Geir Isene has a new Natterboard!

[Fancy]

I know what you are saying and it will take him time to decompress. I know it did for me and will adjust in time to how things really work in the real world. I know how it is.

Yes I am a Trekkie. I know about forums and I don't like it but it is a fact of net life.

Most Scientologists if they are willing to look will find the info as you say.

I had my say and I let Geir figure it out by himself for that is the only thing that will work for him.

Barb

Fancy!! You're a Trekie! All forums fight like that imo. The only one I never saw a fight on was Pete's Pond on the National Geographic web page. lol

I think Isene is basically worried about the confidential materials being discussed. Don't want any scientologists freaking out or anything.

If they get curious enough they can find all the OT levels on the internet all by themselves. We all know this. Isene may not.

I think he is just trying to keep it as stress free for people just leaving or people still in as possible.

I hope it does well.

 

[Rmack]

Ad hom is not really a good form of rebuttal.
What about the point I raised?
Perhaps you might read your own sig line.
Just to refresh your memory:

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation without investigation."
Herbert Spencer

BTW, I've investigated this issue six ways from Sunday for decades now. Both from inside and outside the cult.



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[byte301]

I would ask you what an electronic incident is, but you'd never see my question because it's against the rules to talk about Hubbard's con game ... but then again I would have never seen your introduction in order to ask the question. Wow I feel so spirituality enlightened now

Thanks Ron

If he knew what eletronic incident he was stuck in he wouldn't be stuck in it would he?

Anyway, you should ask George, the batshit insane scilon about it since he's the one who said Ax was stuck in the first place.

 

[Panda Termint]

First, my apologies for the 'ad hominem' remarks. Had to look that one up. I was a bit tired and had a few glasses of wine (forgive me, for I have zinned!)

No worries.

I think your trying to pick gnat shit outta pepper here.

If he was trying to say attempting to solve it was dangerous, but hearing about was not, wtf is it such a huge secret in the cult? I heard (in Bent's book, I believe) that once someone let a bunch of OT III info get sucked out a car window on the freeway, and they had a slew of S.laves O.rgs out there looking for it.

And, do you think that no one, even people who still believe in Sci never attempted to 'solve' it by whatever means? And if so, did they ever get sick?

I'm not arguing as to the validity (or not) of the data. I'm simply stating that "reading/hearing about" the data is NOT what causes the supposed reactions warned about by Hubbard. When someone attempts to figure it all out and solve it is when they *may* experience these things. Veda's definition of "solve" is not how most people approach these materials.
Ask around, I have.

We've had this discussion many times on ESMB and I've told about some of the VERY sick PCs that I've encountered when I was working as an AO Review Auditor. There was no doubting the degree of illness and spin these poor souls were experiencing but I happen to think it's probably more likely the result of an "installed phobia" as stated by Alanzo/Zinj/DullOldFart et al.

Laffy told us the real reason he kept it secret; 'mystery is the glue that sticks thetans to things' or some such. He made it such a huge mystery so that people would mortgage their houses, hand over their kids college funds, etc, just to solve the big mystery, NOT that it was any danger to anyone under any circumstances. This is the reason for the fanatical secrecy and attempts to stop the spread of knowledge about this story, which should be obvious to anyone not taken in by one of the greatest con men of the last century.

Yes, scientology as practiced by the CofS is a marketing exercise.

Why did Tommy Davis walk off from that interview with Bashir (correct?) when he mentioned Zenu unless they maintain that even mentioning names from the story is some kind of terrible thing to do?

Because Tommy can't help being an idiot! I've seen formerly-respected OT Celebrities totally blow their credibility by lying straight-faced to an Interviewer and stating that they'd never heard of this stuff.

It never happened. It's a bad science fiction story that doesn't have the power to do anyone harm no matter what they try to do with it. Unless you count your sides aching from laughter.

