Golden Quotes from ESMB
- Thread starter SweetnessandLight
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Zen wisdom on the question of who is to blame for the church of scientology. . .
Zen wisdom on the question of who is to blame for the church of scientology. . .
Originally Posted by Panda Termint
We all helped build it, now we're helping to unbuild it.
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
From the thread: Re: A Brief Summary Of My Time Inside
"Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 :
One of the hardest things to shake off from Scientology is the idea that everything is your fault and that denying responsibility is the worst sin possible. But when I started seeing that extended to people born with disabilities or mental retardation, I started to see the fallacy of it all."
Gadfly wrote:
"Good point. I used to wonder about things like a 6-year old child raped and murdered. She "pulled it in"? Her "past life overts" set her up for this "motivator"?
Or, when observing some disabled youngster in a playground. How does one align and reconcile the nutty extreme Hubbard view of "total responsibility" with such things?
I tended to say to myself, even at my most Scientology-deluded state, "geez, there but for the grace of God go I". I remember talking to some dumbass, compassionately-challenged Scientologists about such things, and they said to me things like, "I never feel sorry for any of them, they get what they deserve, they pulled it in, I extend NO sympathy just as Ron teaches". What idiots! They would prefer to "blame" the tortured and murdered little girl rather than extend ANY compassion at all - because in Scientology many of the deluded followers confuse "compassion" with the BAD and UNDESIRABLE "sympathy" (Hubbard places "sympathy" LOW on the Tone Scale). Again, so many of these people are such mindless, over-indoctrinated morons who view and experience the world through their tiny little restrictive Scientology belief system.
Or, walk through a children cancer ward at any hospital. Young children with terminal diseases, who WILL DIE within the year - for sure. And, again, I am supposed to somehow understand that these kids "pulled in" these conditions?
Oh, yes Ron, "they are thetans who experienced everything before", and they ARE "fully responsible for getting cancer at age 4".
I think that a much BETTER "model" or "framework of understanding" is that things happen to each of us to TEACH US SOMETHING. We do seem to "attract" situations, people and experiences to us, but NOT out of this nutty Hubbard model of "overts, withholds, and motivators". Sure, no doubt, overts and withholds DO most certainly affect any person's psychology and behavior, in some ways, and to some degree, BUT these things are very FAR from the whole story.
And, while theoretically, if you ARE a "spiritual being" who has "created all that you see, hear and experience", at every point for yourself past, present, and future, and you MAY POSSIBLY truly be "responsible for it all", THAT realization must come "naturally". It takes life, and possibly even MANY lives to "grow up" and come to a true understanding of "responsibility" in the context of each of us as a "creative spiritual being" (made in the "image of God"). But, you won't get there by reading some books, or by accepting and believing some meager Scientology paradigm.
There are just so MANY MANY things out there, that if you take the time to LOOK, that these honest observations do NOT align with or allow to make sense much of the Hubbard Scientology model of all-that-is.
Also, I currently have the opinion that ANYTHING that interferes with and disables compassion, cannot be the "right way". A "right way" will encourage and bring about more compassion - Scientology fails entirely in THAT regard. "
Bravo Gadfly!!! This is Truth, to me!
"Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 :
One of the hardest things to shake off from Scientology is the idea that everything is your fault and that denying responsibility is the worst sin possible. But when I started seeing that extended to people born with disabilities or mental retardation, I started to see the fallacy of it all."
Gadfly wrote:
"Good point. I used to wonder about things like a 6-year old child raped and murdered. She "pulled it in"? Her "past life overts" set her up for this "motivator"?
Or, when observing some disabled youngster in a playground. How does one align and reconcile the nutty extreme Hubbard view of "total responsibility" with such things?
I tended to say to myself, even at my most Scientology-deluded state, "geez, there but for the grace of God go I". I remember talking to some dumbass, compassionately-challenged Scientologists about such things, and they said to me things like, "I never feel sorry for any of them, they get what they deserve, they pulled it in, I extend NO sympathy just as Ron teaches". What idiots! They would prefer to "blame" the tortured and murdered little girl rather than extend ANY compassion at all - because in Scientology many of the deluded followers confuse "compassion" with the BAD and UNDESIRABLE "sympathy" (Hubbard places "sympathy" LOW on the Tone Scale). Again, so many of these people are such mindless, over-indoctrinated morons who view and experience the world through their tiny little restrictive Scientology belief system.
Or, walk through a children cancer ward at any hospital. Young children with terminal diseases, who WILL DIE within the year - for sure. And, again, I am supposed to somehow understand that these kids "pulled in" these conditions?
Oh, yes Ron, "they are thetans who experienced everything before", and they ARE "fully responsible for getting cancer at age 4".
I think that a much BETTER "model" or "framework of understanding" is that things happen to each of us to TEACH US SOMETHING. We do seem to "attract" situations, people and experiences to us, but NOT out of this nutty Hubbard model of "overts, withholds, and motivators". Sure, no doubt, overts and withholds DO most certainly affect any person's psychology and behavior, in some ways, and to some degree, BUT these things are very FAR from the whole story.
And, while theoretically, if you ARE a "spiritual being" who has "created all that you see, hear and experience", at every point for yourself past, present, and future, and you MAY POSSIBLY truly be "responsible for it all", THAT realization must come "naturally". It takes life, and possibly even MANY lives to "grow up" and come to a true understanding of "responsibility" in the context of each of us as a "creative spiritual being" (made in the "image of God"). But, you won't get there by reading some books, or by accepting and believing some meager Scientology paradigm.
There are just so MANY MANY things out there, that if you take the time to LOOK, that these honest observations do NOT align with or allow to make sense much of the Hubbard Scientology model of all-that-is.
Also, I currently have the opinion that ANYTHING that interferes with and disables compassion, cannot be the "right way". A "right way" will encourage and bring about more compassion - Scientology fails entirely in THAT regard. "
Bravo Gadfly!!! This is Truth, to me!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
In response to Fella asking if Ron was "normal", Infinite wrote this:
"
Thank you very much for pulling all that information together...We should print up brochures to pass out around Orgs!
"
Thank you very much for pulling all that information together...We should print up brochures to pass out around Orgs!
Sandie
Patron with Honors
From the thread: Re: A Brief Summary Of My Time Inside
"Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 :
One of the hardest things to shake off from Scientology is the idea that everything is your fault and that denying responsibility is the worst sin possible. But when I started seeing that extended to people born with disabilities or mental retardation, I started to see the fallacy of it all."
Gadfly wrote:
"Good point. I used to wonder about things like a 6-year old child raped and murdered. She "pulled it in"? Her "past life overts" set her up for this "motivator"?
Or, when observing some disabled youngster in a playground. How does one align and reconcile the nutty extreme Hubbard view of "total responsibility" with such things?
I tended to say to myself, even at my most Scientology-deluded state, "geez, there but for the grace of God go I". I remember talking to some dumbass, compassionately-challenged Scientologists about such things, and they said to me things like, "I never feel sorry for any of them, they get what they deserve, they pulled it in, I extend NO sympathy just as Ron teaches". What idiots! They would prefer to "blame" the tortured and murdered little girl rather than extend ANY compassion at all - because in Scientology many of the deluded followers confuse "compassion" with the BAD and UNDESIRABLE "sympathy" (Hubbard places "sympathy" LOW on the Tone Scale). Again, so many of these people are such mindless, over-indoctrinated morons who view and experience the world through their tiny little restrictive Scientology belief system.
Or, walk through a children cancer ward at any hospital. Young children with terminal diseases, who WILL DIE within the year - for sure. And, again, I am supposed to somehow understand that these kids "pulled in" these conditions?
Oh, yes Ron, "they are thetans who experienced everything before", and they ARE "fully responsible for getting cancer at age 4".
I think that a much BETTER "model" or "framework of understanding" is that things happen to each of us to TEACH US SOMETHING. We do seem to "attract" situations, people and experiences to us, but NOT out of this nutty Hubbard model of "overts, withholds, and motivators". Sure, no doubt, overts and withholds DO most certainly affect any person's psychology and behavior, in some ways, and to some degree, BUT these things are very FAR from the whole story.
And, while theoretically, if you ARE a "spiritual being" who has "created all that you see, hear and experience", at every point for yourself past, present, and future, and you MAY POSSIBLY truly be "responsible for it all", THAT realization must come "naturally". It takes life, and possibly even MANY lives to "grow up" and come to a true understanding of "responsibility" in the context of each of us as a "creative spiritual being" (made in the "image of God"). But, you won't get there by reading some books, or by accepting and believing some meager Scientology paradigm.
There are just so MANY MANY things out there, that if you take the time to LOOK, that these honest observations do NOT align with or allow to make sense much of the Hubbard Scientology model of all-that-is.
Also, I currently have the opinion that ANYTHING that interferes with and disables compassion, cannot be the "right way". A "right way" will encourage and bring about more compassion - Scientology fails entirely in THAT regard. "
Bravo Gadfly!!! This is Truth, to me!
Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Originally Posted by TG1:
"OK, I don't have time to write this -- or do a good job with this. But in response to some who've wondered why the cult's counsel is introducing such cult-damaging topics into the record and why they're so flat-footed about, e.g., what is or isn't or sometimes is and sometimes isn't religious doctrine vs. legal agreements, the deal is this:
1. This case is NOT TYPICAL of other cult-initiated litigation that is so freaking publicly displayed like this one is -- tweeted and blogged and photographed all over the freaking Internet.
2. This case was a hurry-up, get-revenge, hire local lawyers who've never worked for us before who, despite some who've insisted to the contrary here, are really NOT very sophisticated lawyers on issues like the ones litigated here. They know San Antonio. They know Texas. They know business contracts. But they don't have a clue about what they're dealing with here, which is organized crime and a looney-tunes psychopath "religious" cult leader, not to mention cult followers who are nearly as looney-tunes as their leader, after being treated for decades the way Debbie has described on the stand.
