Geir Isene: Scientology Fair Game & forced Disconnection. So what?

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Several responses.

First, I never heard that while I was in.

Second, while I've heard of that on ESMB since I've been out, it has been far from universal.

Third, and most importantly, so what? Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's parents for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?

Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's spouse for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?

Some authority figure tells one that one must disconnect from one's child for their own good, to bring them "to their senses," and one... accepts that?

And because the authority figure told the disconnecting adult child, spouse, or parent that it was for the good of the disconctee, to bring the disconectee to their senses, the disconnecting adult child, spouse, or parent bears no responsibility?

After all, they were told that it was for the best, for the good of the disconectee.

It is not like they were the adult child told to disconnect from his parents for their own good, so they come to their senses, the adult spouse told to disconnect from his spouse for her own good, so she comes to her senses, the adult parent told to disconnect from his child, for his own good, might want to, indeed might have a responsibility to, make up their own mind as a responsible adult.

and yet this stuff happened all the time, and folks argue that "thought reform" doesn't really exist and that anyone should be able to just say no to doing insane crap.

Some days when I read this forum, I feel that those folks who dedicated their lives to showing how evil cults can be fucking wasted breath.... those of us who were human and did inhuman things do feel regret, but lately I seem to be reading that we were fucking assholes in the first place.

Sorry, those of you who espouse this don't really have a fucking clue about cults.
 
Geir wrote:

"The Church of Scientology is infamous for their Fair Game practice and their forced disconnection.
But so what? What’s the big deal?
I mean, this is nothing more than the daily routine in the US and most other countries in the world. With the immigration laws of
countries like UK, Norway and the US, families are regularly torn apart. And citizens in scores of countries are fair gamed and
worse for speaking their mind. And people go into fits about the Church of Scientology doing this on a much smaller scale and being
much nicer about it. US is regularly going apeshit to “protect their rights” or freedom. Scientology is doing the same on a
comparably microscopic scale. Put into this proportion, I can’t help wonder what all the fuss is about."


I live in the United States. I do not know of any family anywhere that has been torn apart by forced disconnection---accept Scientologists

I do understand that often there are illegal immigrants who are snatched away by authorities leaving other family members behind.
But the difference is that this is done in the name of enforcing the law.

Like it or not, it has some legitimate authority behind it---a legitimate authority accepted as legitimate through the social and political process; this is not so in Scientology.

As awful as this is on a human level, Americans who object are free to openly disagree with this policy without the fear that they themselves may be snatched away from loved ones because they openly disagreed..

Also, in the United States and in other countries there is always a give and take in society between people and the legitimate authorities; this is not so in Scientology.

I cannot do much about the laws and legitimacy of the governments of Europe. But people there can.

In America, I can voice my concerns, petition the government, assemble with others to protest government policies and actions, and am free to make any legal (that is legitimate, too) action or activities to the extent that I wish; this is not so in Scientology.

It isn't the scale of activity, it is the fact that in Scientology there is no right of appeal. There is no justice, real justice, procedure.

There is a difference between the parliament of Norway and Stalin.

There is a difference between a democratic republic and Mao.

There is a difference between an elected representative and Hitler.

And it isn't just the moustaches and boots.

There is no justice in Scientology.

There is no love in Scientology.

The world isn't perfect. But in most places there is some recourse for the country's citizens.

This is not so in Scientology.

And one more thing, Geir---it is our friends and family and ourselves that are being affected.

The presupposition of your article is that human beings are not worth caring about on an individual level.

Mustache and boots.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

Geir wrote:

"The Church of Scientology is infamous for their Fair Game practice and their forced disconnection.

But so what? What’s the big deal?

I mean, this is nothing more than the daily routine in the US and most other countries in the world. With the immigration laws of countries like UK, Norway and the US, families are regularly torn apart. And citizens in scores of countries are fair gamed and worse for speaking their mind. And people go into fits about the Church of Scientology doing this on a much smaller scale and being much nicer about it. US is regularly going apeshit to “protect their rights” or freedom. Scientology is doing the same on a comparably microscopic scale. Put into this proportion, I can’t help wonder what all the fuss is about."