Another reason is that the vast majority of people would never swallow such a bunch of crap if they were not thoroughly indoctrinated to buy everything Hubbard said as gospel truth first.

That seems to be the general consensus.

 

[Zinjifar]

Yes, scientology as practiced by the CofS is a marketing exercise.

I know many 'OTs'. I have yet to see *any* evidence that Scientology, not jus the 'church' of Scientology is *anything* but a fraudulent marketing exercise.

Including you Panda, much as I may like and respect you.

The only actual 'product' of Scientology, besides 'Ex Scientologists' is any number of people who *think* Scientology Works.

Nobody not subjected to the 'training' believes that.

It's like painting new numbers on your speedometer to make your car go faster.

Zinj

 

[Panda Termint]

Did I forget to mention the word "fraudulent"?
I must have been thinking of something else.
I'm sure there are many people practicing scn who think that it is actually achieving its stated aims and claims, I'm no longer one of them.

 

[Zinjifar]

Did I forget to mention the word "fraudulent"?
I must have been thinking of something else.
I'm sure there are many people practicing scn who think that it is actually achieving its stated aims and claims, I'm no longer one of them.

Mea Culpa, but, it was *you* who said 'as practiced by yadda yadda...'

I'm a bit of a stickler on language

Zinj

 

[Rmack]

We've had this discussion many times on ESMB and I've told about some of the VERY sick PCs that I've encountered when I was working as an AO Review Auditor. There was no doubting the degree of illness and spin these poor souls were experiencing but I happen to think it's probably more likely the result of an "installed phobia" as stated by Alanzo/Zinj/DullOldFart et al.

I suspect it could also have to do with the psychic ambivalence that is forced on them; "I have to believe this stuff, but every last vestige of common sense left to me is screaming that this is bullshit, but I've paid so much money, and spent so much time....." Stress can indeed make you sick.

Yes, scientology as practiced by the CofS is a marketing exercise.

Sorry, but that sounds suspiciously like the old, moldy excuse that true believers drag out every time something bad about the cult is not able to be avoided. "It isn't what Ron meant it to be!"

Bullshit. Rather, I would say Scientology as designed by Laffy is a marketing exercise. I was there, read the bulletins and everything. To quote the ol' bastard; 'MONEY repeat MONEY repeat MONEY repeat MONEY....'

Because Tommy can't help being an idiot! I've seen formerly-respected OT Celebrities totally blow their credibility by lying straight-faced to an Interviewer and stating that they'd never heard of this stuff.

Yeah. People are ready to completely compromise their credibility in an attempt to dead-agent the broad dissemination of this crock of shit.

Come on, do you really think it's all because someone might try to 'solve' it and get sick? If that's so, then it should be readily apparent that even when tens of thousands of people hear about it, no one ever tries to 'solve' it, so why keep it secret?



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[Panda Termint]

Mea Culpa, but, it was *you* who said 'as practiced by yadda yadda...'

I'm a bit of a stickler on language

Zinj

Fair enough!
It wasn't a general comment, it was a specific reply to the Rmack paragraph I was quoting re: the CofS selling mystery sandwiches.

 

[Zinjifar]

The *Church* sells 'Scientology Brand' mystery sandwiches.

So does anybody selling Scientology Mystery Sandwiches.

anybody

Zinj

 

[Panda Termint]

(what you said)

You seem to have mistaken me for someone else. I'm not arguing that it's a valid/invalid reason for the obviously compromised "secrecy" of these materials.

What I'm saying, for the last time, is that most words in the English language have a precise meaning and that "read/hear about" is not what Hubbard said about the "dangers" of premature exposure to these materials.

 

[Rmack]

You seem to have mistaken me for someone else. I'm not arguing that it's a valid/invalid reason for the obviously compromised "secrecy" of these materials.

What I'm saying, for the last time, is that most words in the English language have a precise meaning and that "read/hear about" is not what Hubbard said about the "dangers" of premature exposure to these materials.

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. It's plain to me that this is not only what he intended it to mean, but also what all the culties have took it to mean ever since.



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[Panda Termint]

The *Church* sells 'Scientology Brand' mystery sandwiches.

So does anybody selling Scientology Mystery Sandwiches.

anybody

Zinj

Truedat!

 

[Panda Termint]

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. It's plain to me that this is not only what he intended it to mean, but also what all the culties have took it to mean ever since.

Fair enough, I never took it to mean that.
When I originally read it, I word-cleared "solve".

 

[Rmack]

Fair enough, I never took it to mean that.
When I originally read it, I word-cleared "solve".

Well, to quote Led Zepplin; 'There's a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure, 'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.'

It seems that just reading the material could easily fit the common definition of 'Solve'; 'to clear up or understand something, to find the explanation for'

It proports to 'solve' the reason why the world is so wacky with this lame-ass sci fi story.

I don't see it meaning going into some kind of cult reverie, or attempting to 'audit' it or anything like that. Not from the plain meaning of the word.



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[Panda Termint]

Well, to quote Led Zepplin; 'There's a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure, 'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.'

Solve: From Latin solvō (“‘loosen; solve’”).

Verb
solvere (transitive)

1. To melt or loosen
2. To resolve
3. To release

( How off-topic shall we take this thread? I'm just kidding! )

 

[Free to shine]

I think people who have been vocally out for some time forget what it was like to be terrified of reading and maybe even writing anything against scientology. It is a huge, huge leap and the last thing you need is to be jumped on at that time. I've seen it happen all too often and it makes it harder for the person, even if those first few posts do signal having taken that leap.

I am no fan of the tech in any shape or form, there are way better ideas out here, but I do remember what it was like to actually take a stand.

Perhaps keeping the upper levels out of the discussions will cause more problems at some time in the future, it will be interesting to see what happens and I am glad Geir is doing what he thinks will help. There are so many people who need help....regaining critical thinking is a long process sometimes.

Then again I can honestly say Alanzo and a few others speeded that process up for me here!

 

[Rmack]

Solve: From Latin solvō (“‘loosen; solve’”).

Verb
solvere (transitive)

1. To melt or loosen
2. To resolve
3. To release

( How off-topic shall we take this thread? I'm just kidding! )

The first definition in my Webster's says; 'to find the answer or explanation for; to clear up; explain.

I don't think the subject of how dangerous the secret stuff from the cult really is or isn't is that far off the subject. This new board we are discussing will probably be different in this way most of all.

And I'm saying that no one ever got sick from being exposed to this info, and no one has ever tried to 'solve' it either with any bad results except in the context of the cult, and then the reasons they get sick are probably not the result of this stupid story, so there is no real reason to keep it secret except for marketing purposes.



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[Rmack]

I think people who have been vocally out for some time forget what it was like to be terrified of reading and maybe even writing anything against scientology. It is a huge, huge leap and the last thing you need is to be jumped on at that time. I've seen it happen all too often and it makes it harder for the person, even if those first few posts do signal having taken that leap.

I think you can reveal the secrets without 'jumping on' anyone.

The thing that finally freed me up from the cult, the only thing to really do any good was finding out what the big secret level was. It's the 'mystery glue' that Laffy used to keep people stuck to the cult.

Perhaps keeping the upper levels out of the discussions will cause more problems at some time in the future, it will be interesting to see what happens and I am glad Geir is doing what he thinks will help. There are so many people who need help....regaining critical thinking is a long process sometimes.

I believe it will cause problems in that excluding talking about it because of the ridiculous idea that it will hurt you somehow to read about it too soon is not only bullshit, it's counter-productive in getting people out of that nasty mind-trap, IMHO, because it furthers the illusion that the OT III body thetans in everyone crap is actually true some how.



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[Alanzo]

I respect Panda Termit like my dad.

But RMack just kicked his ass.

That was awesome right there.