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Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Owen, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    As far as the 'OTness' goes I know that you have to be joking.

    Yes, I was a dismal failure as a scientologist, but then, what is succeeding as a scientologist - becoming a heartless bastard like David Miscavige?

    Yes, the time I spent in scientology was utterly wasted, I failed to mould myself into a heartless bastard like David Miscavige.

    Innumerable opportunities slipped by me in life that I failed to capitalise on, but none of them were remotely associated with scientology.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  2. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm thinking that "failure as a scientologist" would equal "success as a logical, thinking person".
  3. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    You had me at " Scientology gives you problems you do not want".
  4. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Is that a PTP or an OTP or an ATP or STP?
  5. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    The trick of Scientology is that they actually TELL YOU what they are going to do to you, but being normal you don't take it literally because it's so absurd, avaricious, fraudulent, outrageous & sociopathic.

    example: In the core doctrine of Scientology is a pillar that supports the entire international hoax and miracle racket. The "Dissemination Formula". It is there that Hubbard mandates you "find their ruin" and then terrorize them with it in order to make them pay many hundreds of thousands of dollars to HIM. However, the cult retains a trace amount of plausible deniability, because they can still pretend to be "helping" people. However, Hubbard did not stop the "formula" at that point because his megalomaniacal greed knew no bounds nor decency. Thus, he added this to that sentence. . .

    Find their ruin...
    or make one real to them.

    "Make" one real to them. Let's first ask, why-oh-why could you not just find their ruin and leave it at that? ANSWER: Because you're not there to find their ruin and help them, you're there to take their money. Thus, if they can't come up with something "ruining" their life, you have to "make" a ruin up for them. Just....make it up. Manufacture it. Does this sound familiar? It is the same "formula" Hubbard uses to fair game and destroy his enemies (those who blew the whistle on his miracle hoax) wherein Hubbard mandates that Scientologist "find or manufacture evidence" against the person. (ref: see story of Paulette Cooper and the other thousands of Scientology victims that have been "tricked and lied to" , framed and destroyed--per the Fair Game doctrine).

    Normal people call all of this "making" and "manufacturing" LYING. It is the essential tool of the con man, the charlatan, the thief and all other iterations of deception in criminals.

    Back to the point of this post. You and I both loved Operating DBs line: "Scientology gives you problems you do not want". It's hilarious but ironically and literally true. The Dissemination Formula demonstrates that it is actually part of the TECH, part of the SCRIPTURE and part of the rapacious BELIEF SYSTEM instilled in all Scientologists that it's quite okay ("Ethical" in fact) to give people problems they don't want.
    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Hey there Billy, I see your OCA is all across the top. You tell me
    that you are totally happy and winning and flourishing and prospering
    since you attested to Clear. Whatever. But let's get down to what is
    really ruining your life. What's your ruin Billy?

    LOL, I handled my ruin totally when I went Clear. When I erased my
    reactive mind, my ruin blew, just like Ron promised! Wow, I am
    rehabbing that floating TA right now, do you have a success story form handy?

    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Wait a minute, Billy. I need to give you an r-factor at this point.
    You only THINK you are happy and winning. You're really not.

    Really? Wutttt?

    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Yes, Billy, Ron states that a Clear is in grave danger because
    of OT III! Ron states that a being must immediately go through the
    Wall of Fire to avoid complete ruin and an eternity of nightmarish suffering.

    But I feel like I am F/Ning and winning.
    I feel totally free, like--you-know-- total freedom.

    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Let me give you a confidential r-factor Billy. Feeling total freedom
    is part of the implant that all beings in the universe received 75
    million years ago. It prevents them from realizing that they
    are totally fucked up and need to handle their upper level
    bank before it disposes of them quietly without remorse.

    My case will dispose of me quietly without remorse?
    That sounds so----evil!

    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Yes, Billy it is totally evil & suppressive.
    But there is still a slight sliver of hope for you
    if you now listen very carefully and duplicate
    a two-word r-factor I am going to give you. These
    are two words that Ron stated are tools a being
    can use to save himself from the MEST universe trap.

    Wow! Really? I am so grateful to Ron and to you
    for helping me and sharing this 2-word spiritual wisdom. What is it?

    SPIRITUAL GUIDE (registrar)
    Charge Cards. ​

    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    it's not the word sublime HH, it's sublime writing. Hard concept to understand, best read on it is:
    phenomanon likes this.
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you know Mims, I've said this before here on ESMB, I'm married to a OT8 who has done all the L's and trained on auditing. My wife has the same problems as anybody else, Hubbard's metaphysical nonsense is nonsense. It's all a pipe dream, but more specifically it's all sublime in the mind. No clears, no OT's, but Hubbard got us to think they exist.

    I have direst observation from myself who only made it up to grade 0 and I know there are no clears or OT's observing my OT8 wife being married now 20 years. This person my wife does not have the attributes of clear nor OT.
    strativarius likes this.
  8. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Are you serious Mimsey?