3. I will guaran-goddamn-tee you the cult's lawyers are hearing some of Debbie's stories for the first time.
4. And I will double-guaran-goddamn-tee you they have gone back to the office tonight, in the quiet of their conference room with cold pizza littered all over the room, and they're looking at each other and saying: "What the hell have we gotten ourselves into! Who brought this freaking client into our firm!?"
I have no idea how the judge will rule on all of this. At this point, in the bigger scheme of things, it sorta doesn't matter. Debbie has stood up on the world stage and said out loud the things that must NEVER be said out loud. She has told the truth.
And the truth will bury the Church of Scientology. And not a moment too soon. The Sea Org under David Miscavige's reign is an organization of torture -- mental, social, familial, financial, spiritual, religious, sexual and eventually physical.
Anyone reading this who still is a supporting, card-carrying member of the Church of Scientology must, I repeat MUST, stand up and acknowledge the truth of what Debbie Cook says.
She is speaking the truth.
If you deny this is the truth, then YOU ARE A LIAR. YOU ARE IN THE COMPANY OF AND SUPPORTING A MISOGYNISTIC, TORTUROUS PSYCHOPATH.
For many others, this crap stopped long ago, because they refused to allow it to happen to them any longer and/or refused to support it anymore. And now it needs to stop happening to you and stop being supported by you.
Goddamnit!
TG1"
Tee Gee, you're going on "Golden Quotes"!
"OK, I don't have time to write this -- or do a good job with this. But in response to some who've wondered why the cult's counsel is introducing such cult-damaging topics into the record and why they're so flat-footed about, e.g., what is or isn't or sometimes is and sometimes isn't religious doctrine vs. legal agreements, the deal is this:
1. This case is NOT TYPICAL of other cult-initiated litigation that is so freaking publicly displayed like this one is -- tweeted and blogged and photographed all over the freaking Internet.
2. This case was a hurry-up, get-revenge, hire local lawyers who've never worked for us before who, despite some who've insisted to the contrary here, are really NOT very sophisticated lawyers on issues like the ones litigated here. They know San Antonio. They know Texas. They know business contracts. But they don't have a clue about what they're dealing with here, which is organized crime and a looney-tunes psychopath "religious" cult leader, not to mention cult followers who are nearly as looney-tunes as their leader, after being treated for decades the way Debbie has described on the stand.
3. I will guaran-goddamn-tee you the cult's lawyers are hearing some of Debbie's stories for the first time.
4. And I will double-guaran-goddamn-tee you they have gone back to the office tonight, in the quiet of their conference room with cold pizza littered all over the room, and they're looking at each other and saying: "What the hell have we gotten ourselves into! Who brought this freaking client into our firm!?"
I have no idea how the judge will rule on all of this. At this point, in the bigger scheme of things, it sorta doesn't matter. Debbie has stood up on the world stage and said out loud the things that must NEVER be said out loud. She has told the truth.
And the truth will bury the Church of Scientology. And not a moment too soon. The Sea Org under David Miscavige's reign is an organization of torture -- mental, social, familial, financial, spiritual, religious, sexual and eventually physical.
Anyone reading this who still is a supporting, card-carrying member of the Church of Scientology must, I repeat MUST, stand up and acknowledge the truth of what Debbie Cook says.
She is speaking the truth.
If you deny this is the truth, then YOU ARE A LIAR. YOU ARE IN THE COMPANY OF AND SUPPORTING A MISOGYNISTIC, TORTUROUS PSYCHOPATH.
For many others, this crap stopped long ago, because they refused to allow it to happen to them any longer and/or refused to support it anymore. And now it needs to stop happening to you and stop being supported by you.
Goddamnit!
TG1"
Tee Gee, you're going on "Golden Quotes"!
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
LA SCN posted this on "Scientology makes the lame walk..according to Debbie Cook's new letter" it's post #120:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...k-s-new-letter&p=661951&viewfull=1#post661951
"Point well stated and well taken.
We do have some fun here on ESMB and that's what I really like about it - it IS irreverent - not the staid, hip hip hoorah, suffocating, propitiative atmosphere that is Martyland.
But the posters, ourselves included, have paid the price for having been part of the cult and if we don't have a laugh, we may cry.
Personally I spent the prime of my productive years as low paid staff and later as financially overwhumped public just barely wising up in time to have a semblance of a life.
Someone like Debbie Cook appears out of the mist and we think throws us a lifesaver in the form of hope that the cult may be taken down, saving us from the sea of misdirection, misconception, untruth and lies we try to warn others of.
Only to find out she is still a true believer. She is legally blind and mentally hobbled like a pack mule to the hubbard camp and cannot leave its narrow mental confines to join the group of honest human beings trying to make their way through a truthful life.
She can't see that with the Lisa M conspiracy she has committed crime that there is no justification for.
That she has done harm to her fellow parishioners through application of hubbardism.
