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Gerry and Caroline Armstrong

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I'm responding to my own post here, this is why.

I'm a newly out, from 2012.

I only heard of Jerry Armstong and Caroline since I started posting posting here in July 2012.

Here is what I would like to see on ESMB.

I would like to see a tread started by Caroline and Jerry, both, telling there story from the beginning of there involvement in scientology.

Now that would be cool. Just like Face did.

And that would be therapy, for newly outs. :thumbsup:


You are asking Gerry to write a whole BOOK here on ESMB? :confused2:
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I have enormous respect for Gerry and what he has done, and I've tried to stay out of this, but feel forced to speak up on one point.

I'm glad you did speak up CommunicatorIC.

I'm confident that I've read everything that Marty has posted on his blog since he started it. I'm equally confident that I've read everything that Mike has posted on his blog since he started it. I"m the person who cross-posts most of their material here.

To say that Marty and Mike are currently working to "gain Acceptance of Scientology using their OSA tech, blow drills, recovery tech, etc." is, at this point, at

best misinformed, and at worst deliberately ignorant.

If one were to actually read what Marty is writing these days, one would learn that he does almost nothing but attack LRH

and the tech
.

Almost. But the gaining acceptance of Scientology is an interpretation of actions and words. What is real, which I know about, is the Scientologists' war on Gerry and the people acting in concert with him, like me. That war is dirty, criminal and extends well beyond the unjust injunction into the IRS tax exemption, the DOJ, the cult's current power status around the world, etc. What they did and are doing to Gerry, what I've now gotten to understand and document for 13 years -- the whole conspiracy of Scientologists over so many years -- shocks my conscience. It is reasonable that Rathbun and Rinder's presented transformations are owed in part to our assembly of Armstrong Operation documents and our holding the line on the truth that you say they've arrived at. It is easily conceivable, and very standard, that their steps out are being worked out by an attorney or two.

If they are indeed progressing as homo sapiens out of a cultic experience then thank God that someone told them the truth during their progression. If they thought because of the great applause that they had attained enlightenment when they proclaimed that David Miscavige was the only thing wrong with Scientology, they would be stranded in that terrible state of ignorance and criminality. Without people telling Rathbun and Rinder the truth, there is very little evidence that they would ever have figured it out for themselves.

No, they get applause when they do Gerry's easy steps.

You seem to be taking the Scientologists' side in their war on Gerry, so I'll ask, do you know what Gerry wants from Rathbun and Rinder? Have you read his letters to them, his blog, his writings about the Scientologists' war on him? Here's the list as of 2010: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=32752

In terms of Rathbun's steps in the past couple years for example: Is Rathbun now giving refunds or even apologizing for the Scientology auditing he delivered in Texas?

I'm also btw, not claiming that Rathbun, Rinder et al are recovering people back into "corporate Scientology." That would not have to be the target in order for their activities to facilitate Scientology's acceptance. The specific OSA VFP is "Handled situations which result in the total acceptance of Scientology and its founder throughout the area."

div-7-org-board.gif


Nattering and attacking Hubbard of course demonstrates a certain (very low) level of acceptance. Nattering and attacking DM (or anyone) also demonstrates a level of acceptance. No one is saying the Scientologists don't have a daunting task to gain acceptance of Scientology and its founder. "Acceptance" is a big subject, which I've studied at length in a technical sense on the inside. Nothing Rathbun and Rinder have done have convinced me that they have renounced the agendas they've been forwarding for decades.

If one were to actually read what Mike is writing these days, one would learn that he does

almost nothing but show that Scientology is an abject failure
. In addition, Mike has recently stated that Hubbard knew about the Scientology opps against

Paulette Cooper and government infiltration.

None of what I've read from Mike Rinder about Paulette Cooper and government infiltration is new, revelatory or helpful to Scientology's victims. All the information needed to show that Scientology is an abject failure is already available. Rathbun and Rinder can add to it, they can participate in the takedown, and they can do what's right about the wrongs they perpetrated against people who knew 30 years ago, about what they're "cogniting" now.

Gerry may have legitimate complaints against Marty and Mike, but to say that they are working to "gain Acceptance of Scientology" is simply wrong, does no good, and quite frankly does not serve Gerry's interests either.

I disagree with your assessment and conclusion.

Rathbun wrote in 2009:

Rathbun said:
I do know that I have been working on an Ethics paradigm – sometimes referred to as Ethics Program Number One. I do know that I have seen many people rise from apathy and below to 4.0 and above on the Tone Scale as they become de-PTSed from Miscavige’s Church. Most of those people never received a formal session nor even had the opportunity (yet) to meet in person. The several I have met in person tend to confirm my estimate that most folks reporting incredible gains by handling the suppression in their lives are not exaggerating.

Independent Scientologists Community

See also this OCMB post for the text on Hubbard's Ethics Program #1.

In 2010, Rathbun told a fellow Scientologist (Michael Doven) that he was doing Scientology like he's never done before:

Rathbun said:
4:31

Um, I just wanted to-- I have talked about you, you know over a number of months, it's just like, all right, what's taking place here? How is it taking place? Why is it taking place? What is taking place? You know, how, how, how we get into this point to where one who once helped and who once helped people I know and care about, ah--

5:00

MR: I'm helping people Michael, now-- This is a wrong button.[Car horn.] I'm helping people now like I've never helped people before. In fact, I'm even, I'm doing my job unobstructed like I've never been able to do my job before. So, I don't-- That, that, that paradigm doesn't really work for me.

Transcript

Rathbun in June 2011:

martyrathbun09 | June 5, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Reply

Ingrid, I’ll keep saying it till I’m blue in the face: ONCE ENOUGH PEOPLE COME OUT MISCAVIGE DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COVER THEM ALL. WE’VE HIT A TIPPING POINT ON THAT SCORE. IF YOU ARE NOT EXPOSING HIM RUTHLESSLY AND PROMISE TO CONTINUE TO, OR IF YOU ARE NOT OVERTLY DELIVERING IN AN ORGANIZED GROUP FLAUNTING THE TMS, YOU ARE VIRTUALLY FREE TO DO WHATEVER YOU PLEASE – AND THEY CANNOT DO A BLESSED THING ABOUT IT. I ALSO SAID FROM THE OUTSET THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE HIDING – AND NOT PRODUCING ANYTHING OF WORTH TO THE CAUSE WHILE DOING SO – ARE DOING EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAS STOOD UP A DISSERVICE. MIKE AND ME , ROBERTO, SAM, KAREN, TONY AND TIZIANO AND SEVERAL OTHERS CREATE LOTS OF EFFECTS THAT KEEP THE TROOPS FOCUSED ON US. THAT PROVIDES AIR COVER TO OTHERS SO THAT ALL OF THE ABOVE CONTINUES TO BE MORE TRUE BY THE DAY. IN SHORT, I THINK YOU ARE 100% SPOT ON. AND I DON’T BLAME ROBERTO FOR ONE SECOND FOR PRESSING OTHERS.

Here's Mark Rathbun in comm with corporate Scientologists ca. 2011:

[video=youtube;_XjPyEv9xWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XjPyEv9xWU[/video]

Rathbun ca. September 2011 said:
Rich: Why are you going to Germany?

Rathbun: I'm going to Germany to clean up David Miscavige's mess that he's created over 3 decades and hundreds of millions of dollars. And I'm doing it free of charge, Rich.

Rathbun (edited by Rinder) in Memoirs in 2013:

Rathbun said:
CHAPTER TWENTY-FIVE EPILOGUE

Several months after Ron’s passing, the advice that resulted in Mary Sue Hubbard being dethroned and my being nearly expelled was finally followed. All of the Flynn litigation was settled for the sum of $ 2.6 million. To recap, we had seen the wisdom in 1981 of settling it for $ 1.6 million. Instead of doing so, we spent more than $ 100 million fighting it tooth and nail, keeping Ron captive in his mobile home bus all the while, only to win the right, five years later, to pay a million dollars more than the original settling price to be rid of it. In an ironic way, the 100 million might have been a good investment. It resulted in a war-hardened, small group at the reins of Scientology, just as Ron had intended. It resulted in the world at large being frightened of us again, just as Ron had advised. It resulted in a number of firm judicial precedents confirming Scientology was entitled to First Amendment protection as a religion, just as Hubbard directed. Whatever anybody wants to say about L. Ron Hubbard’s personality, there is no denying he could get what he wished like a force of nature – even when he was no longer around to witness it.

Rathbun, Mark (2013-05-28). Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior (p. 313). Amazon Books. Kindle Edition.

I don't believe that Rathbun and Rinder write honestly about what they believe. They undoubtedly know their words are being evaluated by Scientologists and exiting Scientologists and all kinds of other people. There's also no doubt that Rathbun and Rinder are aware of the various stages exiting Scientologists are often expected to exhibit, and they of all people know what to say to gain acceptance of the positions they say they have at various points in time.

It is very obvious that Rathbun's job, as he said he saw it, was a continuation of his job on the inside. Rathbun has worked for decades to get the acceptance of Scientology. Nothing he has said since these times has convinced me that he has really "moved on up." Nor has he shown the slightest bit of contrition for his decades of antisocial behavior and aggression against the SP class.

All the cognitions that he says he's having do absolutely nothing for his victims. I'm pretty sure his victims will know when he actually does something for them, because he will demonstrate that he has come around to the right relationship with them.
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
Soderqvist1: Caroline you should read what Marty has said in the last months!
it is obvious to me that he doesn't work to "gaining acceptance of Scientology"!
But on the other hand, it is one thing to admit that he has been wrong about Hubbard, and Scientology and quite another
to take responsibility for what he has done, in example against Gerry Armstrong!
I don't want to be in his shoes!

Scientology Indoctrination Abomination by Marty Rathbun
There is a specific sector of scientology ‘technology’ that clearly betrays the subject’s hypnotic, mind controlling nature.
That is L. Ron Hubbard’s ‘False Data Stripping’ technology.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/scientology-indoctrination-abomination/
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
Soderqvist1: Marty cannot be more explicit, it is clear cut!

August 8, 2014 Back To The Middle by M arty Rathbun
"If the last post offended you, the next several probably will too. If you want positive reinforcement for your faith, you will not find it here; but for possibly in the comments section where scientologists are free to provide their views with everyone else. There is an evolution afoot that perhaps ought be shared with readers here."

"one repeated question became increasingly difficult for me to answer: whether I recommend scientology to the public at large.
My answer has evolved with my own experience and thoughts. Ultimately, my answer is that I would not recommend to anyone that they get involved in scientology. That is because having thoroughly deconstructed the subject I came to realize that its control and exploitation elements are so thoroughly embedded within the teachings of Hubbard as to make the journey more likely to be on-the-whole negative than positive."

"I have devoted the better part of six years to attempting to help the subject survive by elimination of its negative elements. I concede that the experiment was a failure. As much as independent scientologists accuse the organization (RTC , CSI, et al) of operating on judgmentalism, arrogance, utiltarianism over conscience, form over substance, and Hubbard-revisionism dressed up as Hubbard-literalism I have found all those shortcomings just as prevalent in the independent field as in the organizations. I hold no rancor for such folks – inside or out – to the extent they stay out of the grills of people who ask them to. A dispassionate study traces those self-defeating qualities as stemming from Hubbard and his scientology works themselves."
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/back-to-the-middle/
 

Veda

Sponsor
Soderqvist1: Marty cannot be more explicit, it is clear cut!

August 8, 2014 Back To The Middle by M arty Rathbun
"If the last post offended you, the next several probably will too. If you want positive reinforcement for your faith, you will not find it here; but for possibly in the comments section where scientologists are free to provide their views with everyone else. There is an evolution afoot that perhaps ought be shared with readers here."

"one repeated question became increasingly difficult for me to answer: whether I recommend scientology to the public at large.
My answer has evolved with my own experience and thoughts. Ultimately, my answer is that I would not recommend to anyone that they get involved in scientology. That is because having thoroughly deconstructed the subject I came to realize that its control and exploitation elements are so thoroughly embedded within the teachings of Hubbard as to make the journey more likely to be on-the-whole negative than positive."

"I have devoted the better part of six years to attempting to help the subject survive by elimination of its negative elements. I concede that the experiment was a failure. As much as independent scientologists accuse the organization (RTC , CSI, et al) of operating on judgmentalism, arrogance, utiltarianism over conscience, form over substance, and Hubbard-revisionism dressed up as Hubbard-literalism I have found all those shortcomings just as prevalent in the independent field as in the organizations. I hold no rancor for such folks – inside or out – to the extent they stay out of the grills of people who ask them to. A dispassionate study traces those self-defeating qualities as stemming from Hubbard and his scientology works themselves."
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/back-to-the-middle/

Marty Rathbun's views re. Hubbard and Scientology have undergone a change in the last year or so, and I've acknowledged the changes, and I think they are genuine; however, there are still topics on which Rathbun remains silent and, as far as I know, he's still an advocate for Scientology's fraudulently obtained protected status as a religion and, as far as I know, he's still asserting that, at the time that tax exempt status was obtained in 1993, that Scientology was worthy of that tax exempt status.

Religious recognition and tax exemption are the bottom line, functioning as a protective umbrella.
 
Marty Rathbun's views re. Hubbard and Scientology have undergone a change in the last year or so, and I've acknowledged the changes, and I think they are genuine; however, there are still topics on which Rathbun remains silent and, as far as I know, he's still an advocate for Scientology's fraudulently obtained protected status as a religion and, as far as I know, he's still asserting that, at the time that tax exempt status was obtained in 1993, that Scientology was worthy of that tax exempt status.

Religious recognition and tax exemption are the bottom line, functioning as a protective umbrella.

Is that because he did that part?
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
I've been thinking quite a bit about this thread, and about Gerry and what happened to him especially.

Here's part of the problem, in my view. As scientologists (ex, add your own pre fix) there is the indoctrination that one cannot be a, 'victim' as one is the master of their own universe, or at least cause of their own destiny. Even in the 'outside' world there is an element of this, such as, 'there isn't smoke without fire...'

However, I think what happened to Gerry, and I only have a small fraction of the whole story, was evil and he was a victim. He was bullied from an organisation that had almost infinite resources, and the law, which should have protected him, was used maliciously.

So, yes, he was a victim. None of this was his fault. He didn't do anything wrong.

The other aspect is how someone who did bad things to someone while a member of an organisation makes it right. Also, there is an element of heavy indoctrination here. There is this weird idea in scientology that Person A can be horrible to Person B, but if Person A makes restitution to Person C, then that's OK and absolves them of past misdeeds using slogans such as, 'the greatest good' etc.

Lastly, I think there are a handful of people who were affected by some vicious campaigns of harassment by the C of S and who are owed an apology. Bob Minton (apparently Mike Rinder called him a friend at the end), Gerry, Pat Broeker, Clare and Marc Headley, Hana Whitfield, to name a few. There may be others, but the harassment was really personal.

Caroline, I disagree that Marty is trying to get recognition for the C of S, or even the subject of scientology. This was the case, maybe even a year ago, but definitely not anymore. It's been a gradual process but Marty seems rather anti Hubbard these days.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty Rathbun's views re. Hubbard and Scientology have undergone a change in the last year or so, and I've acknowledged the changes, and I think they are genuine; however, there are still topics on which Rathbun remains silent and, as far as I know, he's still an advocate for Scientology's fraudulently obtained protected status as a religion and, as far as I know, he's still asserting that, at the time that tax exempt status was obtained in 1993, that Scientology was worthy of that tax exempt status.

Religious recognition and tax exemption are the bottom line, functioning as a protective umbrella.

Might be to fine a point but Scientology was not given religious status by any part of the government ,it's prohibited to do so
by "The Bill of Rights"

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It got non profit corporate status which exempted it from taxes.

Just because you name your cooperation says "Church of" when you incorperate means nothing.

But they do love to play on that as way to promote it as such.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Might be to fine a point but Scientology was not given religious status by any part of the government ,it's prohibited to do so
by "The Bill of Rights"

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It got non profit corporate status which exempted it from taxes.

Just because you name your cooperation says "Church of" when you incorperate means nothing.

But they do love to play on that as way to promote it as such.

Yes, your "fine point" is understood.

If only it were that simple.

If Scientology, calling itself a "Church," had no effect, it would never have bothered. It's a tactical act: an "angle": very practical.


Video on Religious cloaking - the affidavit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZvqeGrbILw

The complete document:

http://www.lermanet.com/reference/brennan-dec.pdf

__________

Excerpt from the above video/affidavit on

RELIGIOUS CLOAKING

7. Based on years of work in the senior most legal bodies of organized scientology as covered above I have dealt with directly or supervised the handling of hundreds of legal matters involving the organizations of scientology which directly or indirectly had to do with using religious cloaking...

8. It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services, money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied. There are countless examples but the below are listed simply as a few of them:

(i) minimum wages would not have to be paid;

(ii) staff could be sent to different parts of the world and be able to stay locally as religious workers;

(iii) standard employee rights, such as those found in laws like the Fair Labor Standards Act, could be discarded and thus Hubbard policies involving such things as ethics conditions, the Rehabilitation Project Force and the like could be applied without outside interference;

(iv) less scrutiny would be allowed on the controls of the funds of scientology and the intermingling of funds between the corporations and other legal fictions of organized scientology;

(v) it was hoped that the treatment of public scientologists and the use of their funds would be considered outside the purview of governmental bodies;

(vi) couching the demand for and flow of monies within organized scientology using “religious” terms (such as by saying that clear cut mandatory payments for services were “fixed donations” and were mandated by the scripture of “exchange”) was hoped to cut off attempts by governments and others to look into them further...


11. Two of the things that organized scientology felt were of the most importance in order to avoid compliance with many laws that were contrary to Hubbard policy were the religious cloaking as covered above and a corporate restructuring to make it very difficult if not impossible for outsiders to ever get to the main assets of organized scientology and to ensure that the real leaders of organized scientology could be insulated from legal liability by hiding their real controls behind a myriad of corporate and other legal veils. It was considered both a defensive and offensive strategy to have such cloaking (religious and corporate) in place.

Defensively it makes it very difficult for individuals or even governments to force legal compliance of the many types of laws as covered above. It also makes it almost impossible to hold those that really control organized scientology responsible legally or to get to the financial assets of organized scientology spread out around the world. Offensively, it gives organized scientology a “safe base” from which to attack critics and/or anyone it feels is its enemy. Hiding behind religious cloaking and corporate veils it can act as a victim when people point out its crimes and injustices calling them “religious bigots” and even scaring governments, many of whom are not supposed to get involved with “religious matters”. By calling policies by Hubbard or Miscavige that are otherwise abusive or contrary to law “religious scripture” it was hoped to avoid legal scrutiny of same...




__________


This is the person who runs Scientology Inc.

miscavige-crop.jpg


Scientology Inc. claims to be a "religious institution."​
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Marty Rathbun's views re. Hubbard and Scientology have undergone a change in the last year or so, and I've acknowledged the changes, and I think they are genuine; however, there are still topics on which Rathbun remains silent and, as far as I know, he's still an advocate for Scientology's fraudulently obtained protected status as a religion and, as far as I know, he's still asserting that, at the time that tax exempt status was obtained in 1993, that Scientology was worthy of that tax exempt status.

Religious recognition and tax exemption are the bottom line, functioning as a protective umbrella.

There is no doubt in my mind that Rathbun, Rinder, et al. have been working to demonstrate all kinds of changes. Unfortunately, every person who has ever been conned by a confidence trickster buys the conman's professed moral changes as genuine. Let's not forget that as Scientologists, we accepted for [____] days/months/years that Hubbard's changes, advances, super ethics were genuine, and that even our changes were genuine. (Yes, I attested to Clear too.)

Rathbun is still selling Memoirs. He is also still selling and teaching a correspondence course for which Memoirs is a prerequisite. Rathbun is doing less than nothing about the lies and frame-ups he maintains and forwards with his book.

It is clear to me too that the IRS matter and tax exemption is the bottom line. The Armstrong case also provides an excellent litmus test for observing relevant change in Rathbun's behavior. Gerry certainly did not design it that way, but he and I have no choice but to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

The clear motivation for the Armstrong Op, and for Miscavige, Rathbun, Rinder and all the other Armstrong Operation operators to continue their op relates to the illicit gaining of IRS tax exemption and acceptance by the US government in the face of clear violations of public policy, as demonstrated in the Armstrong case alone.

Gerry Armstrong said:
I’ve communicated many times about discovering online in January 1997 some of the materials the Scientologists provided to the IRS about me in their submissions on which the 1993 tax exemption for their various US entities is based. [6]

The realization of the implications of these materials stunned me. The Scientologists were already fair gaming me in the legal and extralegal arenas. I immediately took steps to get out of the US to the hopefully greater safety of British Columbia, where I could get unstunned and where something could be done about it. The Scientologists had also withheld these IRS submission materials, despite court orders in Armstrong II to IV to produce exactly this type of materials. I cannot now identify precisely what excerpts I read in 1997, but I recall that they contained the Scientologists’ statement about conclusively proving my state of mind to be one sordid, sado-masochistic nightmare.

1023 said:
Church of Scientology v. Gerald Armstrong:

We have included some background information here and an epilogue to the decision in question. That is because the Service has continuously thrust the Armstrong case at us, demanding an explanation. The Armstrong case decision was so inflammatory and intemperate that it was used to stigmatize the Church in the legal arena and make other outrageous decisions possible. As we shall demonstrate below, all this decision ever involved was Armstrong’s state of mind, which subsequently obtained evidence proved conclusively to be one sordid, sado-masochistic nightmare. Furthermore, Armstrong’s state of mind horror stories have fallen on deaf ears in recent litigation. Relying on Armstrong or the Armstrong decision is wholly unjustified.

Taken from Scientology’s 1023 Submission, “Question 10″ in PDF format.

Some years later, while in BC, someone led me to more online materials from the Scientologists’ submission to the IRS, and more statements about me. Again, I cannot now be certain what precisely those statements were, but I recall they included the Scientologists’ asseveration that they truly believe I am psychotic — as opposed to the Scientologists’ other victims who, the Scientologists say, are solely motivated by greed.

Our consistent view has been that the civil litigants are solely motivated by greed. The exception is Armstrong who we truly believe to be psychotic. During the 1980’s, the IRS used every single civil litigant against Scientology as an IRS witness. The government, however, has no business in taking sides in a religious or civil dispute. It is indeed ironic to note that once the Flynn civil litigation in the 80’s was settled, with the exception of Armstrong, we hear no more of their “horror stories” from these paragons of virtue claiming to be interested only in “principle” and “what is right.”

The Scientologists do not say in their submission to the IRS that the reason their other victims are not heard from is not because they were motivated by greed, but because the Scientologists had shuddered them into silence with unlawful contracts and threats of their enforcement. I am heard from, not because I’m psychotic as the Scientologists and their collaborators black PR me, but because I know that such contracts are unlawful, and in fact are elements in the Scientologists’ criminal conspiracy.

In June 2009, the Tampa Bay Times published a special report, the “Truth Rundown,” which included a video interview of Rathbun giving his account of how the Scientologists obtained their 1993 IRS tax exemption. [8]

In August 2009, I wrote Rathbun to request his help to correct the lies and black PR on me that he had included in the submissions to the IRS, which he both prepared and presented.

I’m writing you politely to request your help to correct the black PR on me included in Scientology’s submissions or other statements to the IRS. The IRS’s grant of tax exemption to Scientology and its separate pieces is based in clear part on that black PR.

The specific black PR on me that I’m asking for your help with is contained in a set of Scientology’s answers to the IRS’s questions in the period before it granted tax exemption. In your video with the SP Times, you confirmed your involvement in events with the IRS before these answers were prepared and in writing and presenting the answers:

[…]

Immediately, and regardless of your becoming a wog or not, however, I’m asking most politely for your help to correct the black PR on me, which you know to be black PR in Scientology’s submissions to the IRS. That can be started, as a Scientologist who knows what evidence, facts and black PR are, although I’d admit that you could be even more honest and consequently more helpful as a wog. If you don’t know what to do, please contact me and I’ll tell you. If you do know what to do, then there’s the matter of you doing it, and I would remind you courteously that you haven’t. A key lie to me, and possibly to you Scientologists as well, and perhaps the easiest lie to correct, and the stupidest not to correct, is the lie that I’m psychotic. Please tell the truth. [9]

Rathbun never responded to my request, and has never corrected or even publicly addressed his false statements in his submissions to the IRS. I have also written him several times requesting that he tell the truth about his participation in other antisocial or criminal activities against me for the Miscavige regime. He has refused. He helped perpetrate still ongoing injustices, indeed crimes, and he has refused to help remedy them, by telling the simple truth. As he demonstrates in his Memoirs, however, Rathbun still helps the Scientologists in their determination to harm or destroy me. In February this year, I was led to an online copy of a letter Toronto Scientology attorney Clayton Ruby wrote dated November 6, 1992 to help the Scientologists get their 1993 IRS tax exemption. Ruby lied about me and defamed me in his letter and I wrote him on February 16 to demand he correct his lies and repair the damage he had done.[10] I sent him two other letters asking him to correct his lies about the Armstrong Op and me.[11] I also blogged a note about Ruby’s 1992 libel and Rathbun’s hiring Ruby after the Ontario Provincial Police’s raid on the cult in Toronto in 1983.[12] Ruby has not responded.

The discovery of Ruby’s 1992 letter led to my finding the Armstrong Op video transcript versions that the Scientologists also submitted to the IRS in 1992 to get their tax exemption. Doubtlessly, I still have only a fraction of the lies and perversions about me the Scientologists and their collaborators have submitted to the IRS, and other government agencies and personnel in the US, and around the world. What Caroline and I have assembled, however, is sufficient to demonstrate a criminal conspiracy, which makes its own resolution clear.

Finding these transcripts led me back to Rathbun’s 2009 Tampa Bay Times video interview about the IRS. He says that before Miscavige and he visited IRS Commissioner Fred Goldberg in 1991, the Scientologists had “a lot of expensive attorneys from D.C. and Washington” who had been “attempting at different levels to start negotiations.” Rathbun says that his surprise visit with Miscavige to Goldberg “opened the door [ ] to get negotiations going.” In this context, “negotiate” means to confer to reach an agreement or to arrange or settle by discussion and mutual agreement.

Rathbun says that after the surprise visit or door opening, the negotiation “went on for at least two years.” He says that he and primarily Miscavige “were literally commuting to Washington D.C. almost every week.” Rathbun says they would “see the IRS, present the answers to [the IRS’s] set of questions, get another set of questions, go back to L.A., get the information together [ ] Boom! Next Sunday, back on a plane, back to D.C., another meeting [ ] That went on for two years.”

Rathbun says that Goldberg opened up the door for the Scientologists to make a case for tax exemption. Rathbun says Goldberg opened that door by creating “a team that didn’t really have a long track record on this.” “This” here has to be understanding and standing up to the Scientologists’ lies and other antisocial or criminal behavior against citizens and even against the US Government. Rathbun says that Goldberg brought in IRS personnel to deal with the Scientologists who were “fresh, who [ ] knew exempt organizations but didn’t have a long history with Scientology.”

Rathbun black PRs the IRS personnel who had a track record and a long history with the Scientologists as “some real haters, some real Scientology haters within.” He says they “had an attitude of, no matter what you said, they were going to [ ] deny the exemption.” Rathbun is lying, and his reason for lying is obvious. The IRS personnel with track records and a knowledge of history, and, I suppose, consciences, hated the Scientologists’ lies and other antisocial or criminal behavior against citizens and Government. These knowledgeable IRS personnel might have especially hated, just as many knowledgeable non-IRS people hate, lies and other antisocial or criminal behavior being directed and justified by “religion.”

With knowledgeable, incorrupt track record IRS personnel, the Scientologists would have had to tell the truth in their submissions to “make a case for exemption.” And, of course, if they told the truth, the Scientologists could never obtain an exemption. Goldberg, according to Rathbun, got rid of the knowledgeable, track record personnel, and replaced them with a team of agents, supposedly selected for their ignorance, but definitely selected for their corruptness, who would then allow, and in fact require, that the Scientologists continue to lie to make the case for exemption. The Scientologists had to provide statements, facts and answers to the Goldberg team’s questions that were acceptable to the Goldberg team. The Scientologists and the Government conspirators reached an agreement on what would be acceptable by negotiations over two years. By law, what the Scientologists submitted had to be true. The Government conspirators had to have required that in vital areas what the Scientologists submitted be false. Even though Rathbun only admits to the “Goldberg team,” the term “Government conspirators” is proper because the various decisions, from the first door opening, involved other US Government departments and personnel beyond the IRS.

Rathbun says in his Tampa Bay Times interview that Goldberg’s getting rid of the team with the track record and bringing in a team without a long history with Scientology was “so positive and unique.” This is because it let the Scientologists get away with lying, indeed required them to lie. From the Scientologists’ viewpoint, that is as positive as it gets. Before then, having to deal with the track record IRS team, for years the Scientologists had not been able to get away with lying for their exemption; so finally being able to get away with their lying was unique. When Goldberg got rid of the incorrupt track record team, the Scientologists had to lie to give the Government conspirators both the basis for the exemption and the justification for actions the Government conspirators took to make it possible for the Scientologists to lie and have their lies accepted and work. The Scientologists’ submissions to the IRS that resulted in the exemption contain black PR about the knowledgeable IRS personnel that Goldberg took off the Scientology case or cases.

In the Times interview, Rathbun provides what he says were the Scientologists’ purposes for all their efforts to obtain IRS tax exemption: to facilitate getting away with the torts and crimes their victims were alleging in legal proceedings; and to keep, and keep making, money.

t was always perceived that the IRS was the most important thing to handle because if you have tax exemption you have [ ] religious recognition, you’re treated differently in courts, you know, there’s [ ] some level of almost immunity, First Amendment immunity, to a lot of the type of allegations that were being made.

So, the IRS was the big thing to handle. [W]hen I was involved in that in the late ’80s, we had calculated that they, the IRS, considered that the churches had upward of a billion dollars in liability.

And the total reserves of the church were [ ] a fraction of that. Maybe in the 200 million range. So, literally, they could have wiped Scientology out five times through.

So [ ] between having got rid of a lot of the civil suits in the mid ’80’s and ’93, when we ultimately got exemption, I mean the number one mission was to obtain [ ] tax exemption from the IRS and [ ] that was the bulk of what my attention was on and what I worked on.


The Scientologists considered their attitude, intention and actions against the IRS personnel who opposed their tax exemption demands over many years, war. The Scientologists even organized a monstrous “The War Is Over” celebration when the IRS granted the exemption in 1993. The Scientologists also considered they were at war with the Suppressive Person class, who were not IRS or Government agents from other departments, but citizens in many walks of life. These are people, the Scientologists declare, who impede or threaten them in their push to have their lies accepted and to get away with other antisocial or criminal behavior. The way ordinary citizens impede or threaten the Scientologists, naturally, is telling the truth about their lies and other antisocial or criminal behavior. In his scripture, Hubbard called the Scientologists’ “battle tactics,” how they were to treat or handle the SPs who they think threaten or impede them, “Fair Game,” or War.

In the Times interview, Rathbun only provides a couple of generalities about his actions and battle tactics against the IRS personnel who knew the Scientologists’ history of lies and other antisocial and criminal activities and impeded them in their seizure of tax exemption.

n the late [ ] ’80s [ ] and going into the early ’90s [ ] I was tasked with [ ] implementing [ ] strategies to try to overwhelm the IRS like they were attempting to overwhelm us. And it was sort of like a “fight fire with fire” situation.

[W]e brought [ ] Freedom of Information Act lawsuits, um, in numerous different jurisdictions. We had [ ] litigation strategies to [ ] counteract their strategies to deny certain churches exemption and that sort of thing. But [ ] it was a huge battlefield. It was nation-wide. It was literally twenty-seven hundred suits at one point.

And I was very much involved in coordinating and coming up with strategies and then executing a lot of that between the late ’80s and the early ’90s.


In a March 9, 1997 New York Times article, writer Douglas Frantz reported some more detail about the Scientologists’ war with the IRS, the “negotiations” with Goldberg’s new IRS team, and the war’s settlement conditions.[13]

The “type of allegations that were being made” against the Scientologists, for which they sought and obtained the “First Amendment immunity” that came with IRS tax exemption, were the type of allegations made by the class of people who sued the Scientology entities, and whose cases the Scientologists identify in their submissions to the IRS. These types of allegations were what the Goldberg IRS team had to have asked about in relation to the issue of the Scientologists’ violations of public policy in the service of their Scientology seniors.

Obviously the IRS accepted the negotiated statements that justify its grant of tax exemption. Obviously too, the IRS would not have granted the tax exemption without the negotiated statements. There are many pages I’ve now found of black PR on Flynn and me that the IRS solicited, and knew to be false. The IRS did not contact me at any time to verify, refute, clarify or contextualize the Scientologists’ claims about me. Hubbard’s death took care of the inurement problem the Scientologists had with the IRS. But a criminal conspiracy does not take care of their public policy problem. It confirms that the tax exemption is unmerited and unlawful.

From About the Armstrong Op
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Soderqvist1: Marty cannot be more explicit, it is clear cut!

August 8, 2014 Back To The Middle by M arty Rathbun
"If the last post offended you, the next several probably will too. If you want positive reinforcement for your faith, you will not find it here; but for possibly in the comments section where scientologists are free to provide their views with everyone else. There is an evolution afoot that perhaps ought be shared with readers here."

"one repeated question became increasingly difficult for me to answer: whether I recommend scientology to the public at large.
My answer has evolved with my own experience and thoughts. Ultimately, my answer is that I would not recommend to anyone that they get involved in scientology. That is because having thoroughly deconstructed the subject I came to realize that its control and exploitation elements are so thoroughly embedded within the teachings of Hubbard as to make the journey more likely to be on-the-whole negative than positive."

"I have devoted the better part of six years to attempting to help the subject survive by elimination of its negative elements. I concede that the experiment was a failure. As much as independent scientologists accuse the organization (RTC , CSI, et al) of operating on judgmentalism, arrogance, utiltarianism over conscience, form over substance, and Hubbard-revisionism dressed up as Hubbard-literalism I have found all those shortcomings just as prevalent in the independent field as in the organizations. I hold no rancor for such folks – inside or out – to the extent they stay out of the grills of people who ask them to. A dispassionate study traces those self-defeating qualities as stemming from Hubbard and his scientology works themselves."
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/back-to-the-middle/

Pretty explicit yes, Peter, but not clear cut. Some people used to think that real Scientology ops would never say "Xenu." (Of course that is a ridiculous falsehood--they'll say anything.) I can easily see the above statement as Rathbun's way of saying "Xenu." I can also see where this "change" and earlier "changes" are program targets on evals, which have even been sidechecked by cult attorneys.

I am aware that some people here and elsewhere hold a more or less fervent, even emotionally invested, conviction about their beliefs in the authenticity of Rathbun and Rinder's communications about their ever-changing and complex relationship with Hubbard and Scientology. Clearly Scientologists are able to install such conviction or belief or acceptance of claims, assertions etc. with their "fourth dynamic" social engineering tech. Rathbun and Rinder are probably the world experts on this tech, and they have had a lot of help on all the message boards by witting and unwitting Scientologists, anonymous and otherwise. The strength of people's convictions regarding Rathbun and Rinder is absolutely unsurprising!

Remember too that in Loyalist Op #1, Rathbun and Rinder, and related personnel, communicated essentially what they've been communicating these past few years in Loyalist Op Redux: Miscavige is a criminal destroying whatever is good in Scientology and they want him jailed. Yet Rathbun, Rinder, et al. were working directly for Miscavige to frame Gerry and commit other crimes against him. To not acknowledge that they are just as capable now of lying in their protestations of moral changes now, and that there is massive evidence that they still serve the Scientologists' purposes in vital matters -- Scientology v. Armstrong, the IRS tax exemption, Department of Justice -- is ostrich tech.


I think Drs. Hare, Cleckley, Stout and the other world experts on psychopaths, sociopaths, cult leaders etc., would empathize with you people, even as they give you a serious admonishment. Many expert books on this topic include the experts' admissions of having been fooled themselves by psychopaths.
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Caroline, thank you for explaining the connection between the IRS tax exemption and the Armstrong case. I never understood how it dovetailed together, but now makes sense, well, as much as any psychotic behaviour would make sense!

I find it incredible that despite judicial decisions in Gerry's favour, he was subjected to legal harassment.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm responding to my own post here, this is why.

I'm a newly out, from 2012.

I only heard of Jerry Armstong and Caroline since I started posting posting here in July 2012.

Here is what I would like to see on ESMB.

I would like to see a tread started by Caroline and Jerry, both, telling there story from the beginning of there involvement in scientology.

Now that would be cool. Just like Face did.

And that would be therapy, for newly outs. :thumbsup:

Gib,

I've always liked your stuff. :thumbsup: I much appreciate your kind and considerate reference to me and my stuff, and I am glad you are here with all of Us as you consistently bring much to the table of this here Moveable Feast, :yes:

As I've said before on ESMB, I've not told "everything" and, probably, never will...Not so much to protect me but rather to not go "over the line" in violating confidences and protect the sovereignty, right to privacy and the pursuit of happiness of others.

I've said what I've said and still, from time to time, say judiciously and carefully to provide a record of stuff that so many paid the price for and deserve to know from my personal "Take".

Gerry has provided, done and written much of great importance. Perhaps he has not written "all" but neither have I. Cowboy is much in the same boat as I and many others are that have Posted here and elsewhere.

BTW, I'm not in personal contact with Gerry and, unless one of a handful of Folks has violated a personal confidence (which I doubt, without reservation), Gerry does not know the IRL identity of "Face".

I understand the "spirit" of your Post and the sincerity regarding the value of honest, straightforward no fluff narratives. I agree and am soooo thankful for all that my contemporaries have said, revealed and done which is far, far beyond the initial importance and lasting value of what I have said, revealed and done, and has personally been immense help...More than words could ever say. Without Armstrong, Mayo, Douglas, Lerma, Whitfield, Burden, Sullivan, Erlich, Smohen, Walters, etc, etc there would not only be no context or foundation to what I have Posted here on ESMB, there might not have ever been the "dots to connect", "cumulative dots" or "playing board" for there to be an ESMB and for Marty to have the wide open window of opportunity he has had. That ESMB is what it has been and continues to be is because of they that went before, due to Emma and attributable to All of Us. :thumbsup:

IMHO, there's been too many skulls split, limbs severed, throats cut and backs stabbed for all of the hatchets to ever be buried. We that "ascended" to the "Inner Circle" all have "Blood on our Hands". For some, most of the "blood on their hands" is their own and, for some, most of the blood on their hands is the blood of others...And IMHO, many of Us are somewhere in between--including yours truly. :coolwink:

Gerry, IMHO, owes Us nothing. Marty, IMHO, has not honestly examined what he owes Us and looked into his own Heart without flinching. But, Marty is still "walking the path" towards "The Path" that Gerry, alone and on his own, chose and stepped onto 3 decades ago. :clap:

Face:)
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
As I've said before on ESMB, I've not told "everything" and, probably, never will...Not so much to protect me but rather to not go "over the line" in violating confidences and protect the sovereignty, right to privacy and the pursuit of happiness of others.
Face . . . but you might want to help out on this thread. Folks have not come up with an answer as yet. :whistling:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-stop-auditing&p=971423&viewfull=1#post971423

Maybe the photo will fire off some of those so called "memory synapses" and you'll tell another tale. :biggrin:

:coolwink:
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, your "fine point" is understood.

If only it were that simple.

If Scientology, calling itself a "Church," had no effect, it would never have bothered. It's a tactical act: an "angle": very practical.


