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General Review of Tech

multixperience

Patron with Honors
Hello. Just an introduction>
I ve been in Sea Org for 3 years as the Personnel Control Officer in HCO in Copenhagen AOSHEU.

I finiched all the Grade Quads and released on some points.

The stuff>

So I left the SO about 5 years ago and have been completely out of the Scn view and so on, not using it etc...

Now its about a month I took a decision to review the Scn Tech and get the right one out of it.

Reviewing it for about a month I took another deduction from gathering data, that the Tech .... and i mean the real standard tech ... to get out of the trap is really stil hidden somewhere along the line of its development ...

Numerous changes of the Bridge, the chart of awareness, or whatever we could call it, full of "reviews" on policies, Tech Bulletins and so on is really making an apparent mess out of it.

I guess its called "an introduction of arbitrary into a problem" and not just its not only one arbitrary, but about as much, as many beings were near the source of it enough to have an eligibility to change it.

(Sorry for my grammar but i am from Slovakia)

And the fact that really bothers me, is that LRH was getting through this chart of awareness too thus changing his own awareness all the time through.

I give you an example of the certain data i know>

The chart has been changed a lot.

In the chart are introduced arbitraries such as repair of quickie grades on some PCs or Pre OTs that LRH ordered that were actually after the Golden Age Of Tech kept on the chart as the standard steps.

I thought that the GAoT was supposed to get the quickie grades out, so why were the repair steps kept?
Well , obvious reason would be the income. Getting out the repair steps for quickie grades would lessen the income, in terms of intensives.

Actually on the Bridge there are steps, that when thoroughly done, would the later steps of the gradation chart leave out. They were made for "Quickies"

LRH made some undercuts to speed the progres on the Bridge, while these were not put on the Bridge, just were assigned the "Rundown" name. Actually they would boost the PC up the Bridge.

And there is more to it, just not enough space in this thread.

I decided to take a review. I already collected all the Bulletins and so on...

If you have an additional data on this subject, let me know, I offer the service of inspecting them and putting back together.

We can consult this...

ML,

Ivan
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Perhaps you haven't heard - the genesis of the tech has turned out to be a lie, and the basic premise, i.e., Engrams, were debunked in the early 1950s. Do you really think its worth the effort trying to salvage anything?
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors
To tell you the truth i dont think there needs to be a lot of effort. after leaving SO i was really messed up in confusion of data.

The only thing that got me out of it was the same tech but i started to apply logics and axioms for my own usage as a being, not for the usage of the CoS.

There are the viewpoints stuff.

Long time i tried to look through the CoS viewpoint. "member of the group" and so on.

But there is the tech to really higher your awareness. I got a tiny bit of mess of this tech and it did increase my awarenes.

This helped me a lot / knowingly or unknowingly throughout the past 5 years.

There is no effort in restoring or structurising a body of knowledge till you look at it as a solver, not as a member of that group, which supposed to use it.

I dont want to force you guys any view. I am merely giving an opportunity saying what think of. Dont start to search for mechanics and circuits. Just communicate data you think should be reviewed and when i will make it, i give you the opportunity to look at it and will make it wild known on net.

There is nothing else behind it...
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors
Sorry. there is something more to it. the structuralization of data for other ex scientologists to look at. Wheter Freezoners, exscientologists, scientologists, they wouldnt occupy their viewpoints, if they would search for truth and the answers.

I would like to see your considerations of how you see this body of knowledge, what do you think was left out, what do think of the "bridge" is missing and if you as an OT look at this thing, do you consider there would be a better way to get people out of the mud?
Are you aware of what should be really done on the bridge so PC goes stably clear and OT?
What do you consider in terms of PC getting up the Bridge are missed steps and what are really beneficial?
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry. there is something more to it. the structuralization of data for other ex scientologists to look at. Wheter Freezoners, exscientologists, scientologists, they wouldnt occupy their viewpoints, if they would search for truth and the answers.

I would like to see your considerations of how you see this body of knowledge, what do you think was left out, what do think of the "bridge" is missing and if you as an OT look at this thing, do you consider there would be a better way to get people out of the mud?
Are you aware of what should be really done on the bridge so PC goes stably clear and OT?
What do you consider in terms of PC getting up the Bridge are missed steps and what are really beneficial?

