Good twin
Floater
I made the reservations at McDonald's and then you did not show.
So I had to order 10 chocolate shakes just to set things right with the proprieter.
Next time, please call if you are not going to show...
...or what?
Good Twin road trip
- Thread starter Good twin
- Start date
...or what?
Wisened One
Crusader
....so you bidin' yer time to hit 5000 posts or what?
Good twin
Floater
Tomorrow I have to go back to work. Tonight I'm going to go out to dinner and then I'll come back and wrap up this thread. Part of it is in my head and the rest will be straight from the heart. Kat got me all emotional today and it was just what I needed to get the final chapter stirred up. I dunno about hittin 5000. Right now it doesn't much matter. Be back soon....................
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
We just got back from dinner. Strangely enough, I was telling hubby how you had to fill us all in about something mysterious. I think when you post, it's gonna be a tissue raid.
If I'm not making sense, blame it on the margarita. Knocked me on my ass. Thank goodness, hubby was driving. We found a new Mexican food restaurant. We've been to this place once before, when we were looking for a home here in TX. It was good. The Margarita was good - it should be it cost nearly $11. That's what happens when you call your liquor.
Looking forward to the rest of the story.
Didn't mean to get you all "emotional today". But I think we are still peeling this onion.
Good twin
Floater
Post Script
Well, I suppose you might wanta keep your tissue box handy. We'll see where this goes.
I started to put the pieces together a while back when BlueWigGirl was asking for advice about making a video. She had an idea bout pushing the disconnection button. Or was it the reconnection button? It's all the same for me. At any rate reading whatever she wrote made me cry. I thought I was cried out and here I was sobbing like a girl. I'm like "WTF?"
So....I tell her it's a good button. It got me going. Sometimes the anons really nail it, if you know what I mean. This experience has me pondering just how much I have recovered since leaving, if at all. I'm trying to decide what have I lost and what have I gained. Sure enough I come up with some insight. I looked at the exact moment I decided I could throw out Scientology. I found the thing I would trade it for. I found the thing that for me was more valuable than a cleared planet.
It was love.
You can get your tissues out now. I'll be back in a minute. (blurry screen)
Well, I suppose you might wanta keep your tissue box handy. We'll see where this goes.
I started to put the pieces together a while back when BlueWigGirl was asking for advice about making a video. She had an idea bout pushing the disconnection button. Or was it the reconnection button? It's all the same for me. At any rate reading whatever she wrote made me cry. I thought I was cried out and here I was sobbing like a girl. I'm like "WTF?"
So....I tell her it's a good button. It got me going. Sometimes the anons really nail it, if you know what I mean. This experience has me pondering just how much I have recovered since leaving, if at all. I'm trying to decide what have I lost and what have I gained. Sure enough I come up with some insight. I looked at the exact moment I decided I could throw out Scientology. I found the thing I would trade it for. I found the thing that for me was more valuable than a cleared planet.
It was love.
You can get your tissues out now. I'll be back in a minute. (blurry screen)
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
I sure hope you're writing. I'm hangin' here by a thread.
Tissues are on the ready.
Tissues are on the ready.
Good twin
Floater
I was always kind of a mess when it comes to relationships. Scientology is supposed to help you with that. It doesn't. It just meant that every relationship I messed up I ended up paying a freeloaders bill for. I'm not kidding. Marrying a Scientologist is the worst possible prenup in the world. Working for Scientologists is worse. They expect you to do a leaving staff routing form and leaving staff sec checks if you decide to get another job. Not to mention train your replacement and blah blah blah.
Sorry I am exaggerating. I do that sometimes. But, it's sort of true. Anyway, I followed a boyfriend into Scientology and he got out many years ago. I got married to a Scientologist and he's been out for many years as well. I married another Scientologist. That didn't really turn out so good. So it goes.
The river town I'm from is on the northern most part of Palm Beach county. It's called Jupiter. Yep...Jupiter Lighthouse, Jupiter Inlet, Jupiter Theater, whatever. That's where I grew up. The closest Org is almost two counties away. It's a good two hour drive. From the beginning of my Scientology history my life spanned nearly the entirety of South Florida and Tampa Bay area. I was a world class commuter.