    I want to believe you are joking but before I respond I'd like to know for sure.
    strativarius and programmer_guy like this.
  9. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Moi? Joking? Oh, never would I joke about something so serious as "OTness" No - that would be J&D, and by gosh, I keep my 7,8,9 and 10 in, though I have been known to take it to 11.
  10. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Mention of and Dart Smohen in the same thread prompts me to plug my eBook of his ESMB posts: If you want the Kindle version and/or to see 34 comments from 2008 posters [ESMB oldies!] go to


    GPMs? One thing that is demonstrably true is that hot (charged and triggered) negative items can have associated positive items. A simple (and fun -- really!) way to prove this to oneself is to have a (free) Dipoles session with my Robot at There are session notes from 4 Dipoles sessions (two from me, two from someone else) at

    Does every charged item have a matching charged polarity/dichotomy? Impossible to say. But you can check any you want with Dipoles.

    Have fun.

    DagwoodGum likes this.
  11. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Back in the days when the only route to Clear was through Power, R6EW and the Clearing Course, by the time someone reached OT3, the eyes were definitely different, had more depth, and more "personness" there, and sometimes a blue tint as in babies' eyes. And sometimes there was a washed-out quality to the person in photos, which I've since learned is the color white (for people who see auric colors). I don't know how long it lasted; months at least. I was disappointed, in the early 80s, to notice that Dianetic Clear/OT3s no longer had that quality, and neither did most of the NOTs completions.
  12. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well TomKat, as you're probably well aware, your phrase 'by the time someone reached OTIII' means absolutely nothing to me as there is nothing to reach as far as I'm concerned since these 'levels' existed only in Hubbard's mind and never in reality.

    I 'reached' OTI via Power, R6EW and the Clearing Course in 1970, but my eyes remained stubbornly tinted red through lack of sleep mainly, since I was an org staff member.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
    Leland likes this.
  13. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Well, I didn't notice that, but I recall talking with a friend in FLAG AO reception that had just comped GAT OT7 and had done a shitload of solo and he had a shimmering quality. If it was some sort of aura phenomena, I couldn't tell you for sure. I have noticed it on another person on solo 7.

    About these alleged OT abilities - some really have a smack of truth to them. Example - I read a success story by Otto Roos and he was saying how he was on the RSM and could see through the hull as if it were transparent. Now, I suppose you can take that with a grain of salt. However a year or so later, one of my childhood friends was relating how he was at a bar or outdoor restaurant with his GF of a couple years, some guy walks over, a complete stranger to both of them, starts chatting with her, then she gets up, and walks out of Mike's life forever. He was in total shock - and suddenly he could see through the walls in the buildings across the street, see the people in the rooms. He wasn't a scientologist either. I didn't prompt him, ask leading questions.

    I have no explanation, other than it is some sort of native "theta" perception. Possibly he went exterior when she walked out of his life? Dunno.

  14. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Two Jesus wept's in one week? Ah, what the hell.

    Jesus wept!

    By the way Mimsey, one takes things with a pinch of salt, not a grain of salt. Sand comes in grains, salt comes in crystals.

    You were telling us quite categorically the other day that someone's name was Dart Samoen when in actual fact it was DartSmohen. You need to bear in mind that even though you are convinced that you are right about something, you can be horribly wrong.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  15. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Seconded. Or should that be "Amen"!
  16. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I've seen the shimmering quality, which is what I was talking about re white in the aura. Also the strong flower smell associated with visitors from the afterlife, I smelled on new Clears or OTs.

    Sometimes people humorously describe a shock as an out-of-body experience. Your friend's is the best example I've heard of.

    I had a chair temporarily disappear on CCH5, after at least 40 hours of 1 - 4.
  17. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Oh yeah ... I definitely know that look in the eyes, it was calm and carefully suppressed fury due to the awakening as I attested "OT3" and battled to get through the routing form so I could get away and gather my thoughts.

    I can conjure that look up any time I like, I only have to think about how I felt when I finally knew for certain that I had been royally screwed but still had to go through the charade of smiling widely and attesting so I could escape the AO ... and then, when I finally escaped I had to work out how I could permanently extricate myself from the cofs without losing my children ... it definitely gives you a 'look in the eye' that I doubt many people would recognise!
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
    Leland likes this.
  18. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    That was your sanity temporarily disappearing.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
    Leland likes this.
  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Clears and OTs give off a flower smell? :roflmao: That's a new one! :laugh: In nine years working with public at AOLA, nobody ever commented that any Clears or OTs smelled like flowers. I smelled BO, clammy sweat from fear, public farts, perfumes that made me sneeze (especially since we Sea Org didn't wear any scented anything), Cal-mag, B vitamins (nasty smell in sweat), but I'll be damned, now we have a new idea, that Clears or OTs "smelled good in the old days." You sure come up with some wild fantasies. :wtf:

    I assure you, they did not. :no:

    If you think those people who did the original Clearing Course and R6, etc. were so happy, then you didn't see them routing on reviews week after week, year after year, for nine years like I did, with gray, morose faces, looking like someone had sucked the life out of them (Scientology did exactly that). Who do you think bought the Dianetic Clear and Natural Clear and Sunshine Rundowns? All those who were unhappy with their previous bridge!

    "You're just dramatizing your next level."
    "The new DCSI (Dianetic Clear Special Intensive) will straighten all that out for you!"
    "Ron has come out with a new tech to fix that!"

    Geez. TomKat. Stop shilling for the cult already.
    Leland and Gib like this.
  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon