...goes horribly wrong.
- Thread starter Veda
- Start date
Veda
Sponsor
Is Alanzo auditioning to become the new Bernie?
Some background:
Bernie is a fake ("reasonable") critic of Scientology who mostly criticizes critics of Scientology. The Bernie site is out of date and old.
Below is a link to the $cientology disinformation site, scientology myths, which, interestingly enough, links to the Bernie site.
Amongst other things, and like the Bernie site, scientology myths lies about, and continues to attack, Paulette Cooper. The first attempt at framing Cooper with making "bomb threats," in 1972 ('Operation Dynamite'), did succeed, resulting in her indictment by a Grand Jury. It came very close to destroying her life.
And, yet, scientology myths states:
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.scientologymyths.info/operation-freakout
It even links to the Bernie site, another Scientology cult site, but a "perimeter defense" operation, pretending to be a "reasonable critic" site. Notice the link is at the end of the piece under "One of them is here."
How cozy.
Is this pattern being repeated, with a slight variation, with Marty and Alanzo?
If I recall correctly, the Scientology group STAND has used some of Marty's recent videos.
Believe it or not, there are some honest and sincere (but gullible) Exes, and also some who are involved with "Independent Scientology," who regard Bernie as a useful informational source, and some who regard Alanzo, also, as a useful information source.
Although Alanzo may be too unstable to serve Scientology Inc. for any length of time in this capacity.
If someone is interested at all in Scientology, for any reason, it's not too outrageous that someone might be mildly curious about its recurring patterns.
Some background:
Bernie is a fake ("reasonable") critic of Scientology who mostly criticizes critics of Scientology. The Bernie site is out of date and old.
Below is a link to the $cientology disinformation site, scientology myths, which, interestingly enough, links to the Bernie site.
Amongst other things, and like the Bernie site, scientology myths lies about, and continues to attack, Paulette Cooper. The first attempt at framing Cooper with making "bomb threats," in 1972 ('Operation Dynamite'), did succeed, resulting in her indictment by a Grand Jury. It came very close to destroying her life.
And, yet, scientology myths states:
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.scientologymyths.info/operation-freakout
It even links to the Bernie site, another Scientology cult site, but a "perimeter defense" operation, pretending to be a "reasonable critic" site. Notice the link is at the end of the piece under "One of them is here."
How cozy.
Is this pattern being repeated, with a slight variation, with Marty and Alanzo?
If I recall correctly, the Scientology group STAND has used some of Marty's recent videos.
Believe it or not, there are some honest and sincere (but gullible) Exes, and also some who are involved with "Independent Scientology," who regard Bernie as a useful informational source, and some who regard Alanzo, also, as a useful information source.
Although Alanzo may be too unstable to serve Scientology Inc. for any length of time in this capacity.
If someone is interested at all in Scientology, for any reason, it's not too outrageous that someone might be mildly curious about its recurring patterns.
FoTi
Crusader
Let's see, now.......If Davie is spending $4 mil a month......how long will it take for COS to run out of money?
How much $ does the COS have?
Does he have enough whales to cover this expense without going broke eventually?
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
I think it's about time that we make a thread regarding the issue of opinions vs information(factual)
There are so much confusion on internet between information vs opinions and we must keep a critical mind about what we read... and process it for the value it has..Fact or opinion ???
There are tons of bloggers who entertain their audience with their opinions on a specific subject that are processed by their follower as truth, informations, facts...but they are no different than a collumnist writings in a newspaper , publishing his\her opinion son a subject.
Alanzos and Marty are those type of people..they provide people with their own opinion..
Isn't it funny when they ""guide'' their follower to keep being critical about how they can be misleaded by the anti-cult community...
For example:
1) is there really an anti-cult movement ??? Who leads it ??? Proof????
2) who are the members? proofs ??? (I never had been invited to join)
3) Are exes misleading people really ??? How ??? what factual information they share that is being false ????
Actually one example would be : ''Marty had been bought by DM...''
Okay, this is an opinion some people carry...is is a fact ? no since there are no proof of that!
Another example would be : ''Monique drop her case against CO$''
Is this an opinion ?? NO, it's a fact, proofs submitted on line and available.
How about Alanzo and followers saying : ''There is no brainwashing and people who say they have been brainswashed are victimizing themselve''
Fact or opinion ????
Opinion submitted as a fact: there are no proof that one group of people or even one single person ever said: ''I have been brainswashed...so I did this and that...''(it's not the usual cognition pattern of ex-scientologists)
Thus this assertion form Alanzo, submitted as a fact is false and wrong.
One can google '' I have been brainswashed by $cientology'' and nothing will come out
People must be very attentive when bloggers assert things...often there are no factual base..and it also happens as well in the ex community and with some critics.
They mostly are columnist.
Wikipedia.org:
Marty and Alanzo are columnist and must be addressed according to it, never as whistleblowers, truth tellers, light houses... Same with Mike Rinder when he post his point of view on some issues..it's only his point of view...Although, he also posts much valuable content like true stories and facts and updates about the CO$ which add to the informative value of his blog.
But, IMHO, our first hand experience, as a former $cientologist, including what we observed, been involved with, were aware of, experienced, learned, are more worhthy to us and has 1,000% more value than those blogger's opinion of what happened to us or not, and what this cult was and is about. Who needs those '' thinking gurus'' to make their own opinion ???
Some bloggers are contributing in bringing truths available, stories, facts,
while some others are just jabbering, gossiping, stirring it for a specific audience (usally very small , like few of us) , desperatly attempting to attract new followers...What are their informative content value ???
I think It may be factually said that it entertains a small group of people, including me.
(although when it gets dirty as it's getting..I give up)
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Gib
Crusader
I am an Autobot, as opposed to a Ronbot. My Optimus Prime is "no clears, no OT's", probably should add no religion. I seek out Decepticons. Their Supreme Leader is the dead L Ron Hubbard who ain't com'in back. Present leader is a half pint of a man who ain't coming back either.
Laughing.
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
My first hand experience didn't include any direct experience at the Gold Base and my knowledge of what was happening at Gold Base was pretty much zero during the time I was in. But I feel that there are highly credible witnesses to what DID occur there, and their accounts match up with others who were also there. So I am very confident that allegations made by these individuals are true.
Do their accounts add up to absolute proof? No, they don't. But the evidence is plenty strong enough to hold up in a court of law should these individuals give testimony.
Personally, I find the opinions of Mike Rinder and many other former INT Base execs valuable and worthwhile to hear about. YMMV, and that's fine. We all have to judge for ourselves what this cult was and is about. I don't just accept whatever he or others write at face value. Not unless compelling evidence is provided to back it up, but that's true for me when it comes to news sources as well. Just because a newspaper or TV news show states something I don't just accept it as a fact unless strong evidence is presented. Much of the news IS presented as factual when in actuality it is presented with extreme bias and is anything but factual.
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lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
I agree.
If you read, carefully, I was talking about thinking gurus. (not at all people testifying about their own experiences and observations)
Former Sear Org who had been at int base are among my favorite testimonies that helped me to understand the evil true nature of this cult.
I remain grateful for those ex and critics making those testimonies available.
Although, I still rely to my own observation, knowledge, and first hand experience for what I have been aware that happened in the Sea org. However, when I need to get more informations (about what I don't know), I watch or read testimonies of people who have been in, and that are usually released here and there on blogs, message boards. Another example would be auditing..I don't need any ''thinker'' to tell me what I ''should'' think of auditing did to me (Actually I know)...although I greatly appreciate to get testimonies of people about their own first hand experience...so it contributes that I can access a wider scale of experiences.
But Guru telling me how to think about the cult and pseudo-tech and what it does to a mind or not.. = NO
No mater who the person is , I rely to my own critical thinking...it has always been my best counsellor , and when I got in troubles, has been when I didn't relied on it and my intuition!
For example if Tony Ortega would tell we have all been brainswashed = I have zero interest in it. (opinion)
But, when Tony Ortega releases new stories of real people - I love it. It contributes to my knowledge about the cult issue.
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Gib
Crusader
opps, Autobot on again. Boy this is tiring repeating.I found the below to be utterly amusing
To answer Alanzo's question of "So tell me how anti-Scientologists are more moral, more civilized, better critical thinkers, and are more worthy of credibility than Scientologists are?"
Here we have a Decepticon statement, rhetoric really.
To answer the question is simply "no clears, no OT's, no religion". And that is why we have anti-Scientologists. The group of anti scientologists are composed of two groups really, I guess. One group is a group of wogs who didn't fall for Hubbard's rhetoric. Another group is ex members who fell for Hubbard's rhetoric and are now exposing it.
Hubbard's narrative or story was always a story, and he said a story always has to have a weenie, or something that everybody is after. And the story of dianetics and scientology is clear and then OT, the weenie. What a story,
only false, none exist.
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HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I found the below to be utterly amusing
So! That settles it! If you're FOR Scientology or you're AGAINST Scientology---either way you are a "corrosively tribal fanatic".
Life used to be so simple, where it was relatively easy and obvious what was right and wrong. But now, it's so impossible because whether you like something or don't like it, you're wrong. Please, God, we are wretched and confused, help us! Someone, please give us hope and guidance. . .
Alanzo, mankind turns its lonely eyes to you. Only you can tell us which are the right thoughts.
In a possibly related story, I was at the SuperBowl recently and I saw Alanzo there. Well, briefly anyways, because he was being rapidly escorted out in handcuffs by a dozen armed security guards. It seems he was wildly hollering, harassing & haranguing fans of both teams for being corrosive tribal fanatics.
After the game, I asked one of the security guards if he was taken to jail. He said: "Oh, no, we didn't take him to jail--we took him straight to a psychiatric hospital for a mandatory 72 hour hold so he can be evaluated."
.
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Jim Dandy
Patron with Honors
Oh that Lone Star is a real son-of-a-bitch. How dare he be so rough with Alanzo. He just wants to help us!!! To teach us that it's okay to embrace your inner culty!I found the below to be utterly amusing
I would never do such a thing to offend Al my pal. I am Jim Dandy and I am here to rescue!!
