GPMs, MEST Universe, God or Gods?

[Björkist]

If "mental" mass is the same as "physical universe" mass, (as a certain philosopher suggests and my personal experience assures me it is) and mass is created by two (or more) opposing goals/intentions, is there ultimately one entity conceiving itself to be two (or more) in opposition or are there actually multiple beings in this game...or something else?

I have had "visions" of other universes/wavelengths near this one and the beings in them were "doing things" (related, in peculiar and indescribable ways, to us and the things we are doing)...our words of this wavelength unfortunately being inadequate to describe the specific goings-on.

But a wavelength, obviously has to be generated from "somewhere/something"...and as bizarre and 'alien' as those wavelengths were...I wondered if the beings there were seekers/explorers as well, transcending or descending through various wavelengths, in their journeys...indeed, some who were able to perceive me were intrigued by my sudden appearance and there was quite a bit of "activity" going on...which could be (inadequately) described as "building" or "putting things together"...with many layers. It's really one of those things one must view with your own "eye".

But what is that wavelength "generator", how many, actually, are there, and what happens (aside from the obvious data re: Expanded Tone Scale) when all these various wavelengths are transcended, or descended through?

Just curious what your thoughts are, especially those of you who have had extensive auditing.

 

[Alanzo]

If "mental" mass is the same as "physical universe" mass, (as a certain philosopher suggests and my personal experience assures me it is) and mass is created by two (or more) opposing goals/intentions, is there ultimately one entity conceiving itself to be two (or more) in opposition or are there actually multiple beings in this game...or something else?

I have had "visions" of other universes/wavelengths near this one and the beings in them were "doing things" (related, in peculiar and indescribable ways, to us and the things we are doing)...our words of this wavelength unfortunately being inadequate to describe the specific goings-on.

But a wavelength, obviously has to be generated from "somewhere/something"...and as bizarre and 'alien' as those wavelengths were...I wondered if the beings there were seekers/explorers as well, transcending or descending through various wavelengths, in their journeys...indeed, some who were able to perceive me were intrigued by my sudden appearance and there was quite a bit of "activity" going on...which could be (inadequately) described as "building" or "putting things together"...with many layers. It's really one of those things one must view with your own "eye".

But what is that wavelength "generator", how many, actually, are there, and what happens (aside from the obvious data re: Expanded Tone Scale) when all these various wavelengths are transcended, or descended through?

Just curious what your thoughts are, especially those of you who have had extensive auditing.

I've had extensive auditing and I never saw or imagined anything like this.

 

[Div6]

If "mental" mass is the same as "physical universe" mass, (as a certain philosopher suggests and my personal experience assures me it is) and mass is created by two (or more) opposing goals/intentions, is there ultimately one entity conceiving itself to be two (or more) in opposition or are there actually multiple beings in this game...or something else?

I have had "visions" of other universes/wavelengths near this one and the beings in them were "doing things" (related, in peculiar and indescribable ways, to us and the things we are doing)...our words of this wavelength unfortunately being inadequate to describe the specific goings-on.

But a wavelength, obviously has to be generated from "somewhere/something"...and as bizarre and 'alien' as those wavelengths were...I wondered if the beings there were seekers/explorers as well, transcending or descending through various wavelengths, in their journeys...indeed, some who were able to perceive me were intrigued by my sudden appearance and there was quite a bit of "activity" going on...which could be (inadequately) described as "building" or "putting things together"...with many layers. It's really one of those things one must view with your own "eye".

But what is that wavelength "generator", how many, actually, are there, and what happens (aside from the obvious data re: Expanded Tone Scale) when all these various wavelengths are transcended, or descended through?

Just curious what your thoughts are, especially those of you who have had extensive auditing.

Interesting philosophical questions.

According to Axiom 1, ANYTHING with a wavelength is less that Static. Mass is just one characteristic of MEST...wavelengths being part of the energy manifestation. Your question poses some interesting possibilities (and this is ALL just mere speculation). If the "purpose" of the mest universe is to turn beings into mest so there is more playing room for the next influx of theta, then it could be that it generates multiple wavelennths, with multiple groups of thetans locking on to their own "fundamental wavelength" This would give rise to "parallel universes" and multiple time tracks.

There is a universe outside of the MEST universe. It has a different set of axioms it operates on. I have been told there are other universes beyond that one as well. Of these I have no direct knowledge.

 

[NonScio]

OK, here's a question for all you operating thetans out there:

When a thetan "observes" something in the physical universe..
does Mohammed come to the mountain, or does the mountain
come to Mohammed? In other words, does the "thetan" need to
put out a "wave" in order to observe "mest"...or does the thetan
just "sit back" like a typical "static" (if that has any meaning, since
by definition, he has no location) and let the "MEST"
(waves) come to him?

 

[Bea Kiddo]

OK, here's a question for all you operating thetans out there:

When a thetan "observes" something in the physical universe..
does Mohammed come to the mountain, or does the mountain
come to Mohammed? In other words, does the "thetan" need to
put out a "wave" in order to observe "mest"...or does the thetan
just "sit back" like a typical "static" (if that has any meaning, since
by definition, he has no location) and let the "MEST"
(waves) come to him?

Knowing nothing (except that I was OT V), I guess I would say that you would need someone scientific to answer this.

I think pictures, or sight, are light waves? (Someone with intelligence help me out, for I am blonde? No I'm not... yes I am. Oh!).

You are talking about perceptions in the physical universe. So the question you are asking is about light reflection and perception of that.

Unless you are asking how it goes from brain to thetan? Hmmm....

 

[NonScio]

Knowing nothing (except that I was OT V), I guess I would say that you would need someone scientific to answer this.

I think pictures, or sight, are light waves? (Someone with intelligence help me out, for I am blonde? No I'm not... yes I am. Oh!).

You are talking about perceptions in the physical universe. So the question you are asking is about light reflection and perception of that.

Unless you are asking how it goes from brain to thetan? Hmmm....

Actually, I am trying to figure out if the "fundamentals of thought" of
Scientology are consistent with modern physics. In truth,
the most advanced theories of modern quantum physics are
even more weird than Scientology. Scientology to whatever
extent it diverts from its plagerism of ancient eastern religions and
tries to be "scientific" in the western sense of the word, seems very
linear and "nineteenth century" in its line of thinking.

Take this statement by Bjorkist from previous post:
"mass is created by two (or more) opposing goals/intentions"
This is classic (19th Century) Hegel, "dialectic materialism"
which Hubbard appears to have incorporated into many of
his basic ideas. My question about the Thetans sitting around
and throwing out these "intentions" which are then met by
counterintentions thereby creating "mass" (does he actually mean "matter"?)
is posed because this scenario seems so at odds with what is
theorized by modern science.

Quantum physics postulates a key role for the "observer" in the
creation of what we view as "reality" ("MEST"). "Prereality" consists
of a sea of quantum probability waves, reality occurs when
"consiousness" chooses to observe...light is both a wave and a
particle...when the wave hits the eye and is observed it collapses
into the particle known as a photon. Until it is observed as a
photon, it is a wave (the classic "double slit" experiment). No
intention/counterintention creating matter here, its done by
observation.

Another big weirdness in quantum theory is the contradiction of
the concept of causality. The idea that any event has a prior
cause. Google "Bell's Theorem" and try to find an article that
dosen't require a heavy mathematical background to get the idea
(unless you're a mathematician!) Some of the latest theories
say events are "caused" just as much by the future as they
are by the past, in effect there is no such thing as "present time".
So much for being "cause"! As to being weird and "far out",
physics trumps Scientology...when Scientology theory is "applied"
it fails. Wherever quantum theory has been put to the practical
test, it has always worked!

