Geir Isene has a new Natterboard!

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Geir, it is a slippery slope once impatience begins to slide into annoyance because that ultimately ends in defiant arrogance.

As a free individual, you may not feel you "owe" an answer to anyone.

But, when you adopted a cause to lead CoS Scientologists to a new, independent bridge, there is an expectation of leadership and scholarship.

It includes, near-infinite patience.

Whatever your message, it's badly tarnished by such exchanges. You may wish to rethink this approach to others who do not agree with everything you say if you truly want to be a leader in a new spiritual movement.

Nice statememt!

The irony is that his statement would have been deleted as an ad hominen attack on his board if it was made by a critic. Or worse, if a critic on his board pointed the statement out as being snide then the critic would have been censored.

Scientology, by its very nature, is incompatible with a pluralistic society.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Zinjifar]

I don't care what Ron would approve.

Thank you! And, congratulations.

However, this now opens up a whole *new* can of worms:

With Ron, we had a somewhat 'clear' understanding of His goals and aims, although He was less than candid in His official statements. And, of course, there's the whole 'hidden data line' of advices etc. which are only slowly being revealed.

But, your forum serves a wide range of people, from those who also may not care about Ron's approval to those who put Ron's goals as paramount. Including 'Keeping Scientology Working'. And, naturally, this is going to influence not only the tone of the forum but the handling of discussion, since full implementation of KSW also means *hammering out* any contrary position, which means, that to keep the KSW crowd happy, the lowest common denominator of acceptable opinion will have to be KSW.

So, the wide range of opinion and discussion will be a moot point if only the narrow 'KSW Acceptable' band is allowed.

In any case I'm glad to see the existence of the board, but, I'd be interested in your own mission statement; your own guidelines and aspirations for the forum, and for that matter, your own goals and intentions for what you see as 'Scientology', since we apparently can't reference Ron's to infer yours.

You might be able to avoid the pesky irritation of other people inferring and implying and 'dubbing in' your own positions if you just *told* us

Zinj

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

IMO, part of the situation is that no matter how many times Geir or anyone else in a similar position posts his intentions, some people are going to keep asking/demanding to know what they are and in many cases, are going to make stuff up. I've seen this before.

Maybe "some people" see some hypocracy between the intentions he stated and his actions.

I don't care about double standards, and I could care less about insults, it is the hypocracy that I find annoying.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Zinjifar]

Man, this brings back memories!! People asking ex CofS Scn'ists their intentions. Like the internet is somebody's virgin daughter or somethin'.

Geir still finds use in Scn tech. Geir is highly trained in Scn tech and is, at this point, uninterested in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Geir has a forum wherein Scn tech is discussed. Critical posts are allowed. I think Geir's intentions toward yer virgin daughter are quite plain. Her cherry remains unpopped.

And, now *you* deign to infer Geir's position for him

Which is the crux of the problem and a core element of the mindfuck of Scientology; if you present a mystery sandwich, everybody gets to fill in the blanks, but, it still doesn't tell you what's in it.

Zinj

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

IMO, part of the situation is that no matter how many times Geir or anyone else in a similar position posts his intentions, some people are going to keep asking/demanding to know what they are and in many cases, are going to make stuff up. I've seen this before.

That's what happens when you set up an "INFORMATION BOOTH" in a busy place. People come up and ask questions.

Anyone who doesn't like answering the same kinds of questions all day should find other work.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

------snippety snip---------
You might be able to avoid the pesky irritation of other people inferring and implying and 'dubbing in' your own positions if you just *told* us

anticipatory drum roll.......................................

(why does the phrase anti-climactic response keep coming to mind?)

 

[Isene]

Attempt at clarification

@The Anabaptist Jacques: I have no idea about that post of yours being mod'ed. Please send me an e-mail with the data so I can clear it up with the moderator that did it. Btw; I just lost the most pro-LRH moderator, so it may not be moving that fast toward a CoS 2.0 as some people here fear

As for my intentions:
First read this: My positions
Then I reiterate my intentions:

1. Help the public at large differentiate between Scientology and the Church of Scientology
2. Stop the abuses perpetrated by the Church of Scientology and get the accountable to own up
3. Free the Scientology philosophy so everyone can freely use and benefit from it

Then read this:
LRH4ALL, Monopoly on freedom and Open sourcing Scientology.

Then realize I am not looking to lead any movement. Also, I am notorious for not caring what others think of me - not COB (when I was in), not LRH (wherever he is) and nobody on this board. I am who I am and act according to my personal integrity. I owe no answers to anyone. I answer what I feel like. Assumptions are inherently risky, often faulty and silly. I am an explorer of free will, a hunter of logical fallacies - mine included. I stand corrected for any wrongs I do or have done. I am constantly seeking to improve. Opposition is helpful in this regard.

And last but not least (as the thread topic dictates): The rules on scnforum.org are the rules - no more, no less. They are to be enforced and obeyed. Moderators are to keep within these simple rules when mod'ing. The will be corrected if not.

People willing to change their viewpoints will feel at home. Missionaries may not.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

That's what happens when you set up an "INFORMATION BOOTH" in a busy place. People come up and ask questions.

