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Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
well.

lets see your ass up on stage?

Yup that was tough question the guy asked, and obviously a very hot seat Rinder
was squirming around on, note to Rinder start with the apology dude and never "Your Viewpoint"
We all know you had icewater for veins and a lump of coal where your heart should have been
and hopefully so do you now.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I did not intend to criticize Mike Rinder for what he is doing as a critic.

I am just tired of nobody tells the truht about Lisa
They could only say :: Hey listen, I prefer to not answer this question for now or I can't talk about it or whatever...

At least, Marty tells that she had been Csed to lose it (he blames DM for Csing and ordering what happened next )! :confused2:

To me it's like a worldwide window opened to know about Lisa's death - but closed before anything had been said. Just sad. :confused2:

Anyway... ''taboos''

May be one day... within the next trillions of years...when nobody dare to avoid the taboos about the lunatic sociopath policies and the sinister clown guru lost on target two ... :whistling:
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Thanks for the video. :thumbsup:

I did not expect them to cover every possible topic that all ex-Scientologists would want them to cover.
But I liked it anyway.

There is one item that is puzzling to me:
Paul says that he had got to OT3 without believing or encountering past lives in his auditing. :confused2:
Huh? Really? That is difficult for me to believe.
 

DeeAnna

Patron Meritorious
Re: Lisa MacPherson

I have, of course, read about what happened to her. But I don't really know the ins and outs of who was in charge of what at the time to know what the supposed role of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder was in the whole thing.

Anyone care to fill in those of us who were never in and don't know who purportedly did what?

And yes, I understand that some people were in positions where they did less than admirable things. Is this a case of things being done that were not only less than admirable, they were likely criminal? Or what?
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for the links!

Great interview!
A lot of enlightening take on many things, including how and why people get into this mindfuck - RInder explains it very well.

Unfortunately, as it's always the case, I run a deception when the taboo name is named... Lisa Mac Pherson - question adressed to Mike Rinder

1:09min to 1:12

Mike appears to me like doing figure skating with words like stupidity, should not have happened, should not have been allowed on the $cientology premises...

When will she deserved that her story will be told by the truth ????
(The blatant truth being the Introspection rundown abuses, deny of human rights, false emprisonement, drugs, isolation till a person lose it...)

Can someone esssplain me please, why him and Marty never tell the truth and take opportunity to talk about these middle age harmfull treatments of people having mental breeakdowns ??? Why???? Me don't understand! They never talk about introspection rundown, children abuse and RPF :duh:

It appears that SHE is the faulty one , as being in a place she shall have not been, and people who put her there were faulty :duh:
How about the lunatic malignant narcissist who ordered such treatment in his policies ???? It appears like a ''fault'' of the corporate Cherch allowing a mentally ill on it's premises :duh: instead of the peole collapsing on the premises while undergoing procedures. Not the same!

Why talking about the aunt (suit case pseudo-motives) instead of what happend with Lisa, The isolation, the legal case, the hidding of proofs, the manipulation????

Anyway, apart for being angry at that,
I find this interview very well done, helpfull, credible, professional
and thank you to the participants! :yes:

Mike Rinder's discomfort about Lisa McPherson was palpable.
Perhaps it can be attributed to as yet undisclosed information,
or possibly because it was, as Mike observed,
the death of a young woman who NEVER should have died.

Can there possibly be anything more difficult to face?
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Mike Rinder's discomfort about Lisa McPherson was palpable.
Perhaps it can be attributed to as yet undisclosed information,
or possibly because it was, as Mike observed,
the death of a young woman who NEVER should have died.

Can there possibly be anything more difficult to face?

To most of us ..yes! It's one of the most horrendous tragedy

For Mike I don't know! (Not knowing him makes it difficult to interpret , what appears to me as a lack of emotions and a cold answer)

like when he said:

'' Mac Pherson is a subject of great controversy... ''


It looks like a cold ''justice attorney'' exterior viewpoint answer!:unsure:
:confused2:
 

Chess

Patron with Honors
Yup that was tough question the guy asked, and obviously a very hot seat Rinder
was squirming around on, note to Rinder start with the apology dude and never "Your Viewpoint"
We all know you had icewater for veins and a lump of coal where your heart should have been
and hopefully so do you now.

Truth, honesty and the accountability of $cientology's actions are worlds apart and trying to get them even close means someone must take a fall. Like trying to force two north poles of a magnet together they repel each other.

I use to think there was a lot more to the tech than there was, but I see I was just lucky that what occurred to me was fluky and I was smart enough to walk away when I did, but still, they got 10 years of my life and huge amount of $. The "workability" of whatever tech exists is not workable no matter how many people get together and say it does. I'm not authoritarian or bully enough enough of person to say that you shouldn't do something because it didn't work for me. I'm a believer in what floats your boat - floats your boat. But Scientology is a failure out there in the public world, what further evidence is required?

Anyway, rant aside, one thing that sticks in my gut in response to the above is that Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were indeed swimming along with the flow of the abuse machine miscavige was developing with their blessing and lots of "yes sir, right away sir" while down the line lots of us poor saps who thought we were doing the right thing and "had Policy" on our side were repeatedly stabbed in the back, year after year.

Now that Rinder and Rathbun have put there hand up to come 'clean', what we see is that it is done in such a fashion so as to hide the truth of what they personally were involved with. So there's going to be holes and side stepping all through their "coming clean and down with miscavige's reign" ad nauseum. Let's face it, they WERE senior management for years and sucked up the air of authority it gave them, geezers Rathbun was given an extended holiday, all expenses paid on-board ship in the Caribbean to study what he liked. All the while knowing the saps down the line were being fucked over with lies and off policy actions were the order of the day. There must have been lots of distraction free environment in those Caribbean sunsets for the chosen few.