I live in the United States. I do not know of any family anywhere that has been torn apart by forced disconnection---accept Scientologists

I do understand that often there are illegal immigrants who are snatched away by authorities leaving other family members behind.
But the difference is that this is done in the name of enforcing the law.

Like it or not, it has some legitimate authority behind it---a legitimate authority accepted as legitimate through the social and political process; this is not so in Scientology.

As awful as this is on a human level, Americans who object are free to openly disagree with this policy without the fear that they themselves may be snatched away from loved ones because they openly disagreed..

Also, in the United States and in other countries there is always a give and take in society between people and the legitimate authorities; this is not so in Scientology.

I cannot do much about the laws and legitimacy of the governments of Europe. But people there can.

In America, I can voice my concerns, petition the government, assemble with others to protest government policies and actions, and am free to make any legal (that is legitimate, too) action or activities to the extent that I wish; this is not so in Scientology.

It isn't the scale of activity, it is the fact that in Scientology there is no right of appeal. There is no justice, real justice, procedure.

There is a difference between the parliament of Norway and Stalin.

There is a difference between a democratic republic and Mao.

There is a difference between an elected representative and Hitler.

And it isn't just the moustaches and boots.

There is no justice in Scientology.

There is no love in Scientology.

The world isn't perfect. But in most places there is some recourse for the country's citizens.

This is not so in Scientology.

And one more thing, Geir---it is our friends and family and ourselves that are being affected.

The presupposition of your article is that human beings are not worth caring about on an individual level.

Mustache and boots.

The Anabaptist Jacques


Thanks TAJ.

If Geir's daughters were kidnapped by terrorists, he would simply say "But so what? What’s the big deal?" Geir would evidence such "insouciance" and "spirit of play" because elsewhere in the world, terrorists just kidnapped over 300 Nigerian girls.

If Geir didn't blithely say that, his philosophy is a hypocritical fraud.

But if he did say that, he wouldn't be a hypocritical fraud. He'd be much worse.
 
Thanks TAJ.

If Geir's daughters were kidnapped by terrorists, he would simply say "But so what? What’s the big deal?" Geir would evidence such "insouciance" and "spirit of play" because elsewhere in the world, terrorists just kidnapped over 300 Nigerian girls.

If Geir wouldn't blithely say that, his philosophy is a hypocritical fraud.

But if he did say that, he's not a hypocritical fraud. He's much worse.

It just seemed to me that he showed a complete lack of comprehension of the value of one human being to another.

Sadly, I've seen this lack of compassion expressed by the words and actions of way too many OTs.

It seems, if Geir is a true representative, that when a person still considers some value to the OT levels, or that the OT levels were worth doing, that they are still in some way a Nietzschean Superman who do not have any of the slave morality ideas such as love and compassion.

Just when I think it is safe to ignore the effects of Scientology people like Geir show up and remind me of its insidiousness.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
and yet this stuff happened all the time, and folks argue that "thought reform" doesn't really exist and that anyone should be able to just say no to doing insane crap.

Some days when I read this forum, I feel that those folks who dedicated their lives to showing how evil cults can be fucking wasted breath.... those of us who were human and did inhuman things do feel regret, but lately I seem to be reading that we were fucking assholes in the first place.

Sorry, those of you who espouse this don't really have a fucking clue about cults.

I agree fully, Clammy. Part of the reason ESMB is here is to connect, analyze and deconstruct Elcon's mind fuck cult. That's why I made a comment about patience. It wasn't aimed at or about Geir but at those that don't understand the hard work it takes for those Ex's willing and actively working through their traumatic cult experience.
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Thanks TAJ.

If Geir's daughters were kidnapped by terrorists, he would simply say "But so what? What’s the big deal?" Geir would evidence such "insouciance" and "spirit of play" because elsewhere in the world, terrorists just kidnapped over 300 Nigerian girls.

If Geir didn't blithely say that, his philosophy is a hypocritical fraud.

But if he did say that, he wouldn't be a hypocritical fraud. He'd be much worse.

:clap:
 
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