Fundamantal inconsistency concerning Scientology ethics and justice

[loose cannon]

This is a copy of an article on my blog:

Let me start with a couple of quotes:

ETHICS is a personal thing…
JUSTICE is the action of the group against the individual when he has failed to get his own ethics in…
–L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 15 Nov. 1972 II, Students Who Succeed
​

Now compare:

All Policy Letters headed “Justice” and the word “Justice” should be changed throughout to ETHICS.
–L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 22 Apr. 1965, Correction to All “Justice” Policy Letters
​

Do I need to explain why Scientology “ethics” system has become such a mess? By the way, note the time proximity of the HCO PL quoted from above to another screw-up called Keeping Scientology Working (HCO PL 7 Feb. 1965)

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Thanks for pointing that out, Cannon!

 

[Peter Soderqvist]

Justice systems have long been used as a substitute for ethics systems. But when you try to substitute ethics for justice, you get into trouble. Man has not had an actual workable way of applying ethics to himself. The subjects of ethics and justice have been terribly aberrated. We now have the technology of ethics and justice straightened out. This is the only road out on the subject that man has.
http://legacyimgs.lronhubbard.org/human/dyn6a.htm

Cover Letter from Mary Jo Leavitt
The Purpose of the Sea Org is to Put Ethics IN on the planet.
http://www.rediscoverscientology.com/mary-jo-leavitt.html

Soderqvist1: what a mess!

 

[loose cannon]

Justice systems have long been used as a substitute for ethics systems. But when you try to substitute ethics for justice, you get into trouble. Man has not had an actual workable way of applying ethics to himself. The subjects of ethics and justice have been terribly aberrated. We now have the technology of ethics and justice straightened out. This is the only road out on the subject that man has.

Yes, I know this text too, but I'm not sure where it comes from originally. Anyway thanks for putting your quotations here too.

 

[Petey C]

Religions don't need a justice system. That's provided by governments.

And IMO the Scn ethics system is one of the fundamental reasons organised Scientology is so depraved. The "tech" tech in and of itself is probably not destructive (even though I would never try it again), and the admin tech is misguided and ineffective for the most part. But what binds these two is ethics tech. It's applied to every personal and professional situation and is a stupid, ill-conceived, black and white "solution" for complex and subtle circumstances. For instance: the Scientological equation is: someone's sick = out-ethics = apply the appropriate condition. Bullshit. In the real world: someone's sick = something's wrong that can be physiological or psychological or environmental and needs to be fixed.

Think about how often someone gets into trouble for stats that are down. Yet there could be multiple reasons for this. Eg, the statistics for the position are inappropriately defined or not achievable or totally subjective. Because we live in a binary universe, there are two dimensions to everything including numerical statistics which go down is as inevitably as they go up. Sometimes someone else further up the production line fails to achieve the raw materials needed by the person down the line, and that person's production falls. Scientology never distinguishes between these greys but only sees the black and white up-ness or down-ness of a statistic. And if it's down, someone gets some form of ethics treatment.

I've said before that a wise old boss once told me that in any workplace, if there was a choice between labelling an event or series of actions a conspiracy or sheer incompetence, go for incompetence every time. It's so true. In Hubbard's case, as the inventor of all of this, it's both conspiracy AND incompetence. How could someone so supposedly brilliant come up with such a system like ethics that is both so lame and so callous at the same time? It certainly appeals to the evil in people who apply it to others.

 

[Leon]

Yes. Ethics and Justice are a complete mess in the CofS. There is no Ethics and there is no Justice. Only confusion.

But the subject of Ethics can be sorted out within the context of Scientology, and has been. Justice needs to be left to the courts.

 

[degraded being]

Yes. Ethics and Justice are a complete mess in the CofS. There is no Ethics and there is no Justice. Only confusion.

But the subject of Ethics can be sorted out within the context of Scientology, and has been. Justice needs to be left to the courts.

Wot?

 

[lotus]

This is a very important issue.

1) Definition of ethics has been corrupted from the real conventionnal definition
Conventionnal definition have more to do with moral sens of good or bad - vertue
but it remains a code of behavior or philosophy one apply freely from his own decision


2) Scientology , when offering it's div6 (introduction) courses offers, wha ''appear'' quite ''similar'' concept


3) the more you progress , in processing or with training, you the are introduced to the true concept of scamology ethics that is tied to a pseudo-emotional tone scale and pseudo categories of people good or SP's and you pseudo-condition PTS or anythingelse. These lead to prejudice agaist people and force ''ethics'' push on them.

ex: Put your ethincs in (to give money)
Put your ethicss in ( because you are sick)
We'll put you ethics in (ethics handling)
we'll put this SP's ethics in ( fair game)
This one is out-ethics
This one needs sec-check
This one need his O\W pulled

This prooving it is anything but ethics

4) When training on higher level you finally are really introduced in this Elite group, and endoctrined on the true purpose of scamology ethics :

wich is to remove counter-intention in the environement (counter intention about scamology)
and to bring a tool of forcing the technology all over the planet via the Sea
Org mission

5) For making ethics an efficient tool to serve only scamology goals, it has been designed with a huge amount of rules and policies and especially some like

- reward and penalties for low conditions
fair game
RPF
O\W
Sec Checking
KR

Anyone who is basically familiar with the subjects of ethics will recognized it is a coercicive mean to force obedience
in applying the cult own justice system to make people compliant about scientology goals (scamologist as well as wogs via ABLE groups)

It is very similar than a Totalitarian system justice

Some specialists on the subjects have studied LRH scriptures on it and it's easily found on internet.