Anyone who doesn't like answering the same kinds of questions all day should find other work.

I've seen people ask and ask again and ask again and reiterate "why are you doing this" type questions to non CofS Scn'ists after being answered and answered and answered. Information booth or no information booth.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

And, now *you* deign to infer Geir's position for him

Which is the crux of the problem and a core element of the mindfuck of Scientology; if you present a mystery sandwich, everybody gets to fill in the blanks, but, it still doesn't tell you what's in it.

Zinj

Nope. Just discussing what's being said.

 

[Veda]

Help the public at large differentiate between Scientology and the Church of Scientology AND IDENTIFY THE HIDDEN HUBBARD TEACHINGS AND HIDDEN HUBBARD AGENDA.

Stop the abuses perpetrated by the Church of Scientology REMOVE ITS TAX EXEMPTION AND ITS CLOAK OF RELIGION and get the accountable to own up EVEN THOUGH IT'S TOO LATE FOR HUBBARD TO BE SUBPOENAED AND BROUGHT BEFORE A COURT OR COME CLEAN OR APOLOGIZE. BY THE WAY, HAS MARTY RATHBUN RESPONDED TO GERRY ARMSTRONG'S LETTER YET?

Free AND EXPOSE the ENTIRE Scientology philosophy so everyone can freely use and benefit from it AND PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM IT.

Sounds good. Keep up the good work.

 

[nozeno]

@The Anabaptist Jacques: I have no idea about that post of yours being mod'ed. Please send me an e-mail with the data so I can clear it up with the moderator that did it. Btw; I just lost the most pro-LRH moderator, so it may not be moving that fast toward a CoS 2.0 as some people here fear

As for my intentions:
First read this: My positions
Then I reiterate my intentions:

1. Help the public at large differentiate between Scientology and the Church of Scientology
2. Stop the abuses perpetrated by the Church of Scientology and get the accountable to own up
3. Free the Scientology philosophy so everyone can freely use and benefit from it

Then read this:
LRH4ALL, Monopoly on freedom and Open sourcing Scientology.

Then realize I am not looking to lead any movement. Also, I am notorious for not caring what others think of me - not COB (when I was in), not LRH (wherever he is) and nobody on this board. I am who I am and act according to my personal integrity. I owe no answers to anyone. I answer what I feel like. Assumptions are inherently risky, often faulty and silly. I am an explorer of free will, a hunter of logical fallacies - mine included. I stand corrected for any wrongs I do or have done. I am constantly seeking to improve. Opposition is helpful in this regard.

And last but not least (as the thread topic dictates): The rules on scnforum.org are the rules - no more, no less. They are to be enforced and obeyed. Moderators are to keep within these simple rules when mod'ing. The will be corrected if not.

People willing to change their viewpoints will feel at home. Missionaries may not.

I hope that some day you make it out of the self help section the bookstore. It's really not as scary out here as you think.

You really don't know how ridiculous all this sounds to people who were never in your cult and people who were in, escaped and have the ability to see it for what it is.

You should get yourself a TV, open a newspaper or magazine or just "obnose" (silly little word) what's going on around you. 98% of the worlds population never heard of and never will have heard of your cult before they die.

Get over yourself already.



​

 

[nozeno]

Additional deep thoughts from nozeno

Mr. Isene I have just a few more things to say before I get down to my nap.

I'm a simple guy and I look at things simply. I got involved with this cult a long time ago. Many things were promised to me that were never and could never be delivered.

My simple point is, that if this subject worked as advertised, people would use it, have it used on them, their friends would see it and marvel at what it is and what it can do. People would be beating the doors down to get it in the freezone, the clamzone or through the criminal "church." In case you haven't noticed, that isn't happening. When they're standing outside your door like you're giving away free iPhones, you'll know you have something worthwhile.

Have you looked outside your door lately?

There's an app for that.

 

[anon2487]

Well Geir, it might help if you *told* us your intentions. After all, Ron did, (although he tried to bury some of the early/core aspirations in the Affirmations.)

Do you think that Ron would approve of 'downgrading' Keeping Scientology Working? Or, are you saying that you don't care what Ron would approve?

Zinj

Thing is - and this is purely my take - if Geir is sincere in his aims, and personally I absolutely believe that he is: then he's in a difficult situation. The truth is the truth is the truth, but the board is in it's formative stages, and to attract the type of people that hopefully the board will reach, then as much as I dilike the concept of gradients (when they relate to the truth); people who've bought the party line for so long, are not gonna wanna hear that KSW causes a huge amount of damage, due to it's nature, and the context in which the policy was created

Whether this is a view that Geir agrees with I've not idea. But as far as Geir's "alleged intentions," then forget about the words, and watch what the feet are doingl. If you do, then I believe that the only conclusion you can draw, is that Geir is a sincere guy, with a huge amount of personal integrity, who will do what he believes is right.

KSW the text is one thing, but if you truly do want to Keep Scientlogy Working, then those three letters alone, combined with a desire to stop the abuses and criminality, are the one thing that really will do what it says on the tin: Keep Scientology Working.