 

[Björkist]

Knowing nothing (except that I was OT V), I guess I would say that you would need someone scientific to answer this.

I think pictures, or sight, are light waves? (Someone with intelligence help me out, for I am blonde? No I'm not... yes I am. Oh!).

You are talking about perceptions in the physical universe. So the question you are asking is about light reflection and perception of that.

Unless you are asking how it goes from brain to thetan? Hmmm....

Assuming the theta-mest theory is correct, there must be connection point "somewhere" between a thetan and MEST body for interaction/perception to take place.

What is the exact anatomy of this connection? How is it even possible for something and nothing to bind/connect? Maybe through proximity of wavelength. But how does that occur?

As far as perceptions, Hubbard suggests that percecption is related to responsibility and responsibility is related to lack of O/W. I have noticed this to be relatively true in my experience.

I have noticed that things can seem brighter or darker depending on one's own mood/wavelength. Is it actually brighter or darker though?

IMO the code/energy is there, emanating its wavelength, regardless of our level of perception of its emanation.

We can resonate with it or it can resonate with us.

A war between order and disorder...each trying to pull at (or away from) the other.

Looking at the world around us, I wonder which one is "winning".

(It's really interesting to observe the personal environments of random people...is it organized or disorderly?)

 

[Vinaire]

What is attention made up of? What is an attention unit made up of?

You have attention, don't you? So, can you answer this question?

Once you know that then you may find that MEST starts with attention.

.

 

[Alanzo]

What is attention made up of? What is an attention unit made up of?

You have attention, don't you? So, can you answer this question?

Once you know that then you may find that MEST starts with attention.

.

AAAAAA!!!!

The FOREHEAD is back!!!!!

AAAAAAAA!!!!!

I'm BLIND!!!!

 

[nexus100]

AAAAAA!!!!

The FOREHEAD is back!!!!!

AAAAAAAA!!!!!

I'm BLIND!!!!

I see you are a candidate for our "forehead blinder" panels. This absolutely unique equipment guarantees that you will not be affected by reflected forehead light of up to 1700 lumens, the power emitted by a 100 watt bulb. However in your case you may require our "super-power forehead edition" blinders, which will withstand a force of 50,000 lumens, eliiminating any of the damaging side effects that sudden forehead exposure can bring. Just place $150.00 cash in small unmarked bills in a plain brown grocery bag on the headstone of any person named "Samuel Johnson" in your local cemetary, at midnight. Your blinders will be delivered at some point thereafter.

 

[NonScio]

What is attention made up of? What is an attention unit made up of?

You have attention, don't you? So, can you answer this question?

Once you know that then you may find that MEST starts with attention.

.

"MEST starts with attention" is certainly consistent with what
quantum physics postulates...in as much as "attention" implies
observation. I'm not sure if attention can be be described as
a unit of any kind. Do you mean perhaps attention defined
as "observation over time"? A quantum wave collapses
immediately into "MEST" and then persists.

 

[Vinaire]

"MEST starts with attention" is certainly consistent with what
quantum physics postulates...in as much as "attention" implies
observation. I'm not sure if attention can be be described as
a unit of any kind. Do you mean perhaps attention defined
as "observation over time"? A quantum wave collapses
immediately into "MEST" and then persists.

Just like Planck's constant for energy, there is a Vinaire's constant for attention.

I just have to get around to writing about it.

 

[NonScio]

Just like Planck's constant for energy, there is a Vinaire's constant for attention.

I just have to get around to writing about it.

I sense a possible Nobel Prize! Please don't donate the prize
money to Scientology!

 

[Vinaire]

I sense a possible Nobel Prize! Please don't donate the prize
money to Scientology!

I may donate it to Free Zone.

.

 

[Leon]

Let's see if we can get a bit more mileage out of this thread.


- Vinaire Quote:

"What is attention made up of? What is an attention unit made up of?
You have attention, don't you? So, can you answer this question?
Once you know that then you may find that MEST starts with attention."


