Genesis of a critic

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, I was a silent lurker back in the old ARS days and I've seen you "spout all this $cilon-drivel", which secured you a warm cozy place in my killfile pretty soon. But from other people quoting you, I could later see that you had something interesting to say sometimes, and you had an interesting style. So I let you out of your cage and read your posts occasionally.

Just let me say that it was/is interesting to watch your "evolution" over the years. :)

Hi, Mr. Nobody,

Yes, being in CofS as I was at the time, my point of view was definitely one of the Scn'ist true believer. And what better place to discuss Scn than an ng called alt.religion.scientology? I've never liked fora to be solely populated by those with one opinion on a given issue. That's why, after I went Free Zone (back when I was into that) I tended to avoid FZ lists. No point/counterpoint. So I think it's healthy for ngs and mbs to have a mix of views and, as I said, had I not wandered in to a.r.s. and said the things I said, I'd not have learned about what was really going on and subsequently left the cult and started protesting.

I'm glad you sent me the Pepsi and potato chips and dip when I was in the killfile :coolwink: , though it was nice to get out occasionally and stretch my legs. :thumbsup:

The main thing about me an' ars back in 1998 to 2000- (although, of course, I posted a few years after that and occasionally pop in even nowadays) was that I just really enjoyed talking to the people there. There were so many awesome smart wonderful people to talk to. What a relief to find out that the cult was lying about their alleged SPness.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Yo, Hats- which horse and shining armor? If we're talking about being rescued, yeah, I do think this has all been a rescue for me and I'm so grateful.

La La Lou Lou- agreed, totally. It really is about the people.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Fluffy,
Actually, you were my knight in shining armor a couple of times :p and came to my rescue. I'd seen you quick to spot the posts where you thought undeserved criticism had gone overboard between members. That's what I was thinking when I was looking for a pic of a crusading knight quick to the challenge.:happydance: This was in response to your explaining (or apologizing for) your outspokeness to board members in the past on this thread. You were kinda the hero I liked to watch....like Mighty Mouse or the Lone Ranger.
knightv.gif
image_castle008.jpg
 
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Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hatsy and Fluffy - I learned good things from both of you so far. Thank you. Just wanted to let you know. Warm wishes, Stat.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I've always liked to see more than one side of things. I'm certainly not perfect but I'm not the person a few people have portrayed, either. When I was a forum regular on OCMB (Instead of an occasional contributor as I am now) there were people who thought I had a rough time with anyone not liking Scn outside CofS. I must have told them at least a dozen- probably two or three dozen times- that I had no problem with that. I did have a problem with anyone being slammed for being interested in Scn outside CofS, though. But I never ever cared if someone else didn't want to do Scn or wanted to criticize it, though I certainly reserved the right to post disagreements with various arguments I thought were not correct.

When I first got on a.r.s., I was very polite to the people there though I thought they were fucked up, then later, ok, just mistaken. I used to get email apologies- even a couple calls- from some of them. Quite a few of them would start with "Well, at least you're polite". Yet, the fairytale that I came on that forum starting right out by screaming at people- has persisted in a couple quarters. But, really, the flame wars came later and they pertained to my annoyance at people posting ad homs. Well, the posts speak for themselves. Most are googleable though google groups (for usenet) has fucked up their search engines almost beyond all recognition.

These experiences sensitized me to what others are going through when they pop in here. I've seen people who had ZERO interest in Scn in any way, shape or form, sometimes referred to as being OSA or something like that. And, of course, I've seen Indies and Free Zoners and a few other sorts of contributors occasionally receive the same sort of treatment.

But you'll notice I said "occasionally" and "have seen...". That's because this forum is relatively mild. So there may have been some of those sorts of things here, but they tend to happen more elsewhere. It didn't go the draconian not-allowing-hardly-any-free-speech-and-ultimately-dying-on-the-vine-because-of-that route that Beliefnet's Scn debate forum incurred. The moderation here is...well, moderate. :coolwink: Plus, I think every forum has a chemistry. A combination of people that makes that one unique. I don't think it's JUST the subject matter that determines the feel of the thing. So we have an extremely nice bunch of people here. There are very few people who even WANT to or are ever tempted to slam the shit out of people of whom they disapprove. The majority of people here are sweet and fun loving. I mean, even when I was still referring to myself as an indie Scn'ist, most people were friendly to me, which I thought was really neat, because then we could get to know each other as people. The human connection is incredibly valuable. It's something the cult seems to try to suppress at every turn and it's one of the major reasons, IMO, that people hate them so much.
 
Foti: One thing it took me a while to "acclimate" to was not feeling a need to apologize for being "human". Second thing was reprogramming my "gps" default settings to find my way back to "me". You're doing just fine, imo. If it helps, here's what I learned:

“Paths of Least Resistance”

My greatest joys and most profound revelations occurred each time I took a blind-faith plunge off whatever “path” I was traveling in the moment. I’ve learned my own intuition has proven to be the best, most accurate “internal GPS” and to trust it implicitly.

I no longer regret my experiences in Scientology, although I should comment I never bankrupted my spiritual or wallet investments. I finally faced the fact that Scientology was one of those plunges. Years later I finally could see that in fact it taught me many lessons, although far from what was intended and promoted in the slick, packaged “EP”.