 

[Terril park]

Geir, it is a slippery slope once impatience begins to slide into annoyance because that ultimately ends in defiant arrogance. (see Tom Cruise with Matt Lauer)

As a free individual, you may not feel you "owe" an answer to anyone.

But, when you adopted a cause to enlighten CoS Scientologists to a newly configured independent bridge, there is an expectation of leadership and scholarship.

It includes near-infinite patience. And direct, clear answers to questions of all kinds.

Whatever your message, it's badly tarnished by such exchanges as the one above with Veda. You may wish to rethink this approach to others who do not agree with everything you say if you truly want to be a leader in a new spiritual movement.

Veda uses black PR constantly. His perogative.

Geir is not playing.

You too make assumptions. Has Geir put up a shingle saying he wishes to be a leader of a new spiritual movement?

Silly man! thats obviously my hat.

You got problems with smart OT VIII's calling people out of the church?

In Korea, such would be entitled as national treasures.

Here is an URL for one such national treasure. May your horizons be expanded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBR980uFSJE

 

[Terril park]

Note I wasn't commenting re the conductor in the penguin suit.

Its the devastating women who rocks!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Hey Terril P.............

You make too make assumptions.

No assumptions, only questions.

Has Geir put up a shingle saying he wishes to be a leader of a new spiritual movement?

No shingle, only obvious that he IS one of the Indy Bridge leaders.

You got problems with smart OT VIII's calling people out of the church?

No problem, only "smart OT VIII's" that call people out of the church and into yet another church that claims to make smart OT VIIIs.

May your horizons be expanded.

No invoice? Sure, thanks!

 

[Alanzo]

Thing is - and this is purely my take - if Geir is sincere in his aims, and personally I absolutely believe that he is: then he's in a difficult situation. The truth is the truth is the truth, but the board is in it's formative stages, and to attract the type of people that hopefully the board will reach, then as much as I dilike the concept of gradients (when they relate to the truth); people who've bought the party line for so long, are not gonna wanna hear that KSW causes a huge amount of damage, due to it's nature, and the context in which the policy was created

Whether this is a view that Geir agrees with I've not idea. But as far as Geir's "alleged intentions," then forget about the words, and watch what the feet are doingl. If you do, then I believe that the only conclusion you can draw, is that Geir is a sincere guy, with a huge amount of personal integrity, who will do what he believes is right.

KSW the text is one thing, but if you truly do want to Keep Scientlogy Working, then those three letters alone, combined with a desire to stop the abuses and criminality, are the one thing that really will do what it says on the tin: Keep Scientology Working.

I agree, Anon2487.

Very well put.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Mr. Isene I have just a few more things to say before I get down to my nap.I'm a simple guy and I look at things simply. I got involved with this cult a long time ago. Many things were promised to me that were never and could never be delivered.My simple point is, that if this subject worked as advertised, people would use it, have it used on them, their friends would see it and marvel at what it is and what it can do. People would be beating the doors down to get it in the freezone, the clamzone or through the criminal "church." In case you haven't noticed, that isn't happening. When they're standing outside your door like you're giving away free iPhones, you'll know you have something worthwhile. Have you looked outside your door lately?There's an app for that.

Ooooops, you are walking on scientology's sacred burial ground, where the holiest of the holy secrets is buried.

It's so secret that no one has ever seen it with their own eyes. But I am 100% certain that it's there for sure, just like the scriptures say.

It's called OT.

Nozeno, to save your eternity you must remorsefully repent, relent & retrain!

 

[Terril park]

Hey Terril P.............


No assumptions, only questions.

Your post 539 didn't seem to have any questions. Or was it
another post?

No shingle, only obvious that he IS one of the Indy Bridge leaders.

Ya know the guys a total upstart and so quickly he's upstaged me!

Drat! And he already has your Imprimatur.

No problem, only "smart OT VIII's" that call people out of the church and into yet another church that claims to make smart OT VIIIs.

Shit! All these new comers are seen to be the new Messiah, and I who've been digging ditches for a decade is sidelined. Its not fair!

No invoice? Sure, thanks!

No its free. Its U-tube. And truly humbly tendered as a gift to mankind!

I know some weirdo Korean tradition of folk song is not everyone's cup
of tea. Cos those not Korean mostly never drank it. The song has wonderful melodies.

The singer and her interpretation is devastating and awesome. For me its on the level of Bach's Dona nobis pacem, and I can give no higher praise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWY8UrYFJc

 

[degraded being]

Speaking as one who has had extensive experience with that accusation-- I will say that if one calls someone to account then one should not be surprised if that person rebuts accusations and clarifies what he or she did or did not say.

What I was talking about was the gambit of leaving something ultimately, unsaid, and persisting with that.
It leaves the other communicator having to assume, but not feeling right about assuming, and when more context is asked for, yet again, the "unsaid" thing/thing leaves that feeling that the comm is not complete. IMO it's a type of with hold ( but I don't attach any scientology style "overt" significance to it.

And I was not talking about you fluff. It's true I have been frustrated with you at times, but whatever that was about it is definitely not the same thing as mentioned above.