Gib
Crusader
Alanzo says his purpose is "Alanzo’s purpose is to provide the information necessary for people to make informed decisions about Scientology & Anti-Scientology."
My question to Alanzo is what is the purpose of scientology and what is the purpose of anti-scientology?
His very last line.
https://alanzosblog.com/alanzos-biography/
The purpose of scientology is to produce a OT.
The anti scientology purpose, you tell me Alanzo? What is it?
So I ask Alanzo, what information can you provide us with to make an informed decision about scientology?
My question to Alanzo is what is the purpose of scientology and what is the purpose of anti-scientology?
His very last line.
https://alanzosblog.com/alanzos-biography/
The purpose of scientology is to produce a OT.
The anti scientology purpose, you tell me Alanzo? What is it?
So I ask Alanzo, what information can you provide us with to make an informed decision about scientology?
Jim Dandy
Patron with Honors
To produce an OT. Not a OT. Let's get out our Scientology grammar book there pardner.
I would say that the purpose of an anti scientologist is to STOP anyone from becoming an OT. Yes! To make the world absolutely UNSAFE for Scientology. To help Xenu make this zone un-clearable!!
And of course to help the Psychs. That goes without saying....
Tanchi
Patron with Honors
It's good to hear he's going to get help. He can't have a large following, if he did, he would show comments. Can't get a response on twitter. Oh well, none of it's fresh. He's not a reporter, and even his stirred shit was someone elses shit first.
Jim Dandy
Patron with Honors
Help? Oh I'm not going to rescue him specifically. I am here to rescue in a broad, metaphorical sense. Moreover I mean to rescue this here message bored....I mean board.
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
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ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
. . .
Back in the old days -- pre-Internet -- no one would have noticed Alanzo or
cared about what 30-50,000 [crazy] thoughts he generates inside his head
each day. Back then, he would have been essentially a "zero" as far as the
world at large -- "the mest universe" -- was concerned.
Now with the Internet, he can take on a role that seems larger than life:
all-encompassing, all-important, and ubiquitous. (Just look at all the mind-
share and keystrokes he's generated just on this thread: >250 posts, LOL.)
The Internet has enabled Alanzo to achieve an OT EP, of sorts, as described
in 8-8008: the attainment of an infinity (larger than life) by increasing the
apparent zero of self (one’s own thoughts and opinions) into an apparent
infinity of importance and influence (larger than life via a blog with traffic).
In other words, he goes from an apparent "zero" to an apparent "infinity,"
in his own mind, utilizing a blog. (Isn't that one definition of OT?)
I have phrased this Internet phenomenon a little differently before: a nut
with a laptop and an Internet connection can capture more attention than
he deserves. The Internet makes tiny, fringe people and ideas seem more
mainstream and bigger than they actually are in real life. (One thing I really
hate about the Internet.)
Pre-Internet, he'd be a "zero" sitting in a basement or bedroom somewhere
and no one would know or care.
Don't know why I wrote this . . . I guess I'm under an "omnipresent spell"
of some sort.
Or maybe it's just a slow news day.
Back in the old days -- pre-Internet -- no one would have noticed Alanzo or
cared about what 30-50,000 [crazy] thoughts he generates inside his head
each day. Back then, he would have been essentially a "zero" as far as the
world at large -- "the mest universe" -- was concerned.
Now with the Internet, he can take on a role that seems larger than life:
all-encompassing, all-important, and ubiquitous. (Just look at all the mind-
share and keystrokes he's generated just on this thread: >250 posts, LOL.)
The Internet has enabled Alanzo to achieve an OT EP, of sorts, as described
in 8-8008: the attainment of an infinity (larger than life) by increasing the
apparent zero of self (one’s own thoughts and opinions) into an apparent
infinity of importance and influence (larger than life via a blog with traffic).
In other words, he goes from an apparent "zero" to an apparent "infinity,"
in his own mind, utilizing a blog. (Isn't that one definition of OT?)
I have phrased this Internet phenomenon a little differently before: a nut
with a laptop and an Internet connection can capture more attention than
he deserves. The Internet makes tiny, fringe people and ideas seem more
mainstream and bigger than they actually are in real life. (One thing I really
hate about the Internet.)
Pre-Internet, he'd be a "zero" sitting in a basement or bedroom somewhere
and no one would know or care.
Don't know why I wrote this . . . I guess I'm under an "omnipresent spell"
of some sort.
Or maybe it's just a slow news day.
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Here! Here! For the pre- internet days when you actually had to provide the snacks.....or the BEER.... in order to rope in that much attention.. . .
Pre-Internet, he'd be a "zero" sitting in a basement or bedroom somewhere
and no one would know or care.
Don't know why I wrote this . . . I guess I'm under an "omnipresent spell"
of some sort.
Or maybe it's just a slow news day.
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uncover
Gold Meritorious Patron
Except..... Alanzo. He is always RIGHT because he is a Scientologist, an Anti-Scientologists and an Anti-Anti-Scientologist (probably all at the same time*). For this reason he didn't include the Anti-Anti-Scientologists in his vomit:
* Professionals maybe would label this feature as Multiple Personality Disorder.
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