Yes a calm, stable environment(non IAS, non IDEAL ORG, Non-event events) with people around who care and dont enforce solid rules or inhibit your bank account or freedom of speech.
whats real to you is all that matters.
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
Soderqvist1: regarding the “Genesis theory”!
L. Ron Hubbard has mentioned Alfred Korzybski in his book the Modern Science of Mental Health, and Senator S. I. Hayakawa is one of his followers who have reviewed the said book in 1951.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/hayakawa.htm

Dianetic Therapy: An Experimental Evaluation Harvey Jay Fischer 1953
http://www.clambake.org/archive/fischer/

The Hubbard Is Bare copyright 1992 by Jeff Jacobsen
http://www.clambake.org/archive/lrhbare/

Soderqvist1: if not anything of the above will do, then read Senior S/C International David Mayo essay Clear.
http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors
Yes a calm, stable environment(non IAS, non IDEAL ORG, Non-event events) with people around who care and dont enforce solid rules or inhibit your bank account or freedom of speech.
whats real to you is all that matters.

Thank you for this. This should be really the first of the things that should be amongst the stable data.

I even think its not only for a specific theme. Boy if such a environment and people were all around one would get the Hell out of his case. Thats true.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
There was a booklet, what every preclear should know.Ruth Minshull?

I havent seen it but have heard it has basic information you need to be aware of .

Like dont Self Audit, Problems, upsets(ARC breaks), Ptsness.
and comm with people who are trained, so no make wrong, duress, acknowledge, no inval , eval. Grade zero communicate about anything.
Get those out of the way and you can learn in peace anything.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
No OTs

Are you aware of what should be really done on the bridge so PC goes stably clear and OT?

I have yet to meet a genuine clear. I have yet to meet a person with OT abilities. I don't believe the Tech can produce such a person. (I don't believe it ever did, even under LRH's direct tutelage.) In fact, I'll go further and say that I don't think the goal of producing an übermensch of that kind could ever be a good thing.

You're out. You survived the Con of Ron, and got away with your life. Not everybody did. I hope you will find something more wholesome to study; something worthy of your interest.
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors

Thank you. This is a review of high value. No thoughts, no emotions, just plain data. Really helping.

BTW, the engram as an engram was never proved scientifically. Thats true. But if an electronic circuit board that measures resistance in body can be called as a scientific device, well, it does measure "charge" and certainly it is there. The other question would be, if the resistance that it measures is the mocked/up charge. Another scientific prove would be a release of charge, also measured by the so called electropsycho meter and the obvious emotion of the PC after the erasure of whatever he was looking at, when the meter got a resistance (read).
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors
There was a booklet, what every preclear should know.Ruth Minshull?

I havent seen it but have heard it has basic information you need to be aware of .

Like dont Self Audit, Problems, upsets(ARC breaks), Ptsness.
and comm with people who are trained, so no make wrong, duress, acknowledge, no inval , eval. Grade zero communicate about anything.
Get those out of the way and you can learn in peace anything.

True for this. I am not a class 12 trained and cannot say that i know the tech, or studied everything, as dont believe Ruth Minshull did either.

I dont even believe that LRH did know everything.

Self Audit is not dangerous, of course its a data for a book in its own.
First: What is self audit, and how did Ruth understand the subject of Self Auditing.
i.e. Self Auditing as telling your self a question and than answering it is certainly not the right way. For a communication there need to be two viewpoints for an exchange of energy to happen.
Second: Self Auditing as looking at things as they are is possible only until you can differentiate your own considerations, thoughts, emotions from mechanics of circuits going on (what would be the uncontrolled thoughts going on you hear and so on).
i.e. Based on this on actually does self audit all the time when in study i.e. the scientology. (dont tell me, that when you read a material, you were able to grasp it without trying its application in your considerations, and that would be start the cycle, change it, stop it.)
BTW this is the Solo as i know... not completely, but it certainly is its basic technique.
There is only that thing for this (ability to see the real similarities and differences in ones own considerations and thought).
Third: PTPs, upstets, ptsness are all part of this ability.
i.e. one could theoretically easily differentiate a time. Just realizing his own position in pt, look at the pt, one could right away get out from ptsness, ptp, arcbreaks, assigning these to a past and differentiate them from pt.
Its the basic rule saying: thetan to solve a problem must become the thetan solver, rather than the thetan problem. its a matter of viewpoints...
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
E-meters measure something, all right. Skin resistance. And skin resistance does correlate with thoughts and feelings, because your muscles tense or relax, and your sweat glands release moisture, in unconscious reaction to thoughts and feelings.

So up to a point an e-meter could possibly be a genuinely useful tool in therapy. It really can say something about thoughts and feelings. But that does nothing at all towards proving Hubbard's engram theory. The engram theory isn't just that thoughts and feelings have some physical effect or other. Duh: we knew that. I'm typing because my thoughts are having a physical effect on my fingers.