Scientology is in for "a reckoning" in the not to distant future The limelight of HBO's stuff and those other "never in" people who know all so much about the subject will not burn forever, but like the Nazi's after WW2 found out, some people chase the truth to the ends of the earth. I wouldn't feel so safe if I was in a managerial role in miscavige's reign. There's lots and lots of documentation floating around in the Scientology empire, just like the Prussian thoroughness did - it's easily turns into an Achilles heel.

Interesting times ahead.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Truth, honesty and the accountability of $cientology's actions are worlds apart and trying to get them even close means someone must take a fall. Like trying to force two north poles of a magnet together they repel each other.

I use to think there was a lot more to the tech than there was, but I see I was just lucky that what occurred to me was fluky and I was smart enough to walk away when I did, but still, they got 10 years of my life and huge amount of $. The "workability" of whatever tech exists is not workable no matter how many people get together and say it does. I'm not authoritarian or bully enough enough of person to say that you shouldn't do something because it didn't work for me. I'm a believer in what floats your boat - floats your boat. But Scientology is a failure out there in the public world, what further evidence is required?

Anyway, rant aside, one thing that sticks in my gut in response to the above is that Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were indeed swimming along with the flow of the abuse machine miscavige was developing with their blessing and lots of "yes sir, right away sir" while down the line lots of us poor saps who thought we were doing the right thing and "had Policy" on our side were repeatedly stabbed in the back, year after year.

Now that Rinder and Rathbun have put there hand up to come 'clean', what we see is that it is done in such a fashion so as to hide the truth of what they personally were involved with. So there's going to be holes and side stepping all through their "coming clean and down with miscavige's reign" ad nauseum. Let's face it, they WERE senior management for years and sucked up the air of authority it gave them, geezers Rathbun was given an extended holiday, all expenses paid on-board ship in the Caribbean to study what he liked. All the while knowing the saps down the line were being fucked over with lies and off policy actions were the order of the day. There must have been lots of distraction free environment in those Caribbean sunsets for the chosen few.

Scientology is in for "a reckoning" in the not to distant future The limelight of HBO's stuff and those other "never in" people who know all so much about the subject will not burn forever, but like the Nazi's after WW2 found out, some people chase the truth to the ends of the earth. I wouldn't feel so safe if I was in a managerial role in miscavige's reign. There's lots and lots of documentation floating around in the Scientology empire, just like the Prussian thoroughness did - it's easily turns into an Achilles heel.

Interesting times ahead.

In that video Rinder did admit to doing a lot of crap.
But he denied knowing much about the Lisa MacPherson travesty when it happened.
 

DoneDeal

Patron Meritorious
I did not intend to criticize Mike Rinder for what he is doing as a critic.

I am just tired of nobody tells the truht about Lisa
They could only say :: Hey listen, I prefer to not answer this question for now or I can't talk about it or whatever...

At least, Marty tells that she had been Csed to lose it (he blames DM for Csing and ordering what happened next )! :confused2:

To me it's like a worldwide window opened to know about Lisa's death - but closed before anything had been said. Just sad. :confused2:

Anyway... ''taboos''

May be one day... within the next trillions of years...when nobody dare to avoid the taboos about the lunatic sociopath policies and the sinister clown guru lost on target two ... :whistling:

I hear you, I guess. The worldwide window of Lisa's death is open. She died at the care and hands of people in a cult. It was kind of a cult orgasm. An eventual result of the relentless pushing for more of all of it.

You want the details? Think about your involvement in the cult and put it together. It's not very hard to see the details.

I think Mike Rinders doing a fabulous job in his part of the war against the cults survival. He lob's accurate mortar shells daily toward's them. And they even know where they are coming from.
 

Chess

Patron with Honors
In that video Rinder did admit to doing a lot of crap.
But he denied knowing much about the Lisa MacPherson travesty when it happened.

Yes indeed. That's the game in store in for us as observers. We'll never know the extent of the half truths, missing info and of course there'll be heaps of Sgt Shultz's famous line - "I know nothing!" or if they do say something if it's the whole truth anyway.

We all tell lies to some degree but it's the magnitude and immense (un)accountability of the crimes they were involved with in Scientology that make the difference. Of course many of them 'know nothing' in serious legal ramifications situations. (I hate to use Scientologese but here goes) Maybe there is a use for sec checks. Be an interesting motivator for some of those exec types who ordered/expected so many of us to have them. I'd write the questions and variations, even do the "not auditing you" bit too :yes:. Wana bet those pesky FNs become as scarce as rocking horse pooh? 3 swings and all...

Interesting time ahead.
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
thank you! very good interview ....

(only Mikes comment on LMP......??):confused2:

Yes, and Paul's comment that he NEVER audited (as a PC) so-called past lives even though he went up to OT 3.
That's difficult for me to believe.

Otherwise, I think the presentation could be very enlightening for people ignorant of CofS.
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, and Paul's comment that he NEVER audited (as a PC) so-called past lives even though he went up to OT 3.
That's difficult for me to believe.

Otherwise, I think the presentation could be very enlightening for people ignorant of CofS.
red is mine.
I can understand that.... he was famous, and there is explanation : that as $cio you can believe blah,blah,blah... but he did say LATER he did find it was a lie.....me thinking : it was everything for him,just to stay in and continue those money-bringing dinners at his house..... :coolwink:
 
red is mine.
I can understand that.... he was famous, and there is explanation : that as $cio you can believe blah,blah,blah... but he did say LATER he did find it was a lie.....me thinking : it was everything for him,just to stay in and continue those money-bringing dinners at his house..... :coolwink:

Yea, I agree that as a Celebrity with deep pockets and influence, he experienced a lot more tolerant and squishy Scientology than did most other people. They told him whatever would keep him donating! SOP...
 
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