Gary Lerner has left the Church of Scientology

Terril park

Sponsor
one thing I noticed on these new people leaving and going over to the other side is that their declarations they make afterwards look and sound quite similar...wonder why?

Do they maybe get help writing these thingies?

They've had a similar experience of leaving a suppressive organisation
that trys to interfere with every aspect of their life. Also a similar
feeling that the tech they love has been destroyed.

Much as those who are fully ex, and post there stories here have much in common, though often with more horrific detail, which may be at least inn part
as multiple posts can be used over a relatively long period of time.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's at least a step in a less bad direction. I've heard of no stories of Marty committing the same crimes as the CofS in the present.

I agree. I mean it took me a couple of years to give it all up. Say what you want about Marty but joining "the Shack" is going from a high security prison to a no security prison. The bars and walls are gone. Of course a person so used to bars and walls may not notice that they are gone right away but it does mean another person now has the freedom to read, explore and believe what they want without whips and punishment. Or they could also keep believing the same old shit. You can lead a horse to water...
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I agree. I mean it took me a couple of years to give it all up. Say what you want about Marty but joining "the Shack" is going from a high security prison to a no security prison. The bars and walls are gone. Of course a person so used to bars and walls may not notice that they are gone right away but it does mean another person now has the freedom to read, explore and believe what they want without whips and punishment. Or they could also keep believing the same old shit. You can lead a horse to water...

^^^^
This
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
He hopped over the fence of the prison and made an escape but he's still wearing the shackles and prison uniform as a security blanket.

Right. And as soon as he finds a prison that confines him the way he thinks he should be confined, he'll check himself right in. After all, he never stole a single car for the first 20 years he was in jail... so surely jail has made him a better person.

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
It's at least a step in a less bad direction. I've heard of no stories of Marty committing the same crimes as the CofS in the present.

He censors comments that run counter to his views in order to portray the image that all of his readers agree with him. He believes that locking Lisa McPherson in a hotel room and not letting anyone speak to her was the proper way to address a psychotic break. He takes donations on his site, which costs nothing to run and nothing to read, which is an out-exchange condition (just like IAS donations).


If MR isn't committing *all* of the same crimes as the Co$, it's only because he's still starting out. He's certainly well on his way.

Personally, I think *anyone* who presents the "technology" of LRH as the proper way to run one's business, one's relationships or one's life is guilty of a crime. But that's just me.

EDIT: This sounds very angry, and I apologize for that. But what Marty is doing, leading people to believe they are out when they are still in, well, that just makes me angry. I have friends in Scientology and I want to see them out, but if I tell them how I feel, I lose them as friends *and* they are still in. That's frustrating. Very, very frustrating.

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
 
Last edited:
I wonder if the people who got out of the cult before Marty set up his shack were able to ditch *all* of the mind-fuck *because* there was no shack where they could sit around and talk about how the cool aide had been *tampered with*, as opposed to going on and finding out that it was shite through and through.

Some of them *might* raom around the internet and decide the shack is a bit too limiting as far deprogramming goes. But some will be reassured that Mans Only Hope is intact in the shack, so they will be loooong time residents there.

Sometimes I start thinking that "Of course most of them will move on before long, they are intelligent people, the stuff is out there for them to read..etc". But then I go over to the shack and read Marty's stuff, for example, that "jah"/ rastafarian whatever-it was ........and I read the responses of these high flying OT 5000 exes.....like a lot of severely mentally impaired unfortunates, drooling into their porridge...for the love of Marty.
 

TEoS

Patron with Honors
It's at least a step in a less bad direction. I've heard of no stories of Marty committing the same crimes as the CofS in the present.

IMHO it's a question of power and resources. I personally don't doubt for a second that Rathbun would "handle" his critics just as the CoS does, if he ever got into a similar kind of position as Miscavige. Thankfully, I think the possibility of that ever happening are as close to zero as doesn't matter.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
I wonder if the people who got out of the cult before Marty set up his shack were able to ditch *all* of the mind-fuck *because* there was no shack where they could sit around and talk about how the cool aide had been *tampered with*, as opposed to going on and finding out that it was shite through and through.
In my experience it is far more likely that they would not have left the Church of Scientology at all if they didn't have Marty's shack to go to. For years a major deterrent for people who contemplated leaving the COS was that they would be forever deprived of the "tech" and lose their "spiritual eternity." You may laugh, but that is what they believed and what kept them in the COS. I personally knew a number of people who were unhappy with heavy regging, fending off Sea Org recruitment of their kids, etc. but wouldn't leave because they couldn't conceive practicing Scientology outside the Church.

In addition, prior to Marty's shack many people faced a life of true isolation and loneliness if the left the COS. All of their friends were Scientologists and had been for years. Their family members were Scientologists, who frequently couldn't be convinced to leave because: (a) they would be deprived of the tech and lose their spiritual eternities; and (b) they would deprived of their friends. Marty's shack gives them an community to go to so they won't be alone.

Marty's shack apparently gives them a community to go to that is more effective, welcoming or, to be frank, seductive. Perhaps in part because of attitudes like yours and, to be honest, mine in frequent past posts.

Bitter tasting medicine is not effective if you can't convince an adult to take it. Or if they are told, or the clear implication is, that they were morons.

/
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
He censors comments that run counter to his views in order to portray the image that all of his readers agree with him.

So what? It's his own fuckin' blog. He does allow some dissent, but it's his pool and thus his rules.
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
^^^^^
I agree with What Kha Kahn said.

Anyone who comes to L.A. can spend a few days with me. I will introduce you around to both Indies and former CoS members who do not want to do any Scientology. These people are changed. They have not traded one prison for another. That view was perhaps true in 2005, but the transition experience out of CoS is radically different, better, faster, and easier in 2010.

What changed my mind is that I personally know people and situations Marty, Mike, and other Indies have helped. I have sent people to the Indies for help and they were helped.

If Scientologists can change, I realized that I can change as a critic. It does not bother me if people want to practice the Tech. My mantra has always been that CoS must be dismantled in its present form. CoS has to stop viciously harming people. DM is the main cause of human suffering in the CoS.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Swift and KK are right on the money.

While I disagree strongly with a lot of what is said on Marty's blog I respect their right to say it and I appreciate that the shack is there as a way stop for those who need a softer landing than ESMB.

While there are folk like Jim Logan who I tried to challenge to a debate here not so long ago I hold great hope for others inasfar as them undoing the Hubbararian programming. With out the enforcement and the inabilkity to openly discuss the tech various failings can and will be exposed....enter the cognitive dissonance.

Without that blog and the independants right now DM would be all over us here in Aus too, and his church would be a lot stronger than it is today.

I'm very grateful to Mike and Marty for their work. :D
 
So what? It's his own fuckin' blog. He does allow some dissent, but it's his pool and thus his rules.

The "so what" is that even though he has left the Church, the Church tactics still exist. Geir did the same thing.

For any organized effort to promote auditing and training, in or outside of the Church, the house of cards must never be exposed.

Even if the Church goes down and disappears completely, any version of Scientology that rises from the ashes will inevitably, in the long run, have to resort to the same tactics as the old Church.

Some form of disconnection or ostrasizing will be needed, some form of censorship, some form of KRs, and definately some form of the policy KSW.

It is the only way the inherently destructive nature of Scientology can survive.

They have a right and are free to do it, but we have a right and are free to point it out to others.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
So what? It's his own fuckin' blog. He does allow some dissent, but it's his pool and thus his rules.

Very true. The problem is that Marty claims to be bringing his readers the truth. He's not. He's bringing them an altered version of the truth. Does he have a right to censor? Of course. Does he have a right to lie? That's more difficult to answer. I suppose that yes, he has the right to lie his pants off. But if he were charging for his service, taking money in exchange for delivering the truth, he'd be guilty of fraud. It's a very fine line. Certainly, what he's doing isn't moral or ethical. (Unless you're talking about Scientology ethics.)

