

Welcome and thank you for your contribution to this board and thread. Looking forward to reading your story when you are ready. :yes:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>About the repayment cycle, when I was on staff, there was a repayment routing form that had to be filled out and a person had to come to the org to do it, talk to a bunch of people and do some stuff, then the thing "went up the lines". It disappeared into a black hole, it seemed, and required telex follow up.

How is this cycle started now? Just a phone call or email or does the person have to present themselves for the routing form?

The "routing forms", or any other "scientological" processes, cycles, or whatever, are for people still "in", or people who still think they might want to rejoin the cult somewhen in the future. People who are "OUT for good", don't need to care about this crap, as far as I know.

So here's what I would do, and how I would do it, if I were sure that I would never go back. Remember, I've never been "in", so I might well be wrong.

I would:
1. - Determine how much money they owe me on all my different accounts.
2. - Write a (one) letter demanding my money back, AND set a reasonable deadline; let's say 21 days.
3. - Make it clear that every day after said deadline, it'll become more costly for them, because I would automatically add an interest rate of 12.5% p.a. to my initial demand (hey, time is money - MY money in this hypothetical case), plus a processing fee for every letter I might have to write after this one.

That's what I would do, but as you can read here in several threads, other people were much more successful with a friendlier approach. That doesn't mean you'd have to do any routing form BS. After all, you're "OUT", aren't you? So why would you still have to jump through their hoops? They owe you money and you want it back. No need to discuss that, no need to fulfill any of their demands, and no need to bow to their failed "admin tech". I wouldn't even care if the have the money or not - that's their problem.

Oh, and I would only communicate through certified mail - phone calls are hard(er) to prove. :)
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
FSSO Repayment Cycle is now 129 days old....

It has been a struggle to keep my Manners PL in while stepping up the pressure with each email.

Kea Verweij, the Chaplain, is not the enemy, merely a heavily suppressed staff member with very little room for self-determinism. It is a shame to see how little free theta is left in someone with great potential who has dedicated the next billion years to the cult.

I am communicating to a social veneer which has a tone level of glee. She sounds bright and chirpy and responds to my emails after a five day delay with cheerfully vague assurances that something will happen soon.

At least she responds for which I am grateful. I am so grateful that I am extending her an offer to assist her in every way possible when she finally makes the decision to explore the world of independent scientology.

As for Ludwig Alpers, he must have been put in storage for the duration as he has not responded to my email at all. Either that or he is down behind his desk hiding from the waves of parishioners clamoring for refunds.

I am told by my friends who are close to the scene that sign ups for the Maiden Voyage are way down and so are starts on OT VIII.

That's good on one hand because fewer people are likely to be damaged by having out tech processes being run on them, but it reduces the money available to repay repayment claims.

What I could wish for is that a group of dedicated Kool-Aid drinkers would buy their OT VIII levels so I can get my repayment money. :whistling: That might be a win-win situation except that I would probably have to make up for the overt later in the game.

David St Lawrence
Old Auditor
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Certified Mail

Oh, and I would only communicate through certified mail - phone calls are hard(er) to prove. :)

Certified Mail by LRH policy is NOT signed for, so don't use that.

Fedex works, and I think there is a better way which I'll find out about soon
and post.

You are right about the routing forms, just refuse to do them.
The Chaplain helped with doing parts of it for their benefit.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Illegal Fee

Yeah, that's right. I remember seeing that now. I remembered 2% at a CLV org, but it could've been 3% or maybe it's 3% at a higher org. I don't remember, but yeah. It's on the RF. :no:

There is no policy to backup the fee which varies anyway.

No more than "Freeloader" debts.
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
Repayment cycle may be close to an end

I received two messages this weekend. The first was the CofS has secretly declared me, Big Whoop. I used the news to write a letter to all my friends telling them about my declare. I'm an official Indie now. :)

The second message was that the FSSO needed to trim down my repayment check because they discovered an extension course which had not been accounted for.

I had to sign a new waiver to account for the adjustment and I am told that the check will be sent out as soon as they receive my new waiver. (Done)

Today is day 133 of my repayment cycle. It appears that they will be paying me the full amount due and not attempting to impose a handling fee.

It has been a long cycle and I have learned much from it. If anyone needs help, I will be glad to provide advice but all of the data is already in this thread.
 
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