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Georges Fenech interviewed about Scientology, Sept. 12, 2014

mnql1

Patron Meritorious
Here, with English subtitles, is the video of a September 12, 2014 radio interview with Georges Fenech, who is currently a member of France's parliament, the National Assembly. Georges Fenech was president of France's cult-monitoring agency, MIVILUDES, from 2008 to 2012, and he was the investigating judge in the case concerning the 1988 suicide of Scientologist Patrice Vic.

The first half of the interview is mainly about the investigation into Scientology's infiltration of the Arcadia building company. In the second half, a caller discusses the suicide of Scientologist Rémy Petit, and a second caller asks whether enough is being done against cults in France. Georges Fenech concludes by noting that the attention of public authorities seems to have lapsed, and he urges more vigilance.

[video=youtube;lOGPoSVg5VA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGPoSVg5VA[/video]

Photo3.jpg
Senator Nick Xenophon and Georges Fenech, November 2011

Transcript

Program: "Le grand direct de l'actu"
Host: Jean-Marc Morandini (JMM)
Guest: Georges Fenech (GF)
Date:September 12, 2014

JMM: In France, Scientology has been convicted many times for abuse of weakness. Now it faces a court case regarding psychological harassment, a lawsuit filed by the employees of a construction firm in the Yvelines department. Scientology claims it has 45,000 members in France. Scientology once again stands accused of wrongdoing. To give us a sense of where things are, our guest is Georges Fenech, UMP member of the National Assembly for the Rhône area, former president of the Interministerial Mission of Vigilance and Combat against Sectarian Abuses (MIVILUDES). Georges Fenech, good morning.
GF: Good morning.
JMM: Thank you for being with us. There's an impression today that we're unable to deal with Scientology decisively. Is that the case?
GF: Yes, indeed, it's ...
JMM: The court cases keep coming ...
GF: It's true.
JMM: Then nothing happens.
GF: True. The first trial in France was in 1978. In fact, it was L. Ron Hubbard's trial.
JMM: The creator of Scientology.
GF: Who was the founder. And then there was a whole series of trials, one of which I know very well, because I was the investigating judge in that case in Lyon, regarding the involuntary homicide of a young member. And then, there was —
JMM: That was the Vic case.
GF: The Vic case.
JMM: Exactly, a young man in Lyon who committed suicide..
GF: Absolutely. A young husband and father who threw himself out of a window. And then there was the Paris case that ended in 2009 with a severe conviction for organized fraud that applied to the Church of Scientology as a legal entity. This was the first time that the entity itself was convicted and heavily fined. The 2001 About-Picard Law concerning mental manipulation contains a provision which says that, after the second conviction of a legal entity, the court may order its dissolution.
JMM: So if the Church of Scientology, as a legal entity, is convicted in the current case —
GF: Yes.
JMM: The Church of Scientology in France could be dissolved.
GF: It could indeed face dissolution because this case concerns not just individuals but also the Church of Scientology as a legal entity. The investigation has just begun. It's in progress. It has been assigned to a specialized service that, I can say, is the only one of its kind in the world. We have a specialized police unit called CAIMADES, the assistance unit for all matters concerning cult-related abuses. The investigators of the CAIMADES police are presently looking into abuse of weakness and psychological harassment. Without, of course, prejudging the case, there may be a trial based on these charges.
JMM: Is the Church of Scientology a cult?
GF: The traditional answer: there's no legal definition for a cult, and neither is there one for a religion.
JMM: So it's a structure with a cultic nature?
GF: It's a structure in which cultic abuses are clearly endemic. I'm not the only one saying this. The courts have said it in many instances.
JMM: Then why, after so many years, is the Church of Scientology still there?
GF: Well —
JMM: It's hard to understand for an outside observer.
GF: Yes.
JMM: We keep hearing "Look out! The Church of Scientology is dangerous!" But they're still there!
GF: Yes. What can I say?
JMM: But why?
GF: For the past 20 years, I've been sounding alarm bells about this organization, which has caused a great deal of damage. And I'm obliged to weigh my words, otherwise there could be lawsuits. It's a very, very litigious organization with considerable financial resources. But it's been losing a bit of ground in France. They claim 45,000 members, but our estimates put the number at about 3,000. But they're very powerful and —
JMM: They're powerful throughout the world, especially in the United States.
JMM: Scientology has entire buildings.
GF: Sure, it's an organization —
JMM: It also has some American celebrities.
GF: Yes, and this current investigation is quite exceptional. It's about the Church of Scientology taking control of a company, a very successful company with a hundred employees —
JMM: A building company.
GF: With sales of 10 million euros. It infiltrated the company. First, it ensnared the company's president, who joined Scientology after the brutal death of his daughter. That's often how it is. When misfortune strikes, a person becomes easy prey.
JMM: More vulnerable, of course.
GF: He became a total believer and he then obliged his managers and employees to take Scientology courses and training —
JMM: It appears that's what happened in this company.
GF: And Scientologists actually came into the company itself to take over human resources, accounting, treasury, etc. and the company fell completely into the world of Scientology. In the past year and a half or so, about 30 employees left the company under terrible conditions of stress, with medical certificates. They had to do all sorts of sessions where 2 people stare at each other for 2 hours without speaking and then take turns insulting each other. These are the well-known procedures that the Church of Scientology uses to manipulate and break a person.
JMM: And it's important to clarify that the case you're describing is in France, in the Yvelines.
GF: It was a very fine company, but today, obviously, it's in very deep trouble. Even the son of the company's president is a plaintiff against his own father and against the Church of Scientology. It's a disaster. This company has been devastated.
JMM: We have a caller. Good morning, Laurence.
Laurence: Good morning.
JMM: You're particularly sensitive to developments concerning the Church of Scientology.
Laurence: Yes, because about 20 years ago, a cousin of mine committed suicide, but it would be more accurate to say that he was forced to commit suicide, because Scientology took control over him. He was 22 years old. This was in Nice. I'm in the Maritime Alps region. He was in Nice, and he was walking along the Rue de France. They gave him a flier and he went in for a test ...
JMM: A personality test.
Laurence: Right, a personality test. He got caught up in it, and they gave him a bit of authority. He emptied all his accounts, and one day he wanted to leave, but that was impossible. He was found with a suicide note, but because of the way he committed suicide, it was impossible for him to have done it alone.
JMM: Was there a trial in this case?
Laurence: The problem is, we wanted to file a complaint with my aunt. 20 years ago, my children were young, and I was asked: "Do you have children?" I said: "Yes." And he said: "Don't go to court. They might go after your children." If you google my cousin's name, he's a person who tried to leave but wasn't able to. His name was Rémy Petit, and he's always mentioned in the stories about people who died because of Scientology.
JMM: Georges Fenech, how to respond?
GF: Yes ...
JMM: Today, are they still using a personality test to recruit people?
GF: Yes, this is Scientology's usual recruitment method. You're accosted on the street as you exit a subway station. You let your guard down. A personality test, 200 questions. You get the results. You're in very bad shape, in serious danger. Come on over. For a small sum, you'll find the kind of care that you need and —
Laurence: Pardon me for interrupting, but Scientology's hold is especially strong, because you're free to come and go. You're not locked up. You continue working and living —
GF: Hmm ...
Laurence: It's true that they isolate you from the people you know —
GF: Not always. Not always, Laurence. Not always. We could talk at length about all those who've been held against their will for years on the Freewinds ship —
Laurence: My husband at the time went to the airport to prevent him from leaving. because he was told he was going for training in the United States. We went over to prevent him from leaving.
GF: But others go to Flag in Clearwater and it's years and years before they're seen again or they disappear completely.
JMM: Thank you, Laurence, for your perspective. Good morning, Christophe.
Christophe: Good morning, Jean-Marc. Good morning, Mr. Fenech.
GF: Good morning.
JMM: Go ahead, Christophe.
Christophe: I have a very simple question. Are we doing enough against cults in France? My impression is that there used to be a lot of talk about this. Now this morning's news raises the subject. But I have the impression that, for some time, not enough is being done to fight against cults. Perhaps it's just an impression, but I feel concerned about this.
JMM: Georges Fenech.
GF: Listen, I'll tell you quite frankly ...
JMM: Yes.
GF: I have the impression that we are indeed presently going through a sort of standstill. I'm a bit worried. I'm a bit worried, and I believe there's been a lowering of vigilance. As chairman of the study group on cults at the National Assembly, I've decided, because many people have been bringing this to my attention, to alert public authorities. It's imperative that all public authorities that cooperate with MIVILUDES find a new impetus, because we must not relax our vigilance. We must not lower our guard. My impression is ... and this gentleman, Christophe, is saying what I'm often hearing and what I myself perceive. It seems that no one's talking about this any more, that nothing's happening any more. In reality, there is terrible suffering, in particular children who don't go to school and live in groups that are almost completely closed, unseen, and who suffer irreparable harm. So I take advantage of this microphone to urge public authorities and MIVILUDES to renew the fight. This is a true fight for liberty.
JMM: Thank you, Georges Fenech, for joining us live and for making this appeal this morning on Europe 1. He is the UMP member of the National Assembly for the Rhône area.
 

Leland

Crusader
Here, with English subtitles, is the video of a September 12, 2014 radio interview with Georges Fenech, who is currently a member of France's parliament, the National Assembly. Georges Fenech was president of France's cult-monitoring agency, MIVILUDES, from 2008 to 2012, and he was the investigating judge in the case concerning the 1988 suicide of Scientologist Patrice Vic.

The first half of the interview is mainly about the investigation into Scientology's infiltration of the Arcadia building company. In the second half, a caller discusses the suicide of Scientologist Rémy Petit, and a second caller asks whether enough is being done against cults in France. Georges Fenech concludes by noting that the attention of public authorities seems to have lapsed, and he urges more vigilance.

[video=youtube;lOGPoSVg5VA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGPoSVg5VA[/video]

View attachment 8468
Senator Nick Xenophon and Georges Fenech, November 2011

Transcript

Program: "Le grand direct de l'actu"
Host: Jean-Marc Morandini (JMM)
Guest: Georges Fenech (GF)
Date:September 12, 2014

JMM: In France, Scientology has been convicted many times for abuse of weakness. Now it faces a court case regarding psychological harassment, a lawsuit filed by the employees of a construction firm in the Yvelines department. Scientology claims it has 45,000 members in France. Scientology once again stands accused of wrongdoing. To give us a sense of where things are, our guest is Georges Fenech, UMP member of the National Assembly for the Rhône area, former president of the Interministerial Mission of Vigilance and Combat against Sectarian Abuses (MIVILUDES). Georges Fenech, good morning.
GF: Good morning.
JMM: Thank you for being with us. There's an impression today that we're unable to deal with Scientology decisively. Is that the case?
GF: Yes, indeed, it's ...
JMM: The court cases keep coming ...
GF: It's true.
JMM: Then nothing happens.
GF: True. The first trial in France was in 1978. In fact, it was L. Ron Hubbard's trial.
JMM: The creator of Scientology.
GF: Who was the founder. And then there was a whole series of trials, one of which I know very well, because I was the investigating judge in that case in Lyon, regarding the involuntary homicide of a young member. And then, there was —
JMM: That was the Vic case.
GF: The Vic case.
JMM: Exactly, a young man in Lyon who committed suicide..
GF: Absolutely. A young husband and father who threw himself out of a window. And then there was the Paris case that ended in 2009 with a severe conviction for organized fraud that applied to the Church of Scientology as a legal entity. This was the first time that the entity itself was convicted and heavily fined. The 2001 About-Picard Law concerning mental manipulation contains a provision which says that, after the second conviction of a legal entity, the court may order its dissolution.
JMM: So if the Church of Scientology, as a legal entity, is convicted in the current case —
GF: Yes.
JMM: The Church of Scientology in France could be dissolved.
GF: It could indeed face dissolution because this case concerns not just individuals but also the Church of Scientology as a legal entity. The investigation has just begun. It's in progress. It has been assigned to a specialized service that, I can say, is the only one of its kind in the world. We have a specialized police unit called CAIMADES, the assistance unit for all matters concerning cult-related abuses. The investigators of the CAIMADES police are presently looking into abuse of weakness and psychological harassment. Without, of course, prejudging the case, there may be a trial based on these charges.
JMM: Is the Church of Scientology a cult?
GF: The traditional answer: there's no legal definition for a cult, and neither is there one for a religion.
JMM: So it's a structure with a cultic nature?
GF: It's a structure in which cultic abuses are clearly endemic. I'm not the only one saying this. The courts have said it in many instances.
JMM: Then why, after so many years, is the Church of Scientology still there?
GF: Well —
JMM: It's hard to understand for an outside observer.
GF: Yes.
JMM: We keep hearing "Look out! The Church of Scientology is dangerous!" But they're still there!
GF: Yes. What can I say?
JMM: But why?
GF: For the past 20 years, I've been sounding alarm bells about this organization, which has caused a great deal of damage. And I'm obliged to weigh my words, otherwise there could be lawsuits. It's a very, very litigious organization with considerable financial resources. But it's been losing a bit of ground in France. They claim 45,000 members, but our estimates put the number at about 3,000. But they're very powerful and —
JMM: They're powerful throughout the world, especially in the United States.
JMM: Scientology has entire buildings.
GF: Sure, it's an organization —
JMM: It also has some American celebrities.
GF: Yes, and this current investigation is quite exceptional. It's about the Church of Scientology taking control of a company, a very successful company with a hundred employees —
JMM: A building company.
GF: With sales of 10 million euros. It infiltrated the company. First, it ensnared the company's president, who joined Scientology after the brutal death of his daughter. That's often how it is. When misfortune strikes, a person becomes easy prey.
JMM: More vulnerable, of course.
GF: He became a total believer and he then obliged his managers and employees to take Scientology courses and training —
JMM: It appears that's what happened in this company.
GF: And Scientologists actually came into the company itself to take over human resources, accounting, treasury, etc. and the company fell completely into the world of Scientology. In the past year and a half or so, about 30 employees left the company under terrible conditions of stress, with medical certificates. They had to do all sorts of sessions where 2 people stare at each other for 2 hours without speaking and then take turns insulting each other. These are the well-known procedures that the Church of Scientology uses to manipulate and break a person.
JMM: And it's important to clarify that the case you're describing is in France, in the Yvelines.
GF: It was a very fine company, but today, obviously, it's in very deep trouble. Even the son of the company's president is a plaintiff against his own father and against the Church of Scientology. It's a disaster. This company has been devastated.
JMM: We have a caller. Good morning, Laurence.
Laurence: Good morning.
JMM: You're particularly sensitive to developments concerning the Church of Scientology.
Laurence: Yes, because about 20 years ago, a cousin of mine committed suicide, but it would be more accurate to say that he was forced to commit suicide, because Scientology took control over him. He was 22 years old. This was in Nice. I'm in the Maritime Alps region. He was in Nice, and he was walking along the Rue de France. They gave him a flier and he went in for a test ...
JMM: A personality test.
Laurence: Right, a personality test. He got caught up in it, and they gave him a bit of authority. He emptied all his accounts, and one day he wanted to leave, but that was impossible. He was found with a suicide note, but because of the way he committed suicide, it was impossible for him to have done it alone.
JMM: Was there a trial in this case?
Laurence: The problem is, we wanted to file a complaint with my aunt. 20 years ago, my children were young, and I was asked: "Do you have children?" I said: "Yes." And he said: "Don't go to court. They might go after your children." If you google my cousin's name, he's a person who tried to leave but wasn't able to. His name was Rémy Petit, and he's always mentioned in the stories about people who died because of Scientology.
JMM: Georges Fenech, how to respond?
GF: Yes ...
JMM: Today, are they still using a personality test to recruit people?
GF: Yes, this is Scientology's usual recruitment method. You're accosted on the street as you exit a subway station. You let your guard down. A personality test, 200 questions. You get the results. You're in very bad shape, in serious danger. Come on over. For a small sum, you'll find the kind of care that you need and —
Laurence: Pardon me for interrupting, but Scientology's hold is especially strong, because you're free to come and go. You're not locked up. You continue working and living —
GF: Hmm ...
Laurence: It's true that they isolate you from the people you know —
GF: Not always. Not always, Laurence. Not always. We could talk at length about all those who've been held against their will for years on the Freewinds ship —
Laurence: My husband at the time went to the airport to prevent him from leaving. because he was told he was going for training in the United States. We went over to prevent him from leaving.
GF: But others go to Flag in Clearwater and it's years and years before they're seen again or they disappear completely.
JMM: Thank you, Laurence, for your perspective. Good morning, Christophe.
Christophe: Good morning, Jean-Marc. Good morning, Mr. Fenech.
GF: Good morning.
JMM: Go ahead, Christophe.
Christophe: I have a very simple question. Are we doing enough against cults in France? My impression is that there used to be a lot of talk about this. Now this morning's news raises the subject. But I have the impression that, for some time, not enough is being done to fight against cults. Perhaps it's just an impression, but I feel concerned about this.
JMM: Georges Fenech.
GF: Listen, I'll tell you quite frankly ...
JMM: Yes.
GF: I have the impression that we are indeed presently going through a sort of standstill. I'm a bit worried. I'm a bit worried, and I believe there's been a lowering of vigilance. As chairman of the study group on cults at the National Assembly, I've decided, because many people have been bringing this to my attention, to alert public authorities. It's imperative that all public authorities that cooperate with MIVILUDES find a new impetus, because we must not relax our vigilance. We must not lower our guard. My impression is ... and this gentleman, Christophe, is saying what I'm often hearing and what I myself perceive. It seems that no one's talking about this any more, that nothing's happening any more. In reality, there is terrible suffering, in particular children who don't go to school and live in groups that are almost completely closed, unseen, and who suffer irreparable harm. So I take advantage of this microphone to urge public authorities and MIVILUDES to renew the fight. This is a true fight for liberty.
JMM: Thank you, Georges Fenech, for joining us live and for making this appeal this morning on Europe 1. He is the UMP member of the National Assembly for the Rhône area.

Great stuff....thanks!
 

Leland

Crusader
A weekend bump for this thread.

What's the latest on the French lawsuit against the C of S in France?

Any info out there?
 
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