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Gerry Armstrong

Discussion in 'Fair Game and Disconnection Victims' started by Caroline, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Maybe it is not Veda who might be undermining Mike's current good works but the absence of sufficient historical facts that Mike could provide that appear to be needed to end completely the torts that are undermining liberty and justice for many? Can a criminal organization be frozen in its tracks and not just be ostracized or hinder by a judge if the whole truth is not revealed.

    A judge or a jury could decide better with more facts to put on probation to just hope for no more crimes or put in solitary confinement to ensure no more crimes.
  2. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster More Skeptical Than You

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    Veda, [edit: uncalled for insult to Veda removed by author] no assertion as to the veracity of Mike Rinder's public statement(s) or Marty Rathbun's corroborating claim(s) is made in the above paragraph that I wrote.

    And in this case, no assertion was made whatsoever. As for the question to which you evidently object, it is perfectly valid to point out an apparent logical inconsistency of accepting one set of statements by a supposed eyewitness as true whilst simultaneously calling the man a liar.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  3. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Compartmentalisation of the truth is something that Hubbard preached as well as practiced throughout His Reign of Error as "Source."

    It's impossible to know who knew what when it comes to the cult, unless you could actually be there when the info was shared OR you have dox.

    There was stuff I was privy to that was truly scary "top-sekrit" stuff yet mundane things I should have know about I never had a clue about, simply a matter of being there at the time or not. There was never any real logic about the way info was spread, particularly in the SO. I got told stuff because I was there and willing to listen, so I heard about sexual preferences and petty (and not-so-petty) theft etc. etc. that really I had no use for. And much, much worse stuff - like who was doing evil stuff to kids.

    I doubt that ANYONE could know everything that went on within the cult, despite both Hubbard and Miscavige claiming They do. Juniors cover up bad news rather than forward it up-lines if they think it will mean that they themselves will be punished for it, or they willingly pass it on and blame it all onto a convenient junior who gets casually tossed under the bus.

    And, seriously, we were all rats in the same cage. And constantly exhorted to write KRs if we saw anything wrong, but knowing the KRs would go nowhere if you did (except of course knowing that the senior written up would get revenge on you at some point.)

    There was a lot of evil shit that this cult spewed out via its minions.

    YMMV, but I just can't follow up on whatever evil shit happened to me because of whoever as long as the cult itself continues to harm and destroy.

    I just don't care that much for my own personal satisfaction while I have friends who are still being brutalised, even if they are willing participants at times.
  4. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    That does seem to be your lame repetitive choice insult, Sneakster, even after you've been warned about it.
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Exactly. :clap:
  6. GE cmdr

    GE cmdr Patron with Honors

    Can someone sum up the Gerry vs Rinder battle in a few sentances. These walls of text are kind of hard to read and out of context.
  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks for this, Scooter.

    You have a great way of putting things in perspective and I love you for it. :bighug:

    I sure don't want to keep going back & forth over things in the distant past.

    You said

    This is so true. There are no experts with the correct entire story, there are only individuals who saw different pieces of it from their perspective. Nobody is an "expert" on everything based on their past position in scn or anything else. Why would one person be more accurate than another based on the fact that person once held a higher rank in scientology or because they have a bigger circle of exscn friends or for any other preferential reason? Nobody should be discounted for relaying a different version or a part of the story from their perspective that they actually lived through.

    For years, few people believed Jesse Prince's story with the gun, but it really happened and now they know it is true. Many, many of the abuses we and others suffered were not believed by those who came forward. It took years and years. That alone was, and still is, a huge battle - getting others to believe us that COS really does commit these heinous crimes.

  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    I can see different ways that Gerry might approach the problem of getting factual revelation and satisfaction from the source(s) of Fair Gaming that he battled since that fateful moment he heroically decided to not lie for L. Ron Hubbard and his cult. The stunning courage and clarity of Gerry's decision approaches mythological proportion--and an epic David vs. Go-Lie-eth battle ensued.

    That was and still is the God of Scientology (Hubbard's) sacred mandate to all Scientologists: "Go Forth and LIEth!" Gerry refused, and by doing so he demonstrated the "Personal Integrity" that Scientologists are so fond of writing success stories about and clay demoing--but never in fact demonstrating by their actions.

    I was just re-reading some of Caroline's and other posters' messages and couldn't help but remember a post I once made about how Mike Rinder should write a tell-all book. There are many reasons (other than the financial gain he may realize) why it would be a great service to Scientologists, Ex-Scientologists and persons who wish to understand the pernicious viral effects of propaganda lies both in the EXTERNAL world (e.g. Nazis, ISIS, Terrorists seeking martyrdom and 72 virgins, et al) and the INTERNAL world--that delicate ecosystem without our own minds that can so easily support or destroy us if a knowing or unknowing lie is introduced. I speak here of the propaganda lies that we willingly tell ourselves or embrace in our own lives for many reasons, not the least of which is vetting the people, groups, causes, philosophies and religions we choose to embrace.

    In any case, I looked but couldn't quickly find that post about Mike writing a book. I think (if I remember correctly) the suggested title would be "ACCEPTABLE LIES", a play on Hubbard's ever-so-ethical "acceptable truth" tech.

    While looking for that post, I ran into another of interest from way back in 2010 on a thread I started called "WHO IS THE MOST DANGEROUS PERSON IN SCIENTOLOGY". As right or wrong as that post may have proven to be today (7 years later), I think there nonetheless relevant elements that speak to the discussion here. It's not short but some may find it interesting now that Rinder has gone more public than ever with his anti-scn blog and multi-part TV Series with Leah Remini.

