Has anybody run an Engram?

Gib

Crusader
This is a ex scientology message board.

Have any of you people that regularly post here, ever run an engram?
 

Gib

Crusader
This is a ex scientology message board.

Have any of you people that regularly post here, ever run an engram?
question to HH, trouble, Paul, roger, entheta, PTS, emma, alanzo, blue, face, lurker, sheila, lotus, pineapple, leland, karen, jeff, bill, paul, churchill, mike rinder, marty, everybody and anybody who posts here.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a ex scientology message board.

Have any of you people that regularly post here, ever run an engram?
Good question. I've wondered about that myself. If you mean an engram the way Hubbard defines it in DMSMH, as an incident containing pain and unconsciousness, complete with all perceptics, that I know actually happened, then the answer (surprising to me) is NO.

If you take out the "that I know actually happened" part, then yes, I did. I ran mostly "whole track" stuff which I now believe was fantasy. This was what the people I audited mostly ran, too.

I can't say that I actually ever ran a real engram, i.e. one that I know really happened.
 
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ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
My first entry into the world of scientology was to sign up for 50 hours of book 1 Dianetics auditing.

After a few hours of nothing happening I was told I wasn't confronting my bank so I needed to do the Communication Course to learn how to confront. I did the course and went back to the auditing.

After a few more hours of nothing happening I was told I had a bad memory so I needed to do the Purification Rundown, even though I'd never taken any illegal drugs. So I did the Purif, was forced to attest to it even though I got nothing out of it, then went back to the auditing.

When I'd completed my 50 hours with no results at all I was told that I needed scientology auditing on the e-meter. But my org didn't have any scientology auditors so I was sent to Saint Hill. After more useless auditing at Saint Hill I eventually got an auditor who somehow managed to give me a win. And that was enough to keep me interested. Yes I was that gullible.

So, no I've never run an actual engram despite having had book 1 and NED auditing.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
No, I have never run an engram and I didn't run 'track' either ... most of my time as a PC (which wasn't much) was spent being concerned about the auditor because I know they get put through hell when there are no results or negative ones. I always made sure to F/N at the examiner apart from one time when I had been absolutely savaged by a German student who informed me with a sneer that he was 'not auditing me' prior to demanding my overts and withholds for hours on end. I didn't know what hit me ... I was trapped in an auditing room with this nutter and I knew I could do nothing about it except play along which I did try to do for a while but then stopped and just sat there in shock.

He gave up eventually (he was furious) but I had to be taken back in by a class 8 because I red-tagged, she was lovely so I let myself relax again and went back on post.

Happy days ... not.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
In the early 70s I had a few hundred hours of R3R Dianetics, some of it this lifetime addressing known incidents but a majority addressing "whole track" who knows what.

I experienced some relief (in addition to the "Thank God that's over!" kind). However, I always thought I was kinda cheating because I don't think I ever ran an incident movie-style, from beginning to end. I didn't make a big deal of it as the session seemed to be moving along ok. Nowadays I know that the movie-style thing is complete bunk and one's attention jumps around by itself in the incident in the order the "charge" is stacked up (and accessible) -- not because of sneaky little commands buried in the "engram." Dianetics really sucks as a therapy.

Paul
 
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RogerB

Crusader
I and my auditor tried, but failed miserably . . . this, of course, being a testament to the bum tech and bum notion that all cases are the same.

In actuality, back in 1959, I was being run on a process called "Formula 10" that used a "communication process" to have one contact and "run" case items. What exploded to view was a past death experience which "turned on" as the present time hologram of existence for me.

That event in session in actuality put me at cause over "mental image pictures," with the result that I was no longer as effect of my mind in the way that I had been.

It was with the introduction of SDN in 1969 that "Standard tech" dictated I "had to get Dn" . . .

But nothing could be found that would run . . . eventually, it turned out I had "blown the Dn case of being effect of the mental image picture crap" 10 years earlier.

