Grass Roots Movement

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Well, what I have found is that the "report" aspect and "acknowleding" each bit is unnecessary in the KHTK approach, because the actual relief comes from looking. Just being with the person and encouraging the person to look is much more efficient way to go. This is what friends do.

Hubbard's approach was diving into the mind and digging deeply. KHTK approach is simply taking the layers off as they become available and not digging into the mind at all. There is a big difference.

Hubbard's approach puts one into tricky, stressful and dangerous situations that are not error-tolerant. KHTK avoids all those situations and is very error-tolerant.

Hubbard is forcing people to look according to his own computations. He is trying to get around the self-protective features of the mind. You may get some spectacular results this way, but this beefs up the resistance in the mind and also makes one dependent on the auditor. OT levels do not make one independent. They make one very dependent on an ego system of Hubbard's design.

KHTK is simply encouraging people to look by following the attention patterns of the way the mind wants to unfold or un-stack itself.

This "reporting" feature may be important in Hubbard's method, but it is not important in KHTK. There is no reason to keep pc folders. Each KHTK session, or friendly discussion, may start totally fresh and new from wherever a person's attention is at. The KHTK exercises may be done in any sequence and as many times as one wants.

The repetition is necessary only for digging into the mind. This is not done in KHTK. If a question is repeated in an exercise, it is simply to see if another response to that question is available. A response is not expected as in Scientology where one repeats the question until one gets the right response to make the needle F/N. In KHTK if there is no response available to a question, one simply drops the question, or one may simply discuss the question while encouraging the person to look if a person has his attention in that area. There is no boring or drilling in KHTK as it is in Scientology.

The basic KHTK principles are laid out in KHTK 1A, 1B and 1C. KHTK 1D shows how KHTK princles make the application of other therapies much safer. I am now reviewing subsequent KHTK essays.

I understand auditing. I simply do not want to continue with that eror-prone and self-defeating approach.

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Oh, I agree that auditing is dangerous and for the reasons you stated. I just disagreed with your statement that it was just about getting the person to talk. That ain't it.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Oh, I agree that auditing is dangerous and for the reasons you stated. I just disagreed with your statement that it was just about getting the person to talk. That ain't it.


Let me put it this way. Talking about the detail of one's case is an important aspect of psychoanalysis and Scientology. But that is not so in KHTK.

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uniquemand

Unbeliever
That is one reason I would question the value of KHTK, then. I think that engagement is necessary to progress. Without it, it's an intellectual exercise of some interest, but will be limited by the areas the person is unwilling to look. A lot of people don't like to watch our real history, or hear upsetting truths. I won't force people to face the facts, but I don't think the opinions of people who won't face the facts are well-grounded, and I'm less likely to listen to them. In a similar way, a person who hasn't faced and engaged with the demons/issues of their lives has a right not to do so, but if they expect to get past them, well, they'll have to face them.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
That is one reason I would question the value of KHTK, then. I think that engagement is necessary to progress. Without it, it's an intellectual exercise of some interest, but will be limited by the areas the person is unwilling to look. A lot of people don't like to watch our real history, or hear upsetting truths. I won't force people to face the facts, but I don't think the opinions of people who won't face the facts are well-grounded, and I'm less likely to listen to them. In a similar way, a person who hasn't faced and engaged with the demons/issues of their lives has a right not to do so, but if they expect to get past them, well, they'll have to face them.


Talking about one's case in detail is not necessary for engagement, looking at one's case is.

A person is more likely to be honest with oneself. It is the consideration of others and evaluations by others that shut him up. Just the body language of an auditor when listening to a preclear can be evaluative.

KHTK makes it possible for a person to be honest with himself or herself more so than in psychoanalysis or in Scientology. It is this honesty that brings relief. This is what happens in a real friendship. Two friends may sit silently together yet a lot of engagement can happen between them. Each encourages the other to look and be honest with oneself even when silent.

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uniquemand

Unbeliever
I agree that when a person is honest with themself, that is when any benefit from any therapeutic activity is obtained. Many people have difficulty with this. It helps to have a friend listen, IMO, but there is the danger of evaluation/invalidation. The same is true for psychotherapy or any other activity. This is why most good therapists have been trained to listen without any other agenda than understanding and drawing the person further out, getting them to explore and face the truths they hold within. Most friends have that INSTINCT, but rarely the training.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I agree that when a person is honest with themself, that is when any benefit from any therapeutic activity is obtained. Many people have difficulty with this. It helps to have a friend listen, IMO, but there is the danger of evaluation/invalidation. The same is true for psychotherapy or any other activity. This is why most good therapists have been trained to listen without any other agenda than understanding and drawing the person further out, getting them to explore and face the truths they hold within. Most friends have that INSTINCT, but rarely the training.