That she supports a man who cast aside his first son and disowned him along with his first wife.
A man whose second son committed suicide rather than live under the thumb of a domineering father.
A man seething with undisclosed and unadmitted crimes to such extent that he launched Operation Snow White to find out if the government knew about him yet and if so how much.
A man run out of England, South Africa, Greece and Morocco for his behavior, a 'man without a country' who formed the Sea Org to protect himself from arrest by any number of agencies.
A man who hid out on the run like a common criminal while leaving his third wife to do time for his crime.
A man who cut and ran at the end, killing his creation and taking as much loot as he could, leaving what remained to the charge of a dangerous psychopath.
She can't see that hubbardism is not saving man but spearheading his descent into the Hell of a 1984 one worldism, doublethink and a true kicked in the head society.
Smashing his name into history indeed.
And Debbie has bought it hook,line and sinker and would continue the carnage."
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...k-s-new-letter&p=661951&viewfull=1#post661951
"Point well stated and well taken.
We do have some fun here on ESMB and that's what I really like about it - it IS irreverent - not the staid, hip hip hoorah, suffocating, propitiative atmosphere that is Martyland.
But the posters, ourselves included, have paid the price for having been part of the cult and if we don't have a laugh, we may cry.
Personally I spent the prime of my productive years as low paid staff and later as financially overwhumped public just barely wising up in time to have a semblance of a life.
Someone like Debbie Cook appears out of the mist and we think throws us a lifesaver in the form of hope that the cult may be taken down, saving us from the sea of misdirection, misconception, untruth and lies we try to warn others of.
Only to find out she is still a true believer. She is legally blind and mentally hobbled like a pack mule to the hubbard camp and cannot leave its narrow mental confines to join the group of honest human beings trying to make their way through a truthful life.
She can't see that with the Lisa M conspiracy she has committed crime that there is no justification for.
That she has done harm to her fellow parishioners through application of hubbardism.
That she supports a man who cast aside his first son and disowned him along with his first wife.
A man whose second son committed suicide rather than live under the thumb of a domineering father.
A man seething with undisclosed and unadmitted crimes to such extent that he launched Operation Snow White to find out if the government knew about him yet and if so how much.
A man run out of England, South Africa, Greece and Morocco for his behavior, a 'man without a country' who formed the Sea Org to protect himself from arrest by any number of agencies.
A man who hid out on the run like a common criminal while leaving his third wife to do time for his crime.
A man who cut and ran at the end, killing his creation and taking as much loot as he could, leaving what remained to the charge of a dangerous psychopath.
She can't see that hubbardism is not saving man but spearheading his descent into the Hell of a 1984 one worldism, doublethink and a true kicked in the head society.
Smashing his name into history indeed.
And Debbie has bought it hook,line and sinker and would continue the carnage."
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Shades of understanding . . .
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I paused just now to remember what this thread is about and quickly recalled the "I don't believe anything" lunacy of Rathbun when questioned about the BT-infested OT levels.
Again, that videotape of Marty/Mike fishing popped back into my mind where Marty sort of unexpectedly "flips" from being a good-ole-boy-fisherman to spewing his energized realization that COB is stuck in a particular wholetrack implant. It was an uncomfortable moment, even for Mike Rinder, who tried to ease the cringe by quickly saying "Whatever..." But the moment lingered on as testimony that Rathbun was fully caught up in Hubbard's unnervingly dorky cosmology.
In watching Rathbun so easily "go in session" and begin running his "itsa" to cog and VGI's--exactly as if he was in a session--the word LIAR did not seem to fit as well as it normally does when I hear a Scientologist launch into reciting scriptural revelations. Instead, a different word came to mind...
FILTERING.
As in, wearing sunglasses to filter out harsh rays of the sun.
It occurred to me that Marty Rathbun--or any other Scientologist for that matter--is indoctrinated by filters. At first Hubbard gives new Scientologists a pair of sunglasses that is barely tinted (or shall we say tainted) with Hubbard's view of the world. It colors the new Scientologists way of seeing the world, at first in a subtle and unimportant way. It might only have a shading index of 0.001 where the Scientologist sees the world as a place where the mind is viewed (Dianetics) as something that can cause unwanted physical sensations, emotions or content that holds an individual back from success and happiness.
Each day the Scientologist reports in, they are fitted with the next, almost indiscernibly darker shade of sunglasses. Another part of life is "filtered" out, rendering one more color to register as "neutral". Bright green becomes forest green becomes tea green....
Over time, the vibrancy of color is reduced and neutralized and the Scientologist's ideas about life very subtly evolve into a muted pattern of black and white.
Normal thinking gets filtered out and Hubbard "fills the vacuum" with his own thoughts.
A perfectly normal individual, over time, begins to talk about wholetrack implants as if it was as normal as shaking hands to greet someone.
And one day, that Scientologist opens their mouth and the most alarmingly bizarre things begin to pour out of it such as "Who's Xenu? You must be confusing Ron's sci-fi writing with Scientology" and "I don't believe anything!" and "A person who doesn't believe in Christ can still be a Christian."
This method of indoctrination-by-gradual-erosion-of-normal-perception is another way of understanding the "hypnotic state" of mind that so many Scientologists arrive at. It's not so much "hypnotizing" a person as it is to give them a cool pair of sunglasses to wear that actually makes life less glary and harsh.
The proverbial rise-colored glasses. But the twist here is that Scientology doesn't just hand over a pair of obviously tinted shades, they do it very subtly over time. The process is not dissimilar to the eye's pupils dilating and adjusting to bright lights. The size of the pupil "stops down" until it is small and only lets a limited quantity of light through.
People who have been deprived of light over long periods of time actually are painfully blinded if they simply walk outdoors during daylight. Their system cannot tolerate even small intensities of light and they instinctively close & cover their eyes when "attacked" by normal illumination. So it is that Scientologists cover their eyes and perceive themselves as being "attacked" when a non-Scientologists tries to shed some light on the truth about Hubbard and Scientology.
Perhaps it is this knee-jerk reaction to shield all light that makes Scientologists answer questions about Xenu in such a "shady" way.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: The Scandalous Brunch Photos That Scientology Doesn’t Want You To See
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http://publicroad.wordpress.com/201...otos-that-scientology-doesnt-want-you-to-see/
A few weeks ago, I visited L.A. to hang out with a close friend and escape the New Hampshire winter, which has actually been unsettlingly mild so far, but never mind. Along with window shopping, peeping at Katherine Heigl as we ate sushi, and driving to the Beverly Hilton the night Whitney Houston died — LOS ANGELES, YOU GUYS — we decided to have brunch at the Church of Scientology International Celebrity Centre. You can tell it’s “international” because of the ultra-sophisticated spelling of the word “center.”
Yes, the Church of Scientology serves a weekend brunch buffet for about $12 at the Renaissance Restaurant, inside the Manor Hotel, also run by the church. The Manor Hotel is the former Chateau Elysee, an apartment complex once home to stars including Bette Davis and Humphrey Bogart; the church bought it in 1973. The restaurant, like certain areas of the Celebrity Center Centre, is open to the public. According to his own blog, an Austrian man named Helmut Flasch renamed and refurbished the restaurant at the request of some Scientologists he met while working the Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel. “All the above happened while NOT being a Scientologist, but hanging out at the Manor Hotel 24/7 got me interested in Scientology,” he writes, somewhat worryingly to a woman who recently hung out at the Manor Hotel. “This is a method of recruiting which L Ron Hubbard had talked about that will inevitably lead into people becoming Scientologists without trying.” Oh dear.
Nonetheless, my friend E. and I were curious, so we decided to check it out. I have a fondness for American religious oddities, and besides, brunch is the best. So we bought a Sunday New York Times and drove to Hollywood, where dreams of coffee and breakfast sausage come true.
Despite the photos of a jam-packed patio on the church’s website, there were only a few other occupied tables when we arrived around noon on a Sunday. A friendly Russian (?) woman led us to our seats outside and asked if we wanted coffee. We traipsed inside to help ourselves to the buffet, which was exactly what you’d expect of a nice-but-not-too-nice hotel: Salad, pancakes, eggs, bacon, and lunch foods like crepes and lasagna, all having sat in their warming dishes for several hours. Like all mediocre restaurants everywhere, the Renaissance serves fruit salad heavy on the cantaloupe. But it was a decent spread, and cheap, and we happily loaded up our plates. I texted my husband that any religion with deviled eggs this good can’t be all bad.
As we were eating, a few little girls ran happily around the courtyard. The sun shone. A Church of Scientology staffer with an earpiece circled the perimeter, talking intensely on the phone. After finishing our meals and making a dent in the paper, E. and I got up to stroll around the beautiful open courtyard. We checked out a little waterfall and a babbling brook lined with flowers. It only felt natural to snap a few iPhone photos, which you see here.
After I took a couple of pictures, the air next to the waterfall shimmered for a moment and a blond man with a beard materialized, Star Trek-style. At least that’s what it seemed like to E. and me as we made frantic eye contact. “Hi!” the man said. “You know, we actually don’t allow photography here, because it’s a hotel, and the Celebrity Centre and all.” I looked around to see which celebrities I might have accidentally photographed — did I just have brunch with Tom Cruise? Are the ghosts of Davis and Bogart still hanging around? — but all I saw was a Midwestern-looking family eating eggs.
“Oh, sorry,” I said, and went to slip my phone back into my bag. “Actually, could I just take a look at the photos you took?” the man said. I don’t know what possessed me to say “Uh, sure,” to this crazy request, but the man had an earpiece and a precisely trimmed beard, I was on private property run by a violent religious organization, and my photos were genuinely innocuous. A stronger, more quick-thinking person would have said, “Sorry, no,” out of sheer curiosity, but alas. You go to brunch at the Celebrity Centre with the integrity you have, not the integrity you might want or wish to have at a later time.