So Hubbard doesn't deserve any credit for the fact that an e-meter needle swings when you get pinched, and again when you remember the pinch. If you know anything much about electricity, biology, and psychology, then you already know that the needle will do that. So that pinch test schtick is just a clever bit of BS to suck people in, because it looks really flashy to anyone who doesn't know much about electricity, biology, or psychology. But it really doesn't do anything at all to support Scientology.

Hubbard's engram theory is a particular simple notion that certain traumatic memories behave in a certain simple way. The only attempts I know of at testing this theory have found it to be clearly false.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
BTW, could you give me a url for this theory, for this genesis theory?

Hubbard said he developed Dianetics after curing his war injuries - thing is, there never were any injuries: check out this article here http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright

. . . and you can see the original documents here: http://www.spaink.net/cos/LRH-bio/lrhpaper.htm

As you can see, Scientology is just one lie after another after another. As soon as you've got rid of all your own engrams, you've got to start working on the engrams of the body thetans . . . it never ends.

tumblr_ld50v7q6tn1qabw68o1_400.gif
 

multixperience

Patron with Honors
E-meters measure something, all right. Skin resistance. And skin resistance does correlate with thoughts and feelings, because your muscles tense or relax, and your sweat glands release moisture, in unconscious reaction to thoughts and feelings.

So up to a point an e-meter could possibly be a genuinely useful tool in therapy. It really can say something about thoughts and feelings. But that does nothing at all towards proving Hubbard's engram theory. The engram theory isn't just that thoughts and feelings have some physical effect or other. Duh: we knew that. I'm typing because my thoughts are having a physical effect on my fingers.

So Hubbard doesn't deserve any credit for the fact that an e-meter needle swings when you get pinched, and again when you remember the pinch. If you know anything much about electricity, biology, and psychology, then you already know that the needle will do that. So that pinch test schtick is just a clever bit of BS to suck people in, because it looks really flashy to anyone who doesn't know much about electricity, biology, or psychology. But it really doesn't do anything at all to support Scientology.

Hubbard's engram theory is a particular simple notion that certain traumatic memories behave in a certain simple way. The only attempts I know of at testing this theory have found it to be clearly false.

Thanks.

What is true for you is true and i appreciate it untill you are certain of these facts.

I agree with you. Engrams and reactive mind as such were not proven. all these were only a "naming of what LRH saw or considered" and were named for a reason that he explained. I heard once the reason was the introductory of new terminology just no to "confuse" it with other practices.
I would rather say: "Introductory of new terminology not to "compare it and evaluate the importances" with other practices.

If he would say at the beginning of Dianetics making to be wild known to public as a compilation of data and the summarization of principles to improve the state of being, public wouldnt take it as a new knowledge and wouldnt pay that money for the group so it could survive from those.

I dont see anything wrong with making money from an activity of dissemination the knowledge. But do it in an acceptable manner.

The fact of terminology is not comparable to the fact of people getting better with higher awareness.

I can not insist of you believing something, i found out on myself that one really can get higher with awareness. And the fact that one is not in such shape or condition that one would like to be in, doesnt eleminate the fact that there are things, that when one looks at, make wanish and the person feels better.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard said he developed Dianetics after curing his war injuries - thing is, there never were any injuries: check out this article here http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright

. . . and you can see the original documents here: http://www.spaink.net/cos/LRH-bio/lrhpaper.htm

As you can see, Scientology is just one lie after another after another. As soon as you've got rid of all your own engrams, you've got to start working on the engrams of the body thetans . . . it never ends.

That Homer Simpson is the best auditing ive had.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
The fact of terminology is not comparable to the fact of people getting better with higher awareness.

But Hubbard never got better. He went insane. I keep repeating this but, really, Emma said it best:

. . . <snip> . . . What the hell is there to gain from hiding the truth from anyone?

Hubbard created Scientology.

Hubbard created the Sea Org.

Hubbard wrote the policies that allowed this organisation to become what it is.

Hubbard was a liar, a thief, a bigamist, and a criminal who spent his final days on the run from the law, hiding in a caravan with sentries posted on the ranch borders on the lookout for BTs. He died a paranoid lunatic.

WHO SAYS THAT THIS SHOULD BE HIDDEN FROM ANYONE?

WHO?????? . . . <snip> . . .

Hehehehe - "sentries posted on the ranch borders on the look out for body thetans" - cracks me up every time.
 
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