Veda
Sponsor
-snip-
CiC blowing off steam
-snip-
Is that what that was? Steam?
OK.
Never mind.
-snip-
CiC blowing off steam
-snip-
I don't see anyone blaming here ... but I do see someone wanting to know (as I do) why we got sucked in when so many others didn't.
Is that what that was? Steam?
OK.
Never mind.
What made us so pathetically selfish, weak, desperate and/or power hungry that we 100 were willing to not only tolerate the evil acts performed against us... and our loved ones, but also to perform evil acts against others? Whereas, in contrast, the other 9,900 people were not?
Several responses.
First, I never heard that while I was in.
Second, while I've heard of that on ESMB since I've been out, it has been far from universal.
Third, and most importantly, so what? Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's parents for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?
Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's spouse for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?
Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's child for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?
And because the authority figure told the disconnecting adult child, spouse, or parent that it was for the good of the disconctee, to bring the disconectee to their senses, the disconnecting adult child, spouse, or parent bears no responsibility?
After all, they were told that it was for the best, for the good of the disconectee.
It is not like they were the adult child told to disconnect from his parents for their own good, so they come to their senses, the adult spouse told to disconnect from his spouse for her own good, so she comes to her senses, the adult parent told to disconnect from his child, for his own good, might want to, indeed might have a responsibility to, make up their own mind as a responsible adult.
I honestly don't expect them to say or do anything. I honestly don't want them to say or do anything.
I neither expert nor want confessions or liability formulas or anything else.
Whatever amends, if any, one person thinks they owe to a specific person, or group of persons, or indeed "humanity," is up to them.
I don't think I've ever called anyone out, or criticized them, regarding what they have revealed they said or did while in the COS. If so, I apologize for that.
I just think it it is not inappropriate for me to challenge people when on ESMB they affirmatively argue, or just seem to assume, that nobody is responsible for anything they said or did while a member of Scientology because "cult," because "brainwashing." To perhaps not so gently remind them that, um, no a hell of a lot of people were exposed to the same "cult," the same "brainwashing," and didn't say or do what you did.
My rant started concerning the subject of this thread, Geir Isene, when somebody indicated (I can find the post if it is really necessary) that one really can't hold him responsible for what he said five years after he left the COS because his brain had been "altered." My initial rant was along the lines of, "Really, and when does that excuse end? Ever?"
From reading this post exploring what long term exposure to a mind control cult does to person might temper your pronouncements with some thoughtful pauses. Try reading the 4-5 star rated threads in the My Story section as well. Has it occurred to you the utter anguish and devastation those experiences from Ex's shared are there for the reading? The lies, the deceits, the dissonances, the rage and turmoils, the deep soul searching it takes to leave $cientology and the aftermath is not some easy walk in the park.
I recall when Geir posted his oatee 8 thread and as expected several people showed up J&D-ing and pointing out the fallacies of $cientology. It was another of Geir's bungles and I was cheerfully adding my 2 cents. Emma showed up on the thread pointing out something that caught me short leading me to rethink onion peeling.
Decompressing and peeling the $cio onion takes as long as takes. It varies with each person, there's no check sheet or schedule. It won't happen faster because I or anyone else wants it to. This isn't some Bridge with time table success stories meted out to everyone's satisfaction. It takes time. Because someone is out for 5 years they are expected to have it all figured out with a pretty bow on top? Really? It took me nine years decompressing from the cult before I even began questioning my cult experiences and indoctrination.
By all means point out the balderdash Geir and his like minded brethren post on the internet but have some patience. If cult recovery is now about satisfying everyone's collective expectations within an arbitrary time frame then many of you are missing the point of recovery. It's for that person to do reclaiming themselves and no magic potion or wishful thinking will speed it up. Perhaps starting a counseling fund to send people to Steve Hassan for fast track onion peeling would help however I suspect he'll say the same thing, it takes as long as it takes. Patience please.
I've never seen CIC post anything here other than facts ... for him to actually post something containing some angst (for want of a better word) is, to my way of thinking a really good sign and is perhaps his way of peeling his own "onion" and surely he has every right to.
I also think he has made some very valid points and I can't see where he has asked anything of anyone or made any pronouncements that would offend anyone except perhaps Geir who has offended almost everyone with his latest nonsense and will cope, he wants the attention and has done it deliberately IMO as part of his latest "business plan".
:confused2:
Who's offended? Not me. Yes, some valid points have been made and a good rant every once in a while is healthy. My point is have some patience that's all.
I feel it's impossible to do all the things various people demand and still post from the heart and posting from the heart is more important than being patient with someone who clearly isn't bothered what we think anyway (in this case I refer to Geir).
To hell with patience, most of us have already wasted enough time on scientology and the faster we sort things out the better, even if it's sometimes not done perfectly.
---snipped as not addressed to myself----
In any event, IMO, for the most part, ex-Scientologists do take responsibility, however they also recognize that systematic deception and manipulation exist. That seems a pretty balanced and sensible approach, don't you think?
Agreed, and I don't think there's just one reason for that. I think for some people the CofS provided something they hadn't had in their lives up until that point; an environment of (apparently) warm and caring people who shared a common purpose.
Also, some people are spiritual seekers and others aren't, and the former are more likely to join organisations which promise spiritual freedom.
Re Student of Trinity's last post ...
Yep, that's pretty much how I see it too and I know for sure that I was at a low point when they threw their net and caught me ... I was weak at that moment and the tools and attention they gave me made me think I was strong, I was also kept so very busy (on staff) that the "issues" just seemed to melt away (genuinely, they actually did disappear in a few days).
If they had found me a few weeks prior I would have just laughed and hot footed it in the opposite direction.
It was my state of mind and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I too was at a low point because I was totally broke and jobless.
They got me!
(ps: I was in high school, lol)
I too was at a low point because I was totally broke and jobless.
They got me!
(ps: I was in high school, lol)
Huh? I made no demand. Perhaps you misunderstood, I was recommending patience when it comes to people decompressing and onion peeling, you know, cult recovery. If someone such as Geir doesn't understand onion peeling, so be it, I'm not in the people fixing business. The info is there to read (or avoid) on the board available at any time.
I believe what sets people apart from Elcon's cult are very virtues Elcon intentionally omitted from $cientology and tried to inhibit in $cientologists. You practice the ones that mean the most you and I'll practice the ones that mean the most to me.
^ *(raises hand) I was a 16 year old runaway. I thought I went to a real church for help in 1977. They told me it was a church, then I was given a billion year contract and told it was "symbolic". I thought at 16 I could sign anything and not worry. Boy, was I wrong.
No Sheila, I meant kids are excluded from my test. 16 years is too young to recognize all dangers. I was 18 and very well aware that it was a cult. So I would draw a line at 18 years to be on the save side. 16 is definitely too young to make own decisions in this regard.