Over the years however, it turned out that I was able to verify the content and accuracy of the "hologram" that had suddenly turned on in the 1959 session . . . this because the content of the event and aspects of the individual's lifetime turned out to be available in the historical record and much that seemed not to make sense in the Hologram became understood as I learned of the real and recorded history.

I give you the above because my findings along with many others is that we do have a record of the past impressed within/throughout our existence . . . but the truth is, Dianetics is a bum and bad way of dealing with it.
 
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Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've run engrams; lots of them.

One in particular was when my XBF dumped me. He left me in shock and with a permanently broken heart. Dianetics helped but I'm still not over him.


I think Dianetics is not emphasized enough in comparison with "Scientology auditing". And no, it's not just for the body.

Helena
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
I've run engrams; lots of them.

One in particular was when my XBF dumped me. He left me in shock and with a permanently broken heart. Dianetics helped but I'm still not over him.

I think Dianetics is not emphasized enough in comparison with "Scientology auditing". And no, it's not just for the body.


Helena
Helena, what you're describing sounds like a traumatic incident, for sure, but is that really an engram as defined by scn? Did it contain pain and unconsciousness? I think scn would describe that as a secondary, and secondaries supposedly derive their force from earlier engrams, right?
 

Gib

Crusader
My first entry into the world of scientology was to sign up for 50 hours of book 1 Dianetics auditing.

After a few hours of nothing happening I was told I wasn't confronting my bank so I needed to do the Communication Course to learn how to confront. I did the course and went back to the auditing.

After a few more hours of nothing happening I was told I had a bad memory so I needed to do the Purification Rundown, even though I'd never taken any illegal drugs. So I did the Purif, was forced to attest to it even though I got nothing out of it, then went back to the auditing.

When I'd completed my 50 hours with no results at all I was told that I needed scientology auditing on the e-meter. But my org didn't have any scientology auditors so I was sent to Saint Hill. After more useless auditing at Saint Hill I eventually got an auditor who somehow managed to give me a win. And that was enough to keep me interested. Yes I was that gullible.

So, no I've never run an actual engram despite having had book 1 and NED auditing.
quite similar to me, only I was much later than you, namely having read diantics in 1987 because of the Jefferson Hawkins marketing campaign back then.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yes interested to know if anyone had a phrase that came up during some unconscious moment that has made them do bla bla for their whole life and now they are free of it. Ive never heard anyone do that and i did not run anything that has phrases in it.

Also would like to know if the clear cog is you realise you have pictures you dont need to keep bringing up or you simply made up all those pictures in the past or you have run thru all the pictures and there is nothing left to run on the 1st d so therefore you go past a point and start making stuff up and voila you are therefore clear as everything from thereon is made up....
yep, good questions, those phrases during unconsciousness ( engrams) were supposed to be hypnotic commands.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a ex scientology message board.

Have any of you people that regularly post here, ever run an engram?
Since I no longer think "engrams" exist, nor any other of Hubbard's imaginary beasts, apparently I never ran an engram.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
yep, good questions, those phrases during unconsciousness ( engrams) were supposed to be hypnotic commands.
I suspect Hubbard put together his engram idea from the work of 2 psychologists writing in the 1940's, G. H. Estabrooks and Andrew Salter.

From G. H. Estabrooks "Hypnotism," originally published in 1943:

"... the kleptomaniac and the pyromaniac are really working under a posthypnotic suggestion -- minus the hypnotist. They act in exactly the same way as if they had been hypnotized and given their instructions in the trance. As a matter of fact we will see that they have been hypnotized at some time in their life and given the suggestion in question. The fact that no hypnotist was involved, that they may never have seen a hypnotist in all their life, we will see, has no bearing on the question." -- page 95.

"We will see that emotional shock produces exactly the same results as hypnotism, that hypnotism may in reality be a form of emotional shock. We are not clear on this point, but we do know that shock gives us the phenomena of hypnotism and vice versa." -- page 110.

Andrew Salter was a behaviorist and explains hypnotism in terms of conditioning. He believes good hypnotic subjects are people who have strong conditioned associations between the words used to induce trance, like "sleep," "sleepy," "heavy" etc. and the actual feelings the words describe.

From "What Is Hypnosis," originally published in 1944:

Screenshot 2019-07-20 at 2.19.18 PM.png
Estabrooks says neurosis is a sort of post-hypnotic suggestion and emotional shock can act like hypnosis. Salter says words can produce actual bodily reactions in appropriately conditioned persons. Not exactly what Hubbard is saying, but I think he probably read these guys and changed it around a bit, added "prenatals" and a few other things.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Good question. I've wondered about that myself. If you mean an engram the way Hubbard defines it in DMSMH, as an incident containing pain and unconsciousness, complete with all perceptics, that I know actually happened, then the answer (surprising to me) is NO.

If you take out the "that I know actually happened" part, then yes, I did. I ran mostly "whole track" stuff which I now believe was fantasy. This was what the people I audited mostly ran, too.

I can't say that I actually ever ran a real engram, i.e. one that I know really happened.
Same exact situation here!
Ran time track "engrams" , from begining to end, with HUGE charge, but NOTHING that really happened IRL. Although there was no phrase neither sound content.
However, it seemed to me it was fabulation.

I ran those pseudo space opera psychs engrams, 1-2 years after I read "history of man" but actually forgot about the book till I read it a 2nd time;

Then, lt suddenly became clear to me that my mental picked up those pseudo events and created a memory of it (as described in the book.)

These phenomanons are described in psychology as false memory.​

I never ran any "engram" that I shall have from real life and that really happened, although there was quite a few with pain and unconciousness.

:oops:
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
My 2 cents opinion (aside from Hubbard having narcissistic personality disorder):

I suspect Hubbard put together his engram idea from his early adult years in experimenting with hypnosis.
Using hypnosis is not consistent with everyone SO he got Volney to invent the e-meter.
The e-meter measures changes in skin resistance caused by reactions in various parts of the brain (not prefrontal cortex).

Using an e-meter gets the PC to make up stuff (sometimes correct and sometimes ridiculous) as the prefrontal cortex reacts to other parts of the brain.
No hypnotic trance induction techniques are used.
As this goes on, the brain eventually produces endorphins for stress relief (resulting in cog, VGIs, F/N).
Unpleasant memories exist But engrams don't actually exist.
 
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Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
My 2 cents opinion (aside from Hubbard having narcissistic personality disorder):

I suspect Hubbard put together his engram idea from his early adult years in experimenting with hypnosis.
Using hypnosis is not consistent with everyone SO he got Volney to invent the e-meter.
The e-meter measures changes in skin resistance caused by reactions in various parts of the brain (not prefrontal cortex).

Using an e-meter gets the PC to make up stuff (sometimes correct and sometimes ridiculous) as the prefrontal cortex reacts to other parts of the brain.
No hypnotic trance induction techniques are used.
As this goes on, the brain eventually produces endorphins for stress relief (resulting in cog, VGIs, F/N).
Unpleasant memories exist But engrams don't actually exist.
Did Hubbard "get Volney to invent the e-meter"?
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I've run engrams; lots of them.

One in particular was when my XBF dumped me. He left me in shock and with a permanently broken heart. Dianetics helped but I'm still not over him.

I think Dianetics is not emphasized enough in comparison with "Scientology auditing". And no, it's not just for the body.

Helena
So you're still not over him then HH? Well, either you never got to the basic on the chain or Dianetics doesn't work as advertised. What's it to be then?
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
quite similar to me, only I was much later than you, namely having read diantics in 1987 because of the Jefferson Hawkins marketing campaign back then.
You were only 3 years later than me. I had read dianetics from the same marketing campaign in 1984.
 
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