I held up the phone and flicked through all five photos. “Gee, that’s a great shot,” the man said. “Amazing what these things can do!” I at least had enough self-respect to glare at him. “Ok, yes, these are all fine,” he said eventually. That’s when I truly felt like a patsy — when I understood that I was giving him the right to refuse or accept the very existence of my harmless, crappy iPhone photos. Meanwhile, the guy cheerfully introduced himself. The guy’s name was Guy. He asked our names, and asked if this was our first time here, and what brought us here. We answered vaguely but politely and scurried away. As we left the courtyard, we heard another earpieced guard quizzing a little boy about whether he’d been climbing on a fire escape, which we had totally seen him do. He said no, though. Brave, brave boy.
From there, E. and I went inside to check out L. Ron Hubbard’s office, copies of which exist to honor him in every Scientology Centre. We also explored the bookstore, which was a creepy nightmare all to itself. I bought an e-meter for $5,400, and followed the suggestion of a banner inviting me to complete my L. Ron Hubbard book collection in honor of the great one’s birthday.
Just kidding! Instead I nodded politely as the bookstore clerk, a shy Eastern European woman, told an excruciatingly delusional story about how Scientology single-handedly turned around the crime rate in Colombia. Then I waited patiently as she and her sweet coworker ineptly tried to get the sound to work on the TV so they could show E. and me a promotional video. Finally, I watched in horror as a male employee stormed in from nowhere and bullied them about what they were trying to do. “But which video are you trying to play? Why can’t you just explain to me exactly what you’ve been trying to do?”
This place probably made me too paranoid, but how did that guy know to storm in, since the bookstore is in a tiny windowless room? And why was he such a total jackass?
Afterwards we agreed to go on a tour, but instead we wound up stuck in a room watching videos with another super-friendly hawk-eyed employee who asked us for our names, our occupations, and what exactly we had heard about Scientology. “Oh, you know, I don’t know too much about it,” I said resisting the urge to ask this young woman if she read Lawrence Wright’s epic, damning, and fascinating piece of investigative journalism on the church last year. The first video showed us how to cure physical pain by reenacting the moment of injury and sort of hovering our hands over it or something. At another point, a boy becomes violently ill after eating some deviled eggs, which I took to be some sort of sign since I had just happily downed three Scientology-made deviled eggs and loved every bite. Eventually we got so bored we decided to go, a decision made completely in the language of desperate eye contact that we had perfected over the past few hours. ”REMEMBER, WE HAVE GO MEET RACHEL AT 3,” E. stage-whispered to me. I grabbed a flier advertising a special acting seminar with Erika Christensen on the way out.
To be honest, I could’ve stayed all day, but my heightened powers of eye contact were telling me that E. wasn’t that into the idea of spending eight hours listening to aspiring actors teach us how to cure ourselves of food poisoning with the power of positive thinking. She’s kind of an oddball like that.
Anyway, that was that. This was by far the creepiest experience with religion I’ve ever had in my life. And did I mention I’ve been to a basement museum devoted to nun dolls?
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
G
Gottabrain
Guest
Terrific Quote from Type4 PTS:
For me, acknowledging the truth of some of Hubbard's remarks and acknowledging his goodness for making those remarks would be akin to a starving rat praising the trapper who put out his very favorite food just in time to keep him from starving to death.
Somehow the rat managed to dine on his favorite food and at the same time avoid the poison intended for him. And for the rest of his existence he remains grateful to the trapper.
But if our rat looked a little closer he might see that the trapper didn't have such good intentions towards him after all.
There is a abundance of evidence that the conman who set up shop selling Total Freedom didn't really intend for us to ever obtain it. Just because you and some others may have the ability to extract some cheese from the trap without getting poisoned or getting your neck snapped, not everybody does.
And by acknowledging Hubbard as a source of truth and goodness you might be helping to create curiosity about that cheese for another person, but instead of tasting the cheese it doesn't end so well for him, like many of us here on the board.
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I have re-read this post by HelluvaHoax! several times in the past few days, and I still marvel at it.
Even though HelluvaHoax! wrote it to help a specific person in their thread, I thought it deserved a place here - as it applies so widely to many people:
Even though HelluvaHoax! wrote it to help a specific person in their thread, I thought it deserved a place here - as it applies so widely to many people:
Panda Termint
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Yes! That is the best advice I've seen regarding that particular situation. 
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From: JustMe 4/5/12
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26818-Was-Hubbard-Prone-to-Hallucinations
Re: Was Hubbard Prone to Hallucinations?
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26818-Was-Hubbard-Prone-to-Hallucinations
Re: Was Hubbard Prone to Hallucinations?
Whatever the reason(s), Hubbard had a serious problem with the truth and, IMO, with general competency.
Over an eight year time span I suppose I got maybe 250 or so orders directly from him. Receiving and complying with orders from Hubbard taught me a few things, many I did not truly understand until years after I was out.