- NonScio Quote:

"MEST starts with attention" is certainly consistent with what
quantum physics postulates...in as much as "attention" implies
observation. I'm not sure if attention can be be described as
a unit of any kind. Do you mean perhaps attention defined
as "observation over time"? A quantum wave collapses
immediately into "MEST" and then persists."


Leon Says: Attention is no more than a willingness to duplicate and become identified with. Whe I say "become identified with" I mean something like being willing to wear the team jersey for a while. Not a permanent identification.

Tghis "attention" would be a quantum "wave" and it would indeed collapse into mest when identification took place. And it would vanish again as a particle once the attention was off that identification.

======

How does a thetan "see" things? By any of a large variety of methods. Waiting for mest waves to impinge on one is such a method. Putting out a beam of one's own and "reading" the echo is another. Jsut being aware is yet another. And then there is plain old Looking and Seeing. That's worth a try too.

==============

In talks I've given I have found it useful to describe the difference beween static and theta in this way: Imagine a guy down in a submarine looking through a periscope at the world above the waters. Imagine him forgetting who he was in the submarine and he gets so absorbed in what he sees that he thinks he is seeing from the viewpoint of the mirror at the top of the periscope. And now go a step further and have this as not just 'seeing' alone, but full experience and participation in life all from the "viewpoint" of the reflection in the mirror.

Static is the guy in the sub. Thetan is the reflection in the top mirror which is now a viewpoint.

It's not a perfect analogy by any means but it illustrates things a little. Audiences love it.

 

[Mojo]

Just like Planck's constant for energy, there is a Vinaire's constant for attention.

I just have to get around to writing about it.

Hmmmm. This is good. Very good.

Have you ever heard of, or played, the childhood game called ' warm, warmer cold, colder'? I don't know the actual name of the game V. but the idea was for someone to think of one thing, and for others to try and know/guess what the first one was thinking. By asking questions the 'thinker' responded with 'warm/warmer' if the question was getting close to the truth (of his thought) and 'cold/colder' if the question was getting farther away from the truth (of his thought).

In light of that game (if you're inclined to play) I would ask #1.: would the quantity and frequency of Planck's constant for energy be replacable by quality and certainty in Vinaire's Constant for Attention?

Lar

P.S. The game has a limit as to how many questions can be asked (thus the #1. above).

 

[Vinaire]

I think that ATTENTION UNIT would have something to do with locking up of "the desire to as-is" with "the desire to alter-is."

.

 

[Leon]

I think that ATTENTION UNIT would have something to do with locking up of "the desire to as-is" with "the desire to alter-is."

.

Please clarify this for me.

 

[Vinaire]

Please clarify this for me.

I guess I have to clarify it for myself too. Maybe you can help me.

A flow occurs and vanishes without persisting. That would be as-isness. It would be like a harmonic underlying the reach and withdraw of Factor # 6.

Persistence is introduced through alter-isness. Here we have a ridge sort of a situation... something acting against the flow of as-isness. Here something is extended out there but cannot be withdrawn because something is holding it out there. Could it be an as-isness hitting another as-isness... just a speculation...



Existing ridges come into view when attention is placed on them, and when attention is put somewhere else, they recede from view.

There is something in the attention unit which starts resonating at the frequency of a ridge to bring it into view, and then this ridge drops out of view when the attention units are resonating at some other frequency.

Attention units mock up the ridge that we then perceive. How do they do it? (I am just thinking out loud.)

Attention units then have the ability to respond to potentials held in space. What are those potentials?

I have to keep meditating here.

.

 

[Leon]

I heartily recommend that you read Dennis Stephens' write-up on TROM. He has some processes at the end of his write-up that I think are best ignored but his theory work is excellent. It will clarify a lot of these things for you.

....

I have just checked the link and his site is down - not sure why. I have it all downloaded but it is too long for a post. Will have to send it to you PM or something.

Suggestions???