I have my own blog. Do I have a right to censor comments that disagree with me? Yes. Do I? No, because I, like Marty, have promised my readers the truth, and to censor opposing viewpoints would violate the promises I've made to my readers.

Besides, I think my readers are smart enough to be able to pick out the truth from the lies. Marty doesn't. Or maybe he does, but he knows the lies are his. :)

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
DM is the main cause of human suffering in the CoS.

And that's where I think you're wrong, Swift. I suppose that DM is the main cause of human suffering *today*, but that's only because Hubbard is dead. There is overwhelming evidence that the Church was every bit as abusive and harmful under LRH's rule. The Church's most harmful practices are codified in the policies that LRH wrote. Inhuman conditions in the RPF, cruel and unusual punishment, inadequate and unsanitary child care, disconnection, unhealthy medical advice, dishonest recruiting practices, even coerced abortions - according to the people who were there, *all* of these things happened under LRH.

The idea that DM is just some SP who came along and started messing up the Church is only wishful thinking. Hubbard was every bit the bastard that DM is, possibly more so. DM learned from the master.

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very true. The problem is that Marty claims to be bringing his readers the truth. He's not. He's bringing them an altered version of the truth.
http://caliwog.wordpress.com

Well I would guess that means that you know what "the truth" is in order to know that it's been altered. Illuminate us. Any dox?

And although a lot of us don't like Marty's style and a lot of the things he says, like it or not the guy has made an impact over the last couple of years.
SP Times, Nightline, BBC doc coming soon etc. And I do believe there are some that would still be in if he wasn't there and many of those wouldn't do well at ESMB. For now at least.

I also have seen nothing to suggest that Rathbun either has the intention or capacity to create an organization anything like what CofS became with all of it's daily criminality. In ten years time "Indies" will be envious of Christian Science Reading Rooms for their numbers.

The sad thing for Marty though is that as soon as this cult's gone the demand for his services will go through the floor.
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
Well I would guess that means that you know what "the truth" is in order to know that it's been altered. Illuminate us. Any dox?

Tons, starting with the crimes he blames solely on DM which in fact originated with LRH. I'm not going to do the work for you. The evidence is all over the Interwebs, all you need is Google and a bit of spare time.

like it or not the guy has made an impact over the last couple of years. SP Times, Nightline, BBC doc coming soon etc.

Agreed - I started out as a huge Marty fan. I admired him for having the cojones to stand up to the Church. But the more I read, the more I realized what he was trying to do: Whitewash Hubbard by shifting the blame for the Church's crimes to DM. Marty's media interviews only talked about David Miscavige. One wonders what would have happened if they asked Marty about LRH and then did a bit of follow-up research. Lucky for Marty, they didn't. But I'm sure that will change soon... like my old man used to say, shit always floats to the top.

And I do believe there are some that would still be in if he wasn't there

With all due respect, if a person still believes in Hubbard and Scientology, that person is still "in."

I also have seen nothing to suggest that Rathbun either has the intention or capacity to create an organization anything like what CofS became with all of it's daily criminality.

For me, the first big hint was his position on Lisa McPherson. He doesn't believe she died because she got the Introspection Rundown instead of proper medical and psychological care. He believes she died because DM altered the tech. This is all on his blog.

Does he have the intention to create an organization as criminal as the Co$? Marty believes in LRH's tech, which is the source of most of Co$'s criminality. You can't create a proper Scientology organization WITHOUT the criminality. It's written into the tech, and KSW says the tech is infallible and unalterable.

The sad thing for Marty though is that as soon as this cult's gone the demand for his services will go through the floor.

I hope you are right. In my opinion, as long as Marty still offers his services, the Cult of Scientology still exists.

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
 

Veda

Sponsor
People have been leaving the CofS since 1954 when Scientology was incorporated as a Church. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered being J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine).

Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.")

Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953. There were many others.

In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.

Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Sec Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Are you a pervert" or "Have you ever had any critical thoughts about LRH?" was not for them.

By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the now confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left. Amongst them was the first person to have be a 'Doctor of Scientology' (the Class 12 of that day), Jack Horner.

In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.

By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.

John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear' and the 'Pope' of Scientology, left.

Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course then, upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.

Many others left.

Then came the RPF and the RPF's RPF, and more left.

By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left.

Then, in July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of previously secret Scientology documents, including Hubbard's paranoid ramblings, and his super-secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.

Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there, and more people left.

This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the first Mission Holders Meeting by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the 2nd Mission Holders meeting, and more left.

Then, roughly around that time, came the partial unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act, and more left.

By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.

Then came books like, 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.

Then came the Internet.

Well, you get the idea.
 

Carmel

Crusader
People have been leaving the CofS since 1954 when Scientology was incorporated as a Church. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered being J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine).

Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.")

Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953. There were many others.

In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.

Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Sec Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Are you a pervert" or "Have you ever had any critical thoughts about LRH?" was not for them.

By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the now confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left. Amongst them was the first person to have be a 'Doctor of Scientology' (the Class 12 of that day), Jack Horner.

In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.

By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.

John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear' and the 'Pope' of Scientology, left.

Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course, then upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.

Many others left.

Then came the RPF and the RPF's RPF, and more left.

By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left.

Then, in July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of previously secret Scientology documents, including Hubbard's paranoid ramblings, and his super-secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.

Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there, and more people left.

This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the first Mission Holders Meeting by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the 2nd Mission Holders meeting, and more left.

Then, roughly around that time, came the unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act, and more left.

By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.

Then came books like, 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.

Then came the Internet.

Well, you get the idea.
Yeah, get the idea. Good post. For those only departing the CofS now, you could say that it was about time.

It seems though that this guy hasn't only just departed the CofS. He addressed his post to Marty, a couple of others, and and to "so many others here that I’ve read and blogged with".......If he's been blogging there, then it's not like he has only just left the CofS.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Swift and KK are right on the money.

While I disagree strongly with a lot of what is said on Marty's blog I respect their right to say it and I appreciate that the shack is there as a way stop for those who need a softer landing than ESMB.

While there are folk like Jim Logan who I tried to challenge to a debate here not so long ago I hold great hope for others inasfar as them undoing the Hubbararian programming. With out the enforcement and the inabilkity to openly discuss the tech various failings can and will be exposed....enter the cognitive dissonance.

Without that blog and the independants right now DM would be all over us here in Aus too, and his church would be a lot stronger than it is today.

I'm very grateful to Mike and Marty for their work. :D

Me too :)

And I agree with Kha Khan, and for once with J. Swift.

If I travel to LA again Swift it would be a pleasure to meet you. :)

I've been promoting the FZ for a decade. Almost always on hostile forums, and this is the least hostile. Well, except for Geirs And David st Laurences
which are very new. I havn't attracted the people Marty has. Well
some who now follow Marty's blog more then the FZ forums.

I'm loose canon material, I've posted critiques of KSW 1, comments
hoistile to various admin policies, been moderated many times on stricter
FZ forums and so on. Get snippy comments and replies to mails from Marty.

So I'm very glad Marty is reaching the parts I don't reach.
[ think Heinikan :) ]

But I've always done connections. Marty's people and the freezone are connecting up, whether anyone likes it or not. And I do, and act to this and encourage it wherever possible. :)

For me it was two years before I found some equilibrium between the
" true believer [ approx] mentality" and a more iconoclastic stance.

I consider myself a fast, very fast, learner.

Really it would be good to have " Marty's people" post here. Good dialogue.

It needs way more respect though. Think about it....
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

These people are changed.

-snip-

the transition experience out of CoS is radically different, better, faster, and easier in 2010.

Marty, Mike, and other Indies have helped. I have sent people to the Indies for help and they were helped.

If Scientologists can change, I realized that I can change as a critic.

-snip-

DM is the main cause of human suffering in the CoS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Env5KQWNlOU

Must be top clicked. :)
 
Top