One day after a bad breakup I was driving home from Miami and a guy started flirting with me in traffic. I wasn't really interested, not because he lived so far away, but because I'm a Scientologist and we don't do well with those who we have to constantly 'splain things to if you know what I mean. Anyway, this guy pulls up next to me in traffic and says "Come on, give me your number". I say, "You don't want my number. I live in Jupiter". He says "That's okay. All the girls I date are from other planets". Wow. Best line I'd ever heard. It was also the absolutely most appropriate description of my love life. Home seemed vary far away no matter where I was or who I was with. I learned to really be comfortable anywhere. (TR 0 - anyone) Actually I never felt at home anywhere. I was an alien. I was from an unknown planet. I really was a Stranger in a Strange Land. (Heinlein was required reading for Scientologists in the70s)
This was just the beginning of chinking away who I was and becoming what I became. Every once in a while you get to let your guard down and just be who you always were. Those moments are more valuable than I ever realized. They come when you are in the presence of a kindred spirit. A soul mate. A true and loving friend. You might not see it at the time. You tend to take these things for granted because they are so natural and flow so freely. There's nothing serious or important about these connections....unless they are lost.
I'm getting there Kat.
Sorry I am exaggerating. I do that sometimes. But, it's sort of true. Anyway, I followed a boyfriend into Scientology and he got out many years ago. I got married to a Scientologist and he's been out for many years as well. I married another Scientologist. That didn't really turn out so good. So it goes.
The river town I'm from is on the northern most part of Palm Beach county. It's called Jupiter. Yep...Jupiter Lighthouse, Jupiter Inlet, Jupiter Theater, whatever. That's where I grew up. The closest Org is almost two counties away. It's a good two hour drive. From the beginning of my Scientology history my life spanned nearly the entirety of South Florida and Tampa Bay area. I was a world class commuter.
One day after a bad breakup I was driving home from Miami and a guy started flirting with me in traffic. I wasn't really interested, not because he lived so far away, but because I'm a Scientologist and we don't do well with those who we have to constantly 'splain things to if you know what I mean. Anyway, this guy pulls up next to me in traffic and says "Come on, give me your number". I say, "You don't want my number. I live in Jupiter". He says "That's okay. All the girls I date are from other planets". Wow. Best line I'd ever heard. It was also the absolutely most appropriate description of my love life. Home seemed vary far away no matter where I was or who I was with. I learned to really be comfortable anywhere. (TR 0 - anyone) Actually I never felt at home anywhere. I was an alien. I was from an unknown planet. I really was a Stranger in a Strange Land. (Heinlein was required reading for Scientologists in the70s)
This was just the beginning of chinking away who I was and becoming what I became. Every once in a while you get to let your guard down and just be who you always were. Those moments are more valuable than I ever realized. They come when you are in the presence of a kindred spirit. A soul mate. A true and loving friend. You might not see it at the time. You tend to take these things for granted because they are so natural and flow so freely. There's nothing serious or important about these connections....unless they are lost.
I'm getting there Kat.
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
Love the last line - "I'm getting there Kat".
I feel the pain you were in (and may still be in). But I'm not reaching for the tissues yet. But you know me - crying isn't an option. Buck it up cowgirl, is the only option. Yeah, I'm getting over that, but it's taking time.
We're all anxious for more. But take your time and don't hurt yourself (flooding you keyboard with tears) getting this done. As far as I can tell, we'll be here tomorrow and the next day. (Granted my crystal ball has never worked. Damn thing.)
I feel the pain you were in (and may still be in). But I'm not reaching for the tissues yet. But you know me - crying isn't an option. Buck it up cowgirl, is the only option. Yeah, I'm getting over that, but it's taking time.
We're all anxious for more. But take your time and don't hurt yourself (flooding you keyboard with tears) getting this done. As far as I can tell, we'll be here tomorrow and the next day. (Granted my crystal ball has never worked. Damn thing.)