That's my conclusion

 

[Petey C]

Good one, Lotus. Bottom line, "ethical behaviour" has no counterpart in Scientology although they sure like to "get ethics in".

In fact, that whole grammatical construction of "getting ____ in" whether it's TRs, ethics, tech, is pretty bizarre and as far as I know has no analogue in proper English.

 

[Peter Soderqvist]

Yes, I know this text too, but I'm not sure where it comes from originally. Anyway thanks for putting your quotations here too.

Soderqvist1: ” Ethics, Justice and the Dynamics by L. Ron Hubbard” can be found in his book; “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” or here online in his book “Scientology A New Slant on Life”! . L. Ron. Hubbard was a second year dropout from the University of Washington in the beginning of the thirties. Except manipulation, and pulp fiction this is exactly what you can expect from an D-student, and this incompetence together with his own put down of other workers in various fields which make his own writing satirical!

 

[GoNuclear]

What a bunch of namby pamby, panty waiste dilletantes! What a bunch of theetie weetie open minded cases! Such reasonableness! You people are all CI on my lines! You all must have other fish to fry!!!! I guess living your own lives and taking time to smell the flowers is more important to you than saving the planet and salvaging mankind! Well, let me give you espees a reality factor ... you won't HAVE a life to enjoy and there won't BE any flowers to smell or even TIME TO SMELL THEM pretty soon if the WOG world continues on its downward spiral to all out NUCLEAR WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me give you ANOTHER r-factor ... do you think this is the first time or first civilization this has happened to???????????? How about a few zillion times???????? Do you want to let society continue to dramatize this reactive, aberated nonsense????????????????????????? Maybe you do, but, I have MORE IMPORTANT things to do, like HELPING TO SALVAGE THE PLANET FROM THIS RUIN THAT YOU SEEM TO WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAMATIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION???????????????????????????????????????????????? WAKE THE FUCK UP, WE HAVE A PLANET TO SALVAGE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ethics are harsh for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF you had taken the time to get up the bridge and handle your case ... IF you knew what I knew ... you would probably tell me that I was TOO EASY ON YOU PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! You would probably demand ethics that were 10 TIMES AS HARSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunately, all that I am asking you to do is upgrade your IAS status. Yeah, it will take a few bucks, but so what? What good will they be if the planet blows up?????
See me about your ethics condition status after you see the IAS redge down the hall.

Pete

 

[loose cannon]

What a bunch of namby pamby, panty waiste dilletantes! What a bunch of theetie weetie open minded cases! Such reasonableness! You people are all CI on my lines! You all must have other fish to fry!!!! I guess living your own lives and taking time to smell the flowers is more important to you than saving the planet and salvaging mankind! Well, let me give you espees a reality factor ... you won't HAVE a life to enjoy and there won't BE any flowers to smell or even TIME TO SMELL THEM pretty soon if the WOG world continues on its downward spiral to all out NUCLEAR WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me give you ANOTHER r-factor ... do you think this is the first time or first civilization this has happened to???????????? How about a few zillion times???????? Do you want to let society continue to dramatize this reactive, aberated nonsense????????????????????????? Maybe you do, but, I have MORE IMPORTANT things to do, like HELPING TO SALVAGE THE PLANET FROM THIS RUIN THAT YOU SEEM TO WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAMATIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION???????????????????????????????????????????????? WAKE THE FUCK UP, WE HAVE A PLANET TO SALVAGE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ethics are harsh for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF you had taken the time to get up the bridge and handle your case ... IF you knew what I knew ... you would probably tell me that I was TOO EASY ON YOU PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! You would probably demand ethics that were 10 TIMES AS HARSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunately, all that I am asking you to do is upgrade your IAS status. Yeah, it will take a few bucks, but so what? What good will they be if the planet blows up?????
See me about your ethics condition status after you see the IAS redge down the hall.

Pete

 

[La La Lou Lou]

GoNuclear, I think if anyone ever spoke to me like that again I would just look them in the eye and tell them to sod off, and I can still shout as loud as any on purpose sea org officer.

 

[Gadfly]

What a bunch of namby pamby, panty waiste dilletantes! What a bunch of theetie weetie open minded cases! Such reasonableness! You people are all CI on my lines! You all must have other fish to fry!!!! I guess living your own lives and taking time to smell the flowers is more important to you than saving the planet and salvaging mankind! Well, let me give you espees a reality factor ... you won't HAVE a life to enjoy and there won't BE any flowers to smell or even TIME TO SMELL THEM pretty soon if the WOG world continues on its downward spiral to all out NUCLEAR WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me give you ANOTHER r-factor ... do you think this is the first time or first civilization this has happened to???????????? How about a few zillion times???????? Do you want to let society continue to dramatize this reactive, aberated nonsense????????????????????????? Maybe you do, but, I have MORE IMPORTANT things to do, like HELPING TO SALVAGE THE PLANET FROM THIS RUIN THAT YOU SEEM TO WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAMATIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION???????????????????????????????????????????????? WAKE THE FUCK UP, WE HAVE A PLANET TO SALVAGE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ethics are harsh for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF you had taken the time to get up the bridge and handle your case ... IF you knew what I knew ... you would probably tell me that I was TOO EASY ON YOU PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! You would probably demand ethics that were 10 TIMES AS HARSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunately, all that I am asking you to do is upgrade your IAS status. Yeah, it will take a few bucks, but so what? What good will they be if the planet blows up?????
See me about your ethics condition status after you see the IAS redge down the hall.

Pete

Thanks Pete for your Tone 40 confront! I laugh my ass off when I see your and other posts that are FILLED with the typical sort of Scientology "buttons". Where each "button" actually MEANS something to the over-indoctrinated Scientology member.

 

[lotus]

Oh!

It remembers me the ''old good days'' of IAS
Pretty much the same pitch

 

[lotus]

Good one, Lotus. Bottom line, "ethical behaviour" has no counterpart in Scientology although they sure like to "get ethics in".

In fact, that whole grammatical construction of "getting ____ in" whether it's TRs, ethics, tech, is pretty bizarre and as far as I know has no analogue in proper English.

What is amazing with scamology

are

the goons

who put the ethics in on good responsible people

to have them go bancrupt

get loan they can reimburse

disconnet with their family

Guard people in their prison

Harrass former member

push them to commis suicide

participate inhuman traficking

spy

get illegal informations on us

threaten people

and vidoe them to make their Squirrel busters retarded moovie

It's a pity - they call iit ethics to save this planet
the worst
Is miscavige finds his goons are the one to raise level of ethics
as Uncle Wrong taught him

God bless us

 

[Gottabrain]

This is a copy of an article on my blog:

Let me start with a couple of quotes:

ETHICS is a personal thing…
JUSTICE is the action of the group against the individual when he has failed to get his own ethics in…
–L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 15 Nov. 1972 II, Students Who Succeed
​

Now compare:

All Policy Letters headed “Justice” and the word “Justice” should be changed throughout to ETHICS.
–L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 22 Apr. 1965, Correction to All “Justice” Policy Letters
​

Do I need to explain why Scientology “ethics” system has become such a mess? By the way, note the time proximity of the HCO PL quoted from above to another screw-up called Keeping Scientology Working (HCO PL 7 Feb. 1965)

So it took L Ron SEVEN YEARS to clear up his MU?

 

[loose cannon]

So it took L Ron SEVEN YEARS to clear up his MU?

Maybe. That HCOB on study can be only a compilation of some older stuff.

The point is, however, that whether in 1972 Hubbard had cleared his MU or he had known the meaning all the way, he didn't reform / create the "ethics" system in Orgs to be truthfully called "justice system".

So it seems to me he created that mess intentionally.

 

[Stat]

L Ron was pretty good at writing and talking so much, it was hard to keep up with his out-flow on all kinds of profound matters and I think he knew it and played it well in his whole clusterfuck plan of body/mind/soul revelations, that later also expanded to the field of clusterfuck of ethics and morals and then to a clusterfuck of admin/organization. Sorry for using clusterfuck again. Perhaps, I should use mindfuck instead.

1. HH was the 1st person that helped me to realize the fact that LRH wrote a reference that opposite his every own reference on the key subject. Wonder why. Thanks, HH.

2. LRH was correct about his whole SP doctrine, but he implemented it for only ~2,5 %, ironically. And even that is questionable. The rest is politics. Scientology IS psychiatry and gulag and more its lame PR portrays to be against of. So low.

3. "Every Scientologist is an Ex-Scientologist, they just don't know it yet."

 

[Gottabrain]

Maybe. That HCOB on study can be only a compilation of some older stuff.

The point is, however, that whether in 1972 Hubbard had cleared his MU or he had known the meaning all the way, he didn't reform / create the "ethics" system in Orgs to be truthfully called "justice system".

So it seems to me he created that mess intentionally.

Yes. I was just kidding around. Actually, I noticed the same contradiction when I did the Dir I&R hat years ago.

L Ron was a master manipulator with words. Words and writing were his forte. Couldn't agree with you more, though I don't know how I lived with that contradiction at the time. I think I told myself a lot of people were writing for him. Oh well.