One thing is how easily he lied. Either he was just a bold faced liar, lying for personal gain at the expense of others, or he was so incompetent that he did not even know he was lying. Or, something else I cannot now imagine.
He also was often very cruel including gross acts of cruelty against those who had dedicated their very lives to support him and scientology. And, IMO his orders often betrayed the fact that he was incompetent.
A few examples:
(i) he told Scientologists in broad issues that he took no money from Scientology, that it was in effect a labor of love. Truth be told he took many tens of millions of dollars from Scientology and demanded more and more constantly. To the public he was a saint, one who was not in it for the money. But in his most private communications with some of those at the very top he accepted no excuses for not getting his take of the proceeds of organized Scientology regularly. And he often saw as enemies any who he felt stood in the way of him and his money;
(ii) he ordered those at the very top in the Watchdog Committee to get every possible dime they could out of any and all possible organizations of the scientology empire. He said to take the money from local orgs before they could spend it. It did not matter that the orgs were almost always left with insufficient money to feed their staffs, to give them proper medical care or to support their own children. He wanted to take the money out of their control and to end up getting his share;
(iii) when cases were lost and money had to be paid to victims of scientology Hubbard was outraged. And it was not because there were victims but rather because money had to be paid out. He would order new, deceptive ways to hide the money through corporate/contractual shell games so none of it could be gotten through litigation should scientology lose instead of focusing on why there were victims in the first place. Case in point is the Christofferson case and Hubbard's order to Sue Mithoff in 1979 re the creation of Scientology Missions International and why it was needed;
(iv) In 1982/1983 Hubbard blew up when he found out that so many books not written by him were sold on org lines and even in some cases by the publications organizations themselves. He demanded heads on pikes to find those who were trying to destroy him and scientology pushing his policy "Vital Data On Promotion" and the part of it that stressed no books by others. While external influence missions were sent all around the world to find and punish all responsible for this, and all who supported it, what he never would mention was that it was he himself who approved many of those books.
For example, Hubbard told me that he had never approved a Ruth Minshull book and only ever had seen one of them - "Miracles for Breakfast". Yet I later found out and confirmed that not only did he see others of her books but he actually approved them in writing for distribution on org lines in exchange for a piece of the action. I later got the approvals from Ruth herself and confirmed from a key messenger that she actually witnessed Hubbard signing the approvals;
(v) in the same time period as in "iv" above Hubbard was constantly demanding that external influences be found as it must be them that was holding scientology down. Scientologists around the world, most of them staff, were horribly abused, gang bang sec checks became rampant, declares reached all time highs and countless families were destroyed through disconnection simply because Hubbard's saw enemies in his most loyal and dedicated followers when he was not getting his way;
(vi) Hubbard often gave horribly stupid orders into the corporate area and there were often people who had to constantly figure out how to "make him feel right" and not comply with the orders without having him go ballistic. One example was Hubbard ordering the selling of minister status for big bucks so that the people getting them could get all sorts of tax benefits and related perks (such as tax deductions for their home mortgages, etc.). Great effort had to be made to not comply and yet make it look like one was complying so as not to incur his wrath.
There are countless examples of these sort of things.
I cannot say with certainty what drove a man to do all this but I can say that the fraud, cruelty and betrayal spanned decades and was not just something found in his last few years of almost complete mental breakdown.
It is my belief that the insane paranoia and fear that Hubbard constantly showed was woven throughout scientology policy. Such things as the RPF, heavy ethics for counter and other intentions (to his own), the cruelty of disconnection and so much more all to "protect" a tech he called priceless but was rather valueless to most who tried it.
This is also reflected in his crazy ramblings were he saw enemies everywhere and demanded the destruction of those who opposed his will.
And, I submit that the entire corporate structure of organized scientology, all the lies that make up the foundation of that house of cards as well as the religious cloaking that helps hold it in place is nothing more than a reflection of that same, insane paranoia of Hubbard as he demanded control of his little empire while cowardly hiding behind its myriad veils so as not to be held liable for that of which he was completely liable.
I submit that Hubbard had no really great accomplishments. The bigger accomplishments (such as they were) in the history of organized scientology were IMO not achieved by Hubbard. Rather they were achieved by loving, dedicated and, yes, misled people who themselves put it all on the line to dedicate themselves and their lives to the following of a man who would ultimately betray them.
I find it difficult to find any real hate in my heart for this but there is much sadness in there. A sadness for all the good souls who cared and who tried to follow a dream and were betrayed.
Did Hubbard really think he would "clear the planet" and that scientology should really expand well beyond his own life? I don't know for sure but I cannot get this troubling thought out of my mind: I once went to the leaders of the Watchdog Committee and the then leader of RTC before Miscavige took over. I tried to reconcile the constant demands for money every week. I asked how will we clear the rest of the planet when such a large portion of it could not afford scientology services.
All I got back were blank stares.
And I had a sad
Over an eight year time span I suppose I got maybe 250 or so orders directly from him. Receiving and complying with orders from Hubbard taught me a few things, many I did not truly understand until years after I was out.
One thing is how easily he lied. Either he was just a bold faced liar, lying for personal gain at the expense of others, or he was so incompetent that he did not even know he was lying. Or, something else I cannot now imagine.
He also was often very cruel including gross acts of cruelty against those who had dedicated their very lives to support him and scientology. And, IMO his orders often betrayed the fact that he was incompetent.
A few examples:
(i) he told Scientologists in broad issues that he took no money from Scientology, that it was in effect a labor of love. Truth be told he took many tens of millions of dollars from Scientology and demanded more and more constantly. To the public he was a saint, one who was not in it for the money. But in his most private communications with some of those at the very top he accepted no excuses for not getting his take of the proceeds of organized Scientology regularly. And he often saw as enemies any who he felt stood in the way of him and his money;
(ii) he ordered those at the very top in the Watchdog Committee to get every possible dime they could out of any and all possible organizations of the scientology empire. He said to take the money from local orgs before they could spend it. It did not matter that the orgs were almost always left with insufficient money to feed their staffs, to give them proper medical care or to support their own children. He wanted to take the money out of their control and to end up getting his share;
(iii) when cases were lost and money had to be paid to victims of scientology Hubbard was outraged. And it was not because there were victims but rather because money had to be paid out. He would order new, deceptive ways to hide the money through corporate/contractual shell games so none of it could be gotten through litigation should scientology lose instead of focusing on why there were victims in the first place. Case in point is the Christofferson case and Hubbard's order to Sue Mithoff in 1979 re the creation of Scientology Missions International and why it was needed;
(iv) In 1982/1983 Hubbard blew up when he found out that so many books not written by him were sold on org lines and even in some cases by the publications organizations themselves. He demanded heads on pikes to find those who were trying to destroy him and scientology pushing his policy "Vital Data On Promotion" and the part of it that stressed no books by others. While external influence missions were sent all around the world to find and punish all responsible for this, and all who supported it, what he never would mention was that it was he himself who approved many of those books.
For example, Hubbard told me that he had never approved a Ruth Minshull book and only ever had seen one of them - "Miracles for Breakfast". Yet I later found out and confirmed that not only did he see others of her books but he actually approved them in writing for distribution on org lines in exchange for a piece of the action. I later got the approvals from Ruth herself and confirmed from a key messenger that she actually witnessed Hubbard signing the approvals;
(v) in the same time period as in "iv" above Hubbard was constantly demanding that external influences be found as it must be them that was holding scientology down. Scientologists around the world, most of them staff, were horribly abused, gang bang sec checks became rampant, declares reached all time highs and countless families were destroyed through disconnection simply because Hubbard's saw enemies in his most loyal and dedicated followers when he was not getting his way;
(vi) Hubbard often gave horribly stupid orders into the corporate area and there were often people who had to constantly figure out how to "make him feel right" and not comply with the orders without having him go ballistic. One example was Hubbard ordering the selling of minister status for big bucks so that the people getting them could get all sorts of tax benefits and related perks (such as tax deductions for their home mortgages, etc.). Great effort had to be made to not comply and yet make it look like one was complying so as not to incur his wrath.
There are countless examples of these sort of things.
I cannot say with certainty what drove a man to do all this but I can say that the fraud, cruelty and betrayal spanned decades and was not just something found in his last few years of almost complete mental breakdown.
It is my belief that the insane paranoia and fear that Hubbard constantly showed was woven throughout scientology policy. Such things as the RPF, heavy ethics for counter and other intentions (to his own), the cruelty of disconnection and so much more all to "protect" a tech he called priceless but was rather valueless to most who tried it.
This is also reflected in his crazy ramblings were he saw enemies everywhere and demanded the destruction of those who opposed his will.
And, I submit that the entire corporate structure of organized scientology, all the lies that make up the foundation of that house of cards as well as the religious cloaking that helps hold it in place is nothing more than a reflection of that same, insane paranoia of Hubbard as he demanded control of his little empire while cowardly hiding behind its myriad veils so as not to be held liable for that of which he was completely liable.
I submit that Hubbard had no really great accomplishments. The bigger accomplishments (such as they were) in the history of organized scientology were IMO not achieved by Hubbard. Rather they were achieved by loving, dedicated and, yes, misled people who themselves put it all on the line to dedicate themselves and their lives to the following of a man who would ultimately betray them.
I find it difficult to find any real hate in my heart for this but there is much sadness in there. A sadness for all the good souls who cared and who tried to follow a dream and were betrayed.
Did Hubbard really think he would "clear the planet" and that scientology should really expand well beyond his own life? I don't know for sure but I cannot get this troubling thought out of my mind: I once went to the leaders of the Watchdog Committee and the then leader of RTC before Miscavige took over. I tried to reconcile the constant demands for money every week. I asked how will we clear the rest of the planet when such a large portion of it could not afford scientology services.
All I got back were blank stares.
And I had a sad
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