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Has Scio expanded?

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
DM has continuously boasted how the Orgs and Missions under his leadership have been expanding over the years.

Is this just PR or is it true?

It would be great if we had a true estimate of the present time or near PT actual size of the locals Orgs and Missions.

Name of Org or Mission?

How many full time staff members? (approx.)

How many part time staff members?

How many students on major courses?

How many students on minor courses?

Alan
 

Div6

Crusader
It would be nice if we could hax0r their telex lines and get the OIC.

Short of that, just call in to each Org Thursday shortly after 2, and ask the Cope off to read you the OIC. IF they ask just say you are calling from Snr HCO Int, or some such.....
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
It would be nice if we could hax0r their telex lines and get the OIC.

Short of that, just call in to each Org Thursday shortly after 2, and ask the Cope off to read you the OIC. IF they ask just say you are calling from Snr HCO Int, or some such.....

:lol:

You baaaaad! Div6!
 

nowout

Patron with Honors
DM has continuously boasted how the Orgs and Missions under his leadership have been expanding over the years.

Is this just PR or is it true?

There are bigger and more posh buildings and more real property as shown in videos, so it must be true:confused2:
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
DM has continuously boasted how the Orgs and Missions under his leadership have been expanding over the years.

Is this just PR or is it true?

There are bigger and more posh buildings and more real property as shown in videos, so it must be true:confused2:

Well, except that the way they plan to achieve an "ideal org" in Copenhagen is by closing down one of the local Class V orgs Copenhagen Org, and combining it with the other org called Denmark Day/Foundation. I still would like to know what made it ok to (against all LRH Management Policies I know of) close down an org just like that, and that no one smells the coffee even after that makes me think what kind of PR line was used to cause that kind of "expansion". :duh:

We should really challange those new "ideal orgs" for what they really are. :hmmph:
 

neiljung

Patron with Honors
Yes. People are more aware of it so I guess it has expanded.

Do they have more members is another question. The answer to which is no.
 

Good twin

Floater
Expansion????

Alan,
As I am only recently "out", I have been observing the Orgs from inside. Yes, the buildings are high high priority. The staff of the Orgs I have observed are flatlined. Occaisionally there will be a big recruit push and a handful of people will sign contracts, but very few ever get actually posted and staff are dissappearing faster then they can be replaced. There were less and less students on course over the past few years. Sometimes there was a spike in Basic course students, but very few auditors were being made. This changed when the "Basics" were released as EVERYONE was ordered to get on those courses. So basically you have Basic courserooms filling up and empyting out with few completions and the Academy full of staff and old public on the Basics.

My personal observation is I haven't seen any missions or Org as full or active and productive as they were before 1982. Lot's more PR and lot's more attention on the "social reform" programs, but not many auditors being made. I remember when we had lot's of Supervisors too. But now there are only a few. TTC's barely exist. There is no real Staff enhancement section in any of the Orgs I've seen since '82. Most fulltime staff have spouses that work wog jobs. It's all just a very different scene.

The missions deliver mostly only intro services and are usually only very part time. When the numbers are reported you will hear how many missions have opened. Big numbers, but unlike the old days a mission will be counted if it has one book one auditor delivering one day a week and a book or two sold per month. It can be one guy holding all of the "posts". Mission starter packages are donated and never used. Pathetic!

GT :confused2:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Alan,
As I am only recently "out", I have been observing the Orgs from inