Gerry Armstrong is in Berlin to talk about Rathbun and Rinder

Mystic

Crusader
L. Ron Hubbard ----->> :grouch:

Marty, COTB, the Clam on the Beach leading the boohoos and weepers on up a little higher ----->> :grouch:


 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Rathbun will NEVER forgive Gerry Armstrong for getting the truth about Hubbard out into the open. Imagine how much easier his job would be if the people at large didn't know that LRH was a lowlife whose only talent was roping good people into the bad cult he created. It's because of Gerry Armstrong that "besmirching the 'good name' of L. Ron Hubbard" has become fashionable. Thank you, Mr. Armstrong, for your integrity and the shit you endured for telling the truth. :thumbsup:

Gerry Armstrong is a hero !
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/marty_rathbun_e.php

<snip>
Gerry Armstrong, an ex-Scientologist, has announced that he's going to be talking about Rathbun and Rinder in Berlin -- Armstrong appears to want to set the record straight about how much Rathbun, for example, was behind Armstrong's terrible treatment by Scientology's legal team. I asked Rathbun if he's tried to reconcile with Armstrong now that he's left the church.

"When you give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that. But apparently he's incapable of that. Maybe when he gets on a grip on himself, I'll sort it all out with him," Rathbun answered.

He pointed that another man who had been through rough treatment by OSA, attorney Graham Berry, was in Hamburg with him and Caberta at all times.

"I think she heard some rumors about my incredible persuasive abilities, so she had him there to keep me in check," he says with a laugh. "He was there the whole time." Berry, unlike Armstrong, has said positive things about Rathbun's current efforts to counter his earlier role in the church.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
If Rathbun and Rinder were to attempt to put things right with Gerry Armstrong and Keith Henson, I might be willing to cut them some slack. Until they do, they are unreformed in my eyes.



*Yes, I know there's a long list, but that would be a good start.
 
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Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
If Rathbun and Rinder were to attempt to put things right with Gerry Armstrong, and Keith Henson, I might be willing to cut them some slack. Until they do, they are unreformed in my eyes.



*Yes, I know there's a long list, but that would be a good start.

I have no expectations of any decency from either Rathbun or Rinder - and my money is still on them both being in collusion with little dainty davie boy.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I have no expectations of any decency from either Rathbun or Rinder - and my money is still on them both being in collusion with little dainty davie boy.

I've resisted that explanation as being a bit too 'far-out' until now, but after the nonsense that went on in Hamburg, I'm seeing it as a very real possibility.

tumblr_ks9nduDA3o1qz6f9yo1_r1_500.gif

 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
The two people I knew both mentioned (later) that they were very disappointed in these OT levels.

Of course they attested.

And, afterwards, if someone tries to say that "oh, I don't really quite feel that way about it now", then they send YOU TO ETHICS and hit you with "you falsely attested". YOU lied. Members learn quickly that "getting sent to ethics" sucks. Most or many rearrange the content of their minds to avoid that.

To compound matters even worse, it is a HIGH CRIME to invalidate or denigrate any "state of OT". So, even if you truthfully don't feel you got the gains, you can't tell anyone!!!! :duh: Or, get declared!

... and of course pay out of your own pocket for any costs including the cost of "repair"!! You're trapped whichever way you go, and it's always YOUR fault, and it always costs something.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
It is entirely possible that M&M are so ashamed of what they did while in that it is not possible for them to even look at what they did in any detail. Every now and then there is alluded to a monster that they were involved with, but no intimate detail of that monster, or the parts of that monster they played with.

I believe that both of them will not be able to heal until they critically think about their past. Part of healing may involve divulging all of monster.

I also believe that is what is keeping them in so to speak, that is how they can still justify treating people like shit they still believe.
"When you give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that. But apparently he's incapable of that. Maybe when he gets on a grip on himself, I'll sort it all out with him," Rathbun answered.

Saying sorry without reservation takes a huge being, that sounds hilarious but is true in this case.
 

Veda

Sponsor
"When you [Gerry Armstrong] give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that. But apparently he's incapable of that. Maybe when he gets on a grip on himself, I'll sort it all out with him," Rathbun, the OT 8, said.


What is Gerry Armstrong asking of Marty Rathbun?

1. Communicate to Gerry.

2. Debrief to Gerry, and his legal representatives, on all the lies, black PR, legal actions, Intelligence actions, etc., Marty knows about, that were perpetrated against Gerry, his family and associates.

3. Execute declarations that contain fact elicited in the debrief.

4. Make himself available to testify in any legal proceedings to correct the injustices or situations above.

5. Apologize if he wants.



Rathbun is afraid of points 2,3 and 4. Questions would likely reach back into the early and mid 1980s, and into the shady 1993 Scientology deal with the IRS.


From Rathbun's '31 Factors':

Marty's 'Factor #11':

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has consistently given little interest and funds for defending public relations attacks on Hubbard."


An excerpt from Judge Breckenridge's summation at the end of 'Armstrong vs Church of Scientology' in 1984:

"As indicated by its factual findings, the court finds the testimony of Gerald and Joycelyn Armstrong, Laurel Sullivan...Omar Garrison, Kima Douglas, and Homer Shomer to be credible, extremely persuasive... In all critical and important matters their testimony was precise, accurate and rang true...

"The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar...

"The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

"At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents..."
 

apocalyptic

Patron with Honors
Thomas is an awesome man, I wish I had the chance to meet him.