    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  9. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Oh wait, I just found that post. It's interesting to see the "EVOLUTION OF AN APOSTATE" as Mike Rinder continued to defrag his mind's Scn Operating System in 2013.

  10. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Dammit, that's what I wish journalists would do on their expose scn programs. Immediately jump to footage proving the pervasive lying that scn does. Blow the whistle dammit!
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    For my money, THAT is what the public (and the vast majority of the failing Justice System and IRS) has not been able to understand.

    The LYING.

    That's what Scientologists fail to understand as well.

    That's what the public ("wogs") has finally begun figuring out--long before Scientologists ever did.

    So much for "knowing how to know", LOL.
  12. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    I doubt that Mike would consider he had time to write a book at the moment but I sure hope he does - maybe some astute publisher would give him a big-enough advance to cover his family costs while he does so.

    He did do a great blog post recently that laid out why the cult lies - he quoted various GO and OSA ref.s on the sacredness of attacking thine enemy per source. But taking it that a step further and getting into the world of total "acceptable truths" (even to self) would be a great way of truly educating the world at large on how ALL cults operate, not just Hubbardian Lyingtology.
  13. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think that here in OZ the consensus opinion is that this particular toxic cult does nothing but lies. Bryan Seymour, Steve Cannane and others have compiled damning evidence of this and presented it to the Oz public over the years.

    We've also had great politicians like Nic Xenophon, the late John Kay (a NSW Upper House MP) and others who've stood up for the truth.

    I think one of the great strengths of what Leah and Mike are doing is spotlighting the cult's responses (using Standard Tehc of course) to show how feeble-minded the cult's responses are to the truth being told. Both of them come across as believable and this is accentuated by the cult's "Dead Agenting" Tehc.:roflmao:

    I've lost count of the number of peeps who've told me that cult spokesholes show by their body language that they're lying flat out like a lizard drinking.:biggrin:

    Probably why Drunken Maggot has gone for a professional liar (aka lawyer) as His spokeshole.:coolwink:
  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Leah Remini Finale


    I still think it could be a colorfully told "self-help" book that uses the Scn experience as a parable from which life lessons could be drawn.

    Once I even toyed around for a moment with the idea of writing such a book, reducing it to mini-chapters that each had a zen-simple principle. The concept being that we are all, to various degrees, victims of propaganda, lies, deception, obfuscation and unclarity in its myriad of forms. Some from other sources and some adopted or even self-generated.

    I think it's a fascinating possibility because so much of life turns out to be the exact opposite of what we at first believe or think we see.

    It would have to be interesting to Mike to muster the energy to think through and write such a book. The prospects of breaking it down into a tiny self-help book with precious few pages (like so many best-selling self-help book the past couple decades) is very inviting to writers who don't quite fancy spewing out hundreds of pages of "time, place, form & event".

    That reminds me. I just recalled the total insanity of sitting down to "write up overts and withholds". I don't know how many times I did that or was ordered to do that at Flag. And I did it. Self-Flag-ellation? LOL

    Well, one time I didn't do it. I realized that all that evil-confessing-ritual was only being done because the auditing tech 100% does not work. And, thus, PCs and Pre-OTs are (essentially, like small misbehaving children) "sent to their rooms to think about what they did".

    The difference being that small children can emerge from their rooms when they have decided to do better. And, Scientologists are only allowed out of their (mental) rooms when a majority of cult members sign off a Liability Formula where they have proven to delivered an effective blow to L. Ron Hubbard's enemies.

    Yes, it is that insane. lol
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    You are correct sir!

    When the going
    gets tough for OTs. . .
    The OTs get WOGs.


    screen capture from Monique Yingling's
    TR's video sent uplines to RTC for a pass.

    !!! PASS !!!
    TR 0.5
    (It's half-way between OT TR-0 and TR-L)

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  16. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster More Skeptical Than You

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    Yeah, and some "Hobson is a brainwashed zombie cultist" - worded in various different ways - is Veda's (and other's) standard insult that no moderator ever seems particularly concerned about. I don't see you complaining about that, FBM.

    Nevertheless, two wrongs don't make a right.

    Veda: Sorry, guy. Rather than insult your reading skills, I should have just pointed out your tendency to resort to the Straw Man Fallacy pretty much every time you reply to me. In other words, deliberate misrepresentation of whatever I write, rather than lack of comprehension of same.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
  17. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

    I checked every post on this thread from the O.P. onward finding no quotable mention of what you claim, therefore I submit it is you using a sour grapes straw man derailing the thread.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  18. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Re: Leah Remini Finale

  19. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    I tried to understand this thread, I really did. But one of the things I HATED about Scientology was the hierarchy, and that some people were more entitled than others. Whether it was where one was on the, 'org board,' or where was on the, 'grade chart,' it all boiled down to entitlement.

    Yes, Gerry had some fairly horrible things done to him. He absolutely didn't deserve any of this, but at the same time, if there is a general apology, such as Mike Rinder's recent one on his blog, my opinion is that he should consider that it includes him.

    Some of Mike's actions have directly impacted my life too....
  20. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I continue to hold out the hope that Season 2 of Scientology: the Aftermath will feature an episode with Leah, Mike, and Gerry. In Chilliwack, of course.