A Path of Least Resistance may get you where you want to go, but rarely leads to where you need to be. If you already know where you need to be, there’s no need to travel. You’re there.
 

shadow

Patron with Honors
I have seen several people take the journey you took, they just did not do it publicly, on the internet.:D

Although I would skip past your "Fluff" posts, it actually turned out pretty helpful to read your posts and get a better idea about the form this journey (or evolution :coolwink:) can take for some.
 
I have seen several people take the journey you took, they just did not do it publicly, on the internet.:D

Although I would skip past your "Fluff" posts, it actually turned out pretty helpful to read your posts and get a better idea about the form this journey (or evolution :coolwink:) can take for some.

You're kidding, right? Many have taken this journey. These are the brave and courageous ones, and the antithesis of "fluff". Intentional or not, your post comes off as judgmental a bit and I have hopes you might reconsider what you have written, only because that would be kind and compassionate.

Those that post their journeys are doing so partly for their own therapeutic help, but do so online to help others struggling with the same and can identify with all the different emotions and problems of each stepping stone.

Irrevelant criticisms of those in the process can be very harmful and counter productive. The majority who do so generally don't mean harm; they are in the main simply uninformed.

Understand you can't "get to" the other side of a road without starting somewhere. "Somewhere" is 90% of that journey.

If you only want to read the last page of a book, that's your choice. But don't diss the author for telling the whole story.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, the thing about the "Fluff posts" is that they span several years and that there's a very large percentage of them that contain criticism of CofS and of Scn. Even when I was an indie Scn'ist, I criticized not just the cult, but also Hubbard, at times. I encouraged people to leave the cult, to follow their dreams and to look at ANY other ology that interested them. I wrote about disconnection, my time on staff, the insane regging and recruiting practices of the cult and all sorts of things.

So there really isn't any one category for the fluff/fluffy posts.

I'm happy for anyone who takes the journey or any other personal journey- publicly or privately. And I'm truly delighted to correct any...ummmm...erroneous impressions.
 

shadow

Patron with Honors
You're kidding, right? Many have taken this journey. These are the brave and courageous ones, and the antithesis of "fluff". Intentional or not, your post comes off as judgmental a bit and I have hopes you might reconsider what you have written, only because that would be kind and compassionate.

Those that post their journeys are doing so partly for their own therapeutic help, but do so online to help others struggling with the same and can identify with all the different emotions and problems of each stepping stone.

Irrevelant criticisms of those in the process can be very harmful and counter productive. The majority who do so generally don't mean harm; they are in the main simply uninformed.

Understand you can't "get to" the other side of a road without starting somewhere. "Somewhere" is 90% of that journey.

If you only want to read the last page of a book, that's your choice. But don't diss the author for telling the whole story.

The intent of my post was not to criticize or convey any negative intent.:confused2: I was actually quite intrigued with the journey from the earlier Ball of Fluff comments on OCMB (I try to avoid ARS) to the current Voltaire's Child posts on ESMB which I would not have seen had it not been public.

Fluff was in major post mode on OCMB when I was trying to find info to better understand what I perceived as negative issues between some family members and scn. There were things that family just didn't discuss, and I didn't get why they would put up with the control and interference from scn, and so much more. During this time, there were many Ball of Fluff (or "Fluff") posts that I could not really get into, and I spent little time on them, as they seemed a road to self exploration that I was not, nor could be a part of (I think VC knows what I mean by this). With time, it became apparent that there a Fluff to VC evolution was occurring and I followed the evolution more closely. It was very informative, and helped me understand the similar private evolution happening to some very dear family members, while others remained enmeshed in the control.

It is easy to misunderstand intent in a short post but hard to walk thru a wall of text...somewhere there is a mid-ground but it can be elusive.
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Fair enough, Shadow. Makes sense to me. This is actually something I've discussed with some folks- which is that not everyone's posts are going to be everyone's cup of tea. And it's fine. I mean, there were always some posts or contributors whose stuff I was more interested in reading than other ones, though I tried to sample everyone's at least some of the time. Seems to me that's all you were doing and, as I said, makes total sense to me.:)
 

shadow

Patron with Honors
Yep...Sampling, that would be a good description for the early posts...Keeping tabs without any investment.

I wanted you to know that I found reading your posts and watching your evolution on-line was valuable for helping me understand a similar evolution in some family members. :)

I have watched many good changes towards personal freedom, on- and off line, and it has been a wonder to see.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Coolness, Shadow.

The posts that used to really have (still do, really) a profound impact on me back when I was in CofS but was posting on ars- were the ones people posted about their experiences. Some of those accounts are absolutely amazing and appalling. It's VERY educational!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Hah! You DO remember. I thought so. I just hope FinallyFree doesn't post those photographs on Facebook like she said she might do.

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I won't say I've never met an SP, but I would say that out of all the people I've ever met, I only thought that 2 or 3 might fit the bill. This certainly isn't in line with Hubbard's percentages given, even if you take the kinder 20% of 2.5% interpretation.

I assume he got that 2.5% figure out of a book or encyclopedia, not from his own "research."

For example, the current figure from Wikipedia's article on Anti-Social Personality Disorder (this isn't a Scientology article!) matches it well.

Excerpted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder:
Antisocial personality disorder in the general population is about 3% in males and 1% in females.

Paul
 
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