Good twin
Floater
I met Kathy at Flag. I was gabbing on the sidewalk outside the HGC when it was down by the pool. I was chattering on about god knows what and she was listening. She interrupted me because she heard me talking about how I got some leverage over my exhusband. She was thinking she might could use some of that! We hit it off instantly. I seriously can't remember any introductions, I can't remember how we began be able to finish each others sentences. I can't remember how we discovered what we had in common and how much we agreed on just about everything. It just was. It still is. I almost threw it all away. I had bigger fish to fry.
After I was busted off post and three sets of lowers and being dead agented so the public and staff would accept my replacement I was being a good public person. I was still very much in the mindset I had adopted as a staff member and Scientology Exec. The greatest good for the greatest number meant the greatest good for the cult, period. I was towing the party line. I was protecting the PR machine. I was doing my duty to my group.
The new mission holder called me and asked me what my friend Kathy's last name was. Then she listed off every last name Kathy had ever had. Yep That was her. I was told I should come in to read an ethics order on her. Looking back on it I really was in my cult colored fog. I had the clear thought that Kathy had probably got herself declared because she got the "not Clear" R-factor and told the AO to fuck off. She's pretty feisty and I could picture her doing that. I was so numb at the time, it didn't phase me. Oh well, another person I won't be friends with anymore. I'm too busy for that kind of fun anyway. I read her declare and didn't even flinch. I'm not kidding. I had no reaction. Nothing. I was ..... "not there". It was the same "not there" I experienced when my co-audit partner killed himself. The same "not there" I felt when I wrote a disconnection letter to someone I should have written an apology letter to. It was the who I had become that wasn't me.
You see it wasn't that I was losing the people I loved. It was I had lost the person I was. I was completely gone.
'Scuse me. I'll be right back.
After I was busted off post and three sets of lowers and being dead agented so the public and staff would accept my replacement I was being a good public person. I was still very much in the mindset I had adopted as a staff member and Scientology Exec. The greatest good for the greatest number meant the greatest good for the cult, period. I was towing the party line. I was protecting the PR machine. I was doing my duty to my group.
The new mission holder called me and asked me what my friend Kathy's last name was. Then she listed off every last name Kathy had ever had. Yep That was her. I was told I should come in to read an ethics order on her. Looking back on it I really was in my cult colored fog. I had the clear thought that Kathy had probably got herself declared because she got the "not Clear" R-factor and told the AO to fuck off. She's pretty feisty and I could picture her doing that. I was so numb at the time, it didn't phase me. Oh well, another person I won't be friends with anymore. I'm too busy for that kind of fun anyway. I read her declare and didn't even flinch. I'm not kidding. I had no reaction. Nothing. I was ..... "not there". It was the same "not there" I experienced when my co-audit partner killed himself. The same "not there" I felt when I wrote a disconnection letter to someone I should have written an apology letter to. It was the who I had become that wasn't me.
You see it wasn't that I was losing the people I loved. It was I had lost the person I was. I was completely gone.
'Scuse me. I'll be right back.
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
Now I've got chills.
Losing yourself, in my opinion, is far worse than losing loved ones. I've done both. Granted you can't get some of the loved ones back - they've gone on to another place. And by fate or God or the powers that be, you can get back the friends you let go of. But getting yourself back, is so much harder (I'm doing it, I know of what I speak). Thankfully, our true self is just under the surface and so desperately wants to resurface that it does happen. It just takes time and some pain.
When hubby and I decided to walk away from Scn, the thought of never talking to Patti (Good Twin) again was extremely painful. We had sort of lost touch anyway, but the thought that I would impose the "disconnection" myself with her, was a cross I did not want to bear. When she emailed me around Thanksgiving 2007 I was thrilled. But I wasn't certain that we would be able to continue the relationship - was she just seeing what had happened to get declared or was she really leaving the "religion" that had brought us together?
Now nearly two years later, we are closer/tighter than we ever were while in Scn. We talk much more frequently since she's now not a Mission Holder or on Staff or on course (driving hours just to be there) - she's got a "real" life. And for me, she's my rock. She the person that gets all the stuff I say about Scn. No other friend of mine or my hubby gets what I say about Scn. And we've expanded our relationship into so much more than just the Scn crap and memories. Patti's my female soul mate.