"To get another person to face the truth" is where the rub is. This is evaluation.

Any resistence or difficulty comes from trying to un-stack the mind in some unnatural order. That unnatural order comes from evaluation and also from expectation (another form of evaluation). When the mind is allowed to unstack itself in a natural order there is no resistance and everything works out beautifully. This is the idea that KHTK is built around.

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uniquemand

Unbeliever
you assume that the therapist is trying to do something that the person doesn't want to do, or face something that they don't see, or some such.

why do you need to write the KHTK articles? why do you recommend them to others, if there is a natural function, and people shouldn't be pushed past using that function: let them discover for themselves. what's the point of KHTK?

I think you're arguing against your own actions.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
you assume that the therapist is trying to do something that the person doesn't want to do, or face something that they don't see, or some such.

why do you need to write the KHTK articles? why do you recommend them to others, if there is a natural function, and people shouldn't be pushed past using that function: let them discover for themselves. what's the point of KHTK?

I think you're arguing against your own actions.


The purpose is KHTK is to put my own thoughts in order. I think that is why anybody writes.

If KHTK resonates with others that is fine with me. If it does not resonate with others that is fine with me too.

Ha ha...

I recommend it to others to simply present my viewpoint on a subject of common concern.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
KHTK 1E: LOOKING: SUMMARY

Here is the latest revision of KHTK 1E:


KHTK 1E: LOOKING: SUMMARY​

You may do these exercises once or as many times as you wish. The whole idea is to practice the following skill:

LOOK AND SIMPLY OBSERVE WHAT IS THERE WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING, OR ATTEMPTING TO GET AN ANSWER.

LOOKING is not suppressing anything. In looking, one is being totally honest with oneself.

LOOKING includes becoming aware of all perceptions and not just visual.

LOOKING at feelings, emotions and sensations simply means that you fully experience them.

LOOKING is not thinking. In thinking, one is associating one thing with another to visualize what might be there. In looking, one is simply recognizing what is already there. Looking includes recognition of the fact that if NOTHING is there, then that is the case.

LOOKING is totally non-judgmental. Any judgment belongs to the activity of thinking.

Basically, one is looking at things in the physical environment or in the mind. One is noticing them for what they are, without calling them by name, judging them, or trying to figure them out.

The purpose of looking is to get accurate input, which may then be used for thinking.

Looking may be used to clean out perceptions stacked up in the mind. When a question is asked for this purpose, as in therapy, one simply waits until the response appears in the mind. When there is no response one does not speculate. One simply accepts the fact that there is no response and moves on.

Lastly, LOOKING is totally effortless. If there is any effort it comes from thinking.

Practice LOOKING, as you go through your daily routine until it has become a second nature to you. As you do so, thinking becomes effortless too, and you are then able to resolve the difficulties in life much faster and more often.
 
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paradox

ab intra silentio vera
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It helps to have a friend listen, IMO, but there is the danger of evaluation/invalidation. The same is true for psychotherapy or any other activity.

I get the viewpoint, but I think too much is made of it. Perhaps it's a matter of maturing beyond really caring what other people think except in the context of Aristotle's statement

Aristotle said:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
The danger isn't serious from eval/inval, except in extreme cases, or where the client has extremely low ego strength (flinch at anything). However, due to the nature of the relationship, eval/inval can be amplified beyond what happens in a normal context.

I maintain that it is equally important not to make supportive or "positive" evals as it is not to make negative ones. When an "auditor" or other helping professional gives the idea that the client has finally given them the answer or result that they were looking for, that is just as dangerous as telling the person that their ideas are bad or wrong.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
The danger isn't serious from eval/inval, except in extreme cases, or where the client has extremely low ego strength (flinch at anything). However, due to the nature of the relationship, eval/inval can be amplified beyond what happens in a normal context.

I maintain that it is equally important not to make supportive or "positive" evals as it is not to make negative ones. When an "auditor" or other helping professional gives the idea that the client has finally given them the answer or result that they were looking for, that is just as dangerous as telling the person that their ideas are bad or wrong.


KHTK is very error-tolerant because of its very nature. Training on KHTK principles sort of proofs a person against the downside of evaluations and invalidations.

A KHTK trained person looks at evaluations and invalidations and recognizes them for what they are. If they create a response within him then he looks at those responses non-judgmentally too, and experiences them fully. He moves through any effects very fast.

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