Video on Religious cloaking - the affidavit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZvqeGrbILw

The complete document:

http://www.lermanet.com/reference/brennan-dec.pdf

__________

Excerpt from the above video/affidavit on

RELIGIOUS CLOAKING

7. Based on years of work in the senior most legal bodies of organized scientology as covered above I have dealt with directly or supervised the handling of hundreds of legal matters involving the organizations of scientology which directly or indirectly had to do with using religious cloaking...

8. It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services, money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied. There are countless examples but the below are listed simply as a few of them:

(i) minimum wages would not have to be paid;

(ii) staff could be sent to different parts of the world and be able to stay locally as religious workers;

(iii) standard employee rights, such as those found in laws like the Fair Labor Standards Act, could be discarded and thus Hubbard policies involving such things as ethics conditions, the Rehabilitation Project Force and the like could be applied without outside interference;

(iv) less scrutiny would be allowed on the controls of the funds of scientology and the intermingling of funds between the corporations and other legal fictions of organized scientology;

(v) it was hoped that the treatment of public scientologists and the use of their funds would be considered outside the purview of governmental bodies;

(vi) couching the demand for and flow of monies within organized scientology using “religious” terms (such as by saying that clear cut mandatory payments for services were “fixed donations” and were mandated by the scripture of “exchange”) was hoped to cut off attempts by governments and others to look into them further...


11. Two of the things that organized scientology felt were of the most importance in order to avoid compliance with many laws that were contrary to Hubbard policy were the religious cloaking as covered above and a corporate restructuring to make it very difficult if not impossible for outsiders to ever get to the main assets of organized scientology and to ensure that the real leaders of organized scientology could be insulated from legal liability by hiding their real controls behind a myriad of corporate and other legal veils. It was considered both a defensive and offensive strategy to have such cloaking (religious and corporate) in place.

Defensively it makes it very difficult for individuals or even governments to force legal compliance of the many types of laws as covered above. It also makes it almost impossible to hold those that really control organized scientology responsible legally or to get to the financial assets of organized scientology spread out around the world. Offensively, it gives organized scientology a “safe base” from which to attack critics and/or anyone it feels is its enemy. Hiding behind religious cloaking and corporate veils it can act as a victim when people point out its crimes and injustices calling them “religious bigots” and even scaring governments, many of whom are not supposed to get involved with “religious matters”. By calling policies by Hubbard or Miscavige that are otherwise abusive or contrary to law “religious scripture” it was hoped to avoid legal scrutiny of same...




__________


This is the person who runs Scientology Inc.

miscavige-crop.jpg


Scientology Inc. claims to be a "religious institution."​

Thanks Veda :) got it
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
A brief note that may be relevant to Mike Rinder.

This morning Mike posted about a new Scientology front-group to be announced at the upcoming IAS Anniversary, Voice for Humanity. Mike's post is:
Monumental Announcement Under The Big Top
http://www.mikerindersblog.org/monumental-announcement-under-the-big-top/

One of his readers noted that Scientology usurped the name of a preexisting, non-Scientology group named Voice for Humanity. Another of his readers provided a screenshot of a now deleted post by the Pretoria DSA announcing the Scientology version of Voice for Humanity.

As of this writing Mike's post has 79 published comments.

I cross-posted his discovery here as:
NEW Scientology Front-Group: Voice for Humanity! Already one. Trademark Infringement?
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-Humanity!-Already-one-Trademark-Infringement

So far my cross-post here has one reply -- by me, adding new information.

It appears that while some people here are writing non-falsifiable, increasingly long, increasingly convoluted, increasingly conspiratorial comments about how Mike is not "really" an ex-Scientologist, and it is somehow all a ruse, he and his commentators, unlike to date people here, are actually, you know, doing shit.

And, no, I'm not aiming this at Gerry, who has done far more than his share. I'm just increasingly amazed, and to be honest disturbed, by the ability of some people to ignore what is actually being done now, what is actually happening now, as well as their ability to dismiss same as being part of grand conspiracy.

I never thought that I would first turn to Mike Rinder's blog for anti-Scientology news and activism, as opposed to navel-gazing.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Face . . . but you might want to help out on this thread. Folks have not come up with an answer as yet. :whistling:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-stop-auditing&p=971423&viewfull=1#post971423

Maybe the photo will fire off some of those so called "memory synapses" and you'll tell another tale. :biggrin:

:coolwink:


Hat's is right. She was married to Franky Freeman in the early Apollo years.:yes:

Damn, I just don't remember her name. :confused2:

I don't honestly think Franky would mind me saying this here, Franky was a stylish, charming, good looking, svelte and very "hip" guy back then. All of his wives and "conquests" (whom--the ones I know of and remember--I will not name) back then were stunning. :coolwink:

BTW Franky's class, demeanor and way with gorgeous Ladies was a secret impetus for me to want be CL VIII and OT VII, too. :drool:


Face:blush:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Damn, I just don't remember her name. :confused2:
Come on folks! I wasn't anywhere near the Apollo and I might have a clue! :hysterical:

Isn't she Nikki Freeman aka Nikki Merwin aka Mary Sue Hubbard’s best friend (and co-dabbler in astrology and numerology).

Skip Press writes:

At the time I was dating Nikki Merwin, a former Vegas showgirl who was Mary Sue Hubbard’s best friend. Nikki told me that Hubbard’s only upset about his wife going to prison was Mary Sue getting strip-searched in Kentucky. Nikki described driving around the Hollywood hills with Hubbard looking for a house to buy, only to have him finally conclude derisively there were “too many Scientologists” in the area. (I knew this was true; a friend told me about saying hello to Hubbard and Nikki in nearby Beachwood Canyon when they stopped at a stop sign.)

http://www.themortonreport.com/cele...ness-and-lisa-marie-presleys-perpetual-scowl/

Tell me it ain't' so! :unsure:

:hysterical:

PS:
PROMOTIONS OFFICER'S SELECTION BOARD

2nd QUARTER 1975

LT. (JG) NIKKI MERWIN is promoted to LIEUTENANT (RA).
 
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