I am glad he is giving the forum to Gerry to be able to speak out.

And for anyone who wonders about Rinder and Rathbun - this speaks volumes.

Remember this - THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT THEY DID TO GERRY. Nothing.

They have not extended him the apology nor the help he has requested.

And we believe they will live to regret their decision. Big time.

Whether or not they change it.

Apocalyptic
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I don't think davey will be passing the torch to Marty. Dave has run a campaign on him that makes him a bigger squirrel than David Mayo in the eyes of the faithfull. True, most of them probably don't know a lot of what goes on but if the read Freedum magazine they know marty perverts the tech.

Additionaly, I think if Dave leaves, dies or becomes so insane he can't run the show anymore, the IRS will want to do a thorough audit before anyone else takes over. At the time Dave leaves the helm, the authorities from some quadrant will want a thorough look because the controversy has been flamed into the media more so than ever.

IMO the biggest protection that Dave has is the 501 C (3) status. If he leaves he doesn't have that anymore and he becomes fair game to whatever authority takes an interest. I believe that is the reason he freaks out when his name is connected to any negative activity involving the church because that makes him a target upon exit.
Marty doesn't have 501 C(3) status so he can't ruffle any feathers. It's probably why he's taking such a big win on the Germany trip, it gives him a connection and a possible haven.

I don't buy that exactly. Yes, it is true after a fashion, HOWEVER ... there is probably more to this than meets the eye. Regarding Cof$ ... that they are still on his case after all this time ... we are coming up on the 30th year anniversary of Gerry leaving Cof$ with the genuine biographical material of the HubTurd ... that is understandable, knowing the Cof$ and its paranoid, obsessive nature. Marty and Mike may have set that attack in motion, but with the Cof$ it has continued on automatic. The lack of apology tho ... I think it is more than just arrogance. Here are three possibilities ... Marty covertly works for the Cof$. Perhaps Marty is Dave's next in line, and, rather than die as the Cof$ pope, Dave wants to pass the mitre and retire. But since there is no such thing in the Cof$ as far as a procedure goes for coming up with the new head honcho ... and since announcing a desire to step down would cause a huge internal power struggle at a time when the Cof$ is very vulnerable ... perhaps the handoff is being done covertly. Furthermore, it would have to be done in such a dramatic fashion as to be totally rebooted in the eyes of the public, such that new public can be gotten in. The old public has been sucked dry as if by a spider anyways. (How is that for a conspiracy theory?)

A second scenario ... Marty is still overwhelmed as far as confronting his own overts towards Gerry and simply hasn't come to grips with it yet and is still struggling with it and not yet ready to fully own up to what he did.

A third scenario ... Marty has some sort of vulnerability that would be exposed. That is hard to imagine considering statutes of limitations, or perhaps he is worried about DM going totally bonkers and doing something really really destructive if Marty were to publically come clean with Jerry. Marty has commented that DM is capable of throwing a Coolaid party.

Pete
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
f.e. probably stands for "for example", and I think Nicole just forgot that the correct abbreviation is e.g. What are Latin abbreviations doing in the English language anyway? :)


Just want to say I have not written the text, I "only" copied it...:wink: Thanks to the Anonymous on wwp... But I guess you are right here.

:flowers2:
Nicole
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
My wish is that this all *finally* gets sorted
out...both for Gerry, and anyone else stuck with lies and Fair
Game that has been run on them, by the "church" of $cientology.

I thank ALL who have helped and are helping expose the abuses
of this insidious, mafia-like CULT.

Blessings.....:rose:

Tory/Magoo
 

morizo

Patron
Remember this - THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT THEY DID TO GERRY. Nothing.

They have not extended him the apology nor the help he has requested.

No they haven't at all:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/marty_rathbun_e.php
"It's true. I had a hand in the creation of the monster and now it's come back to haunt me," he says.
Gerry Armstrong, an ex-Scientologist, has announced that he's going to be talking about Rathbun and Rinder in Berlin -- Armstrong appears to want to set the record straight about how much Rathbun, for example, was behind Armstrong's terrible treatment by Scientology's legal team. I asked Rathbun if he's tried to reconcile with Armstrong now that he's left the church.
"When you give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that. But apparently he's incapable of that. Maybe when he gets on a grip on himself, I'll sort it all out with him," Rathbun answered.
Rathbun and Rinder are to take responsibility for their actions during their time at Co$, make up for the damage done to society and individuals. I wouldn't care about appologies from a person who fairgamed me. Even as Sea Org members they had a choice.
Rathbun has delivered a show in Germany. And Gerry's going to put things in perspective now, so the public will see the creepyness of this cult (+ its derivatives) and understand the credibility of Rathbun.

It's not enough to say: :bigcry:look what the cult has done to me!
Yes, creepy cult, but we were part of it and helped making it creepy. Marty and Mike even more than most of us. It's not their CHOICE to speak out to the FBI, it's a crime not to do so.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
<snip>I wouldn't care about appologies from a person who fairgamed me. <snip>

How dark and cold our world would be without forgiveness. In such world I don't want to live.:no:

But imo the person that Fair Gamed you, has to forgive first him/herself and the person has to look at the crimes he/she has done and talk with the person about this and answer questions. Than the person can ask for forgiveness with an appology.


Our world is not easy to categorize in black and white, like the Cult told us. It is colourful.
 
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