And like me, she knew within minutes of meeting my now hubby, that we would be married. She got it, just like I did.
I love you, Patti. I'm so glad we found each other again. I had a hole where you fit.
Losing yourself, in my opinion, is far worse than losing loved ones. I've done both. Granted you can't get some of the loved ones back - they've gone on to another place. And by fate or God or the powers that be, you can get back the friends you let go of. But getting yourself back, is so much harder (I'm doing it, I know of what I speak). Thankfully, our true self is just under the surface and so desperately wants to resurface that it does happen. It just takes time and some pain.
When hubby and I decided to walk away from Scn, the thought of never talking to Patti (Good Twin) again was extremely painful. We had sort of lost touch anyway, but the thought that I would impose the "disconnection" myself with her, was a cross I did not want to bear. When she emailed me around Thanksgiving 2007 I was thrilled. But I wasn't certain that we would be able to continue the relationship - was she just seeing what had happened to get declared or was she really leaving the "religion" that had brought us together?
Now nearly two years later, we are closer/tighter than we ever were while in Scn. We talk much more frequently since she's now not a Mission Holder or on Staff or on course (driving hours just to be there) - she's got a "real" life. And for me, she's my rock. She the person that gets all the stuff I say about Scn. No other friend of mine or my hubby gets what I say about Scn. And we've expanded our relationship into so much more than just the Scn crap and memories. Patti's my female soul mate.
And like me, she knew within minutes of meeting my now hubby, that we would be married. She got it, just like I did.
I love you, Patti. I'm so glad we found each other again. I had a hole where you fit.
Good twin
Floater
So...fast forward to one of my old road trips. The last one I took before leaving the cult. Yep. I did road trips long before I was ex. I was VMing and FSMing and just barging in on Scientologists every chance I got. It's what I did that I still do. I'm into visiting. So if you invite me you better mean it. I really might just show up.
I was on this road trip with my old friend and selectee. She was pissed off at the mission and pissed off at Flag and just cranky in general. This wasn't really unusual for her. She's a salty ole broad. She got into Scientology in the 60s and spent more time off lines then on, but always loved hanging out with me and asked me to tag along whenever she was traveling. Since it's what I do and she asked, I did. We went to visit my sister and we also went to visit a Scientologist we both know. I talked about it in another thread, but basically this guy got screwed over big time by FSO. H etold us his story and we were both shocked, but just kept it uptone. (whatever the fuck that is)
So....after we leave my friend say to me that she really doesn't think she'll ever go back to Flag. She has no interest in getting up the bridge anymore and such. I know I'm supposed to "handle" her on this, but at this point my heart's just not in it. I'm thinking about all the people I've sent to Flag and how they have given up their life savings and come back with no result and no hope. The pennies are dropping fast. I'm kind of in a time warp or something. I'm feeling like maybe I can just say what I really mean. But I hold back.
Then.....she says "The only reason I don't ask for my money back, is because I don't want to lose your friendship". Now, this is the most suppressive thing anyone has ever said to me, because the whole curtain dropped and I said to her (loudly) "NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO MAKE ME DISCONNECT AGAIN". She asked "Who did you disconnect from?" a perfectly valid and reading Listing question. I pulled over and blew down and said.........
I was on this road trip with my old friend and selectee. She was pissed off at the mission and pissed off at Flag and just cranky in general. This wasn't really unusual for her. She's a salty ole broad. She got into Scientology in the 60s and spent more time off lines then on, but always loved hanging out with me and asked me to tag along whenever she was traveling. Since it's what I do and she asked, I did. We went to visit my sister and we also went to visit a Scientologist we both know. I talked about it in another thread, but basically this guy got screwed over big time by FSO. H etold us his story and we were both shocked, but just kept it uptone. (whatever the fuck that is)
So....after we leave my friend say to me that she really doesn't think she'll ever go back to Flag. She has no interest in getting up the bridge anymore and such. I know I'm supposed to "handle" her on this, but at this point my heart's just not in it. I'm thinking about all the people I've sent to Flag and how they have given up their life savings and come back with no result and no hope. The pennies are dropping fast. I'm kind of in a time warp or something. I'm feeling like maybe I can just say what I really mean. But I hold back.
Then.....she says "The only reason I don't ask for my money back, is because I don't want to lose your friendship". Now, this is the most suppressive thing anyone has ever said to me, because the whole curtain dropped and I said to her (loudly) "NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO MAKE ME DISCONNECT AGAIN". She asked "Who did you disconnect from?" a perfectly valid and reading Listing question. I pulled over and blew down and said.........
KATHY!
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
And I didn't even know it. I'd had already self-imposed disconnected. I had left our "religion". I knew you could never speak to me and remain in Scn.
Next time you talk to your old selectee, give her a big ol' hung, kiss and thank you from me. If not for her, we may not have ever reconnected.
Next time you talk to your old selectee, give her a big ol' hung, kiss and thank you from me. If not for her, we may not have ever reconnected.
Good twin
Floater
No kidding!
So.....I contact Kat she tells me about how to navigate the internet and find what's what and not get too freaked out by the nasty and crazy folks. (Actually they are some of the best, now that I'm really out - but when I was first out.....well, you know) So Kathy guided me out and her husband helped and they invited me to visit and I met a bunch of SPs and squirrels and it was good.
But much more happened in between. It was all because of ESMB. I was reading some of the stuff by a person who called herself Wisened One, and I realized OH...... MY...... GOD.....this is one of my PCs! Holy Cow! Now I'm wondering if she is upset with me for the very effective brainwashing I did or if she is happy with the wins she had or if she hates me or what! I PM her and......
She has nothing but kind words and fondness in her heart for me. She thanks me for the care and compassion I gave her with the auditing I delivered. She becomes a true and valued friend. So much more than I could have ever had when we were staff an public or staff and staff or whatever. The cold is melting and it's melting fast.
This reconnection stuff is amazing. You see it's not just reconnection here because we never fully connected when we were in. It's not like the family reconnection stories. We had never known each other without the filters. So we're really in a whole new discovery phase of our relationships. Like Kathy said, closer then aver when we were in. But grateful that we met the way we did, because it really is part of the package and part of how we arrived where we are.
I will never be able to take my relationship with Kathy or Michelle for granted. There are some others too.........
I'll be back. I gotta pick up my kid.
So.....I contact Kat she tells me about how to navigate the internet and find what's what and not get too freaked out by the nasty and crazy folks. (Actually they are some of the best, now that I'm really out - but when I was first out.....well, you know) So Kathy guided me out and her husband helped and they invited me to visit and I met a bunch of SPs and squirrels and it was good.
But much more happened in between. It was all because of ESMB. I was reading some of the stuff by a person who called herself Wisened One, and I realized OH...... MY...... GOD.....this is one of my PCs! Holy Cow! Now I'm wondering if she is upset with me for the very effective brainwashing I did or if she is happy with the wins she had or if she hates me or what! I PM her and......
she loves me.
She has nothing but kind words and fondness in her heart for me. She thanks me for the care and compassion I gave her with the auditing I delivered. She becomes a true and valued friend. So much more than I could have ever had when we were staff an public or staff and staff or whatever. The cold is melting and it's melting fast.
This reconnection stuff is amazing. You see it's not just reconnection here because we never fully connected when we were in. It's not like the family reconnection stories. We had never known each other without the filters. So we're really in a whole new discovery phase of our relationships. Like Kathy said, closer then aver when we were in. But grateful that we met the way we did, because it really is part of the package and part of how we arrived where we are.
I will never be able to take my relationship with Kathy or Michelle for granted. There are some others too.........
I'll be back. I gotta pick up my kid.
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
Of course Michelle loves you. What's not to love!
Good twin
Floater
Okay. Where was I? Oh yeah, about reconnection. So I also found Vinay. he was my word clearer at Flag back in my very early years in Scientology. He was here of all places on ESMB and still marching to his own drummer. I feel I must say a few words about Vinay. You see I have grown quite fond of him and his lovely wife. I had almost no relationship with Vinay when I was in. It was a word clearer / student "experience" more that a relationship. Yeah. That's how I would describe it. It was an experience. It was good and made me want to finally get to know the man from that experience. See?
And that is the perfect way to introduce my honest opinion and evaluation of Vinay. Vinay is all wide eyed and full of wonder. Everything is a puzzle to him. everything is something to be viewed and explored. He has very little concept of good or bad, right or wrong, everything just is as it presents itself. So when a bee stings or a dog bites, it is a huge surprise to Vinay. He certainly is never looking for that. But he never stops being completely interested even if he's bleeding or stung. Now.... the other side of this is that Vinay has more experience than most of the people on this board. I mean both Scientology experience and real life experience. I told him this recently and he looked at me like I had grown an extra head. He's charmingly unaware of his actual wisdom. I don't mean to devalue anyone else's experience, but few have gotten a complete education both in and out of the cult. been in the Sea Org, been on the Apollo, been RPFed, had a professional career, raised a family, put children through college, traveled the world, and pissed off more people on the internet than most ever even communicate to. I'm sure I've left lots out, Like his Math club and his web site and his Idenics practice and and etc etc. He's a real amazing guy and I'm really glad I am out enough to finally get to really be his friend.
Love you Vinny!
there's more........
And that is the perfect way to introduce my honest opinion and evaluation of Vinay. Vinay is all wide eyed and full of wonder. Everything is a puzzle to him. everything is something to be viewed and explored. He has very little concept of good or bad, right or wrong, everything just is as it presents itself. So when a bee stings or a dog bites, it is a huge surprise to Vinay. He certainly is never looking for that. But he never stops being completely interested even if he's bleeding or stung. Now.... the other side of this is that Vinay has more experience than most of the people on this board. I mean both Scientology experience and real life experience. I told him this recently and he looked at me like I had grown an extra head. He's charmingly unaware of his actual wisdom. I don't mean to devalue anyone else's experience, but few have gotten a complete education both in and out of the cult. been in the Sea Org, been on the Apollo, been RPFed, had a professional career, raised a family, put children through college, traveled the world, and pissed off more people on the internet than most ever even communicate to. I'm sure I've left lots out, Like his Math club and his web site and his Idenics practice and and etc etc. He's a real amazing guy and I'm really glad I am out enough to finally get to really be his friend.
Love you Vinny!
there's more........
Kathy (ImOut)
Gold Meritorious Patron
Nighty-night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite. 
Wisened One
Crusader
Oh yeah! I did from the moment I met you! Jan said you were a sweet person and she was more than right! You were an excellent Auditor and I never regret that I received any (make of that what you will). After my Life Repair, as you know, I joined Staff there at WPB Msn Foundation, then when the Mission folded, I joined Full Time Staff in Miami. So you and I never had much chance to know one another after that except in passing (I mean, running, lol).
Yeah, I'd say! You can IMAGINE how frightened I was when you PM'd me and I KNEW who you were but toooo scared to let any of my guard down and possibly be hurt if you weren't really who you said you were and your situation....but then...
WOW, the invisible chains DID melt away for me, too...
Like Kathy said, what's not love about you and your kind heart? THAT grew even bigger once leaving, I think! Visiting you was such a pleasure, a healing for me to see that you and your family were ok...
Shredder
Patron with Honors
What ESMB does so well!
Thank you GT, Wisened One and I'm Out, such an amazing thread - it is just incredible you guys connecting back - so much spirit!! especially after having the experiences you have had!
Just wonderful hearing such intensity of love - (especially with past experiences) flame up, and such courage reaching out! So inspirational!
Thank you GT, Wisened One and I'm Out, such an amazing thread - it is just incredible you guys connecting back - so much spirit!! especially after having the experiences you have had!
Just wonderful hearing such intensity of love - (especially with past experiences) flame up, and such courage reaching out! So inspirational!
Vinaire
Sponsor
Love you too, sis! But I don't recognize the fella you are talking about here.
Sorry! I find it hard to feel and express emotion. No wonder my family suspects that I and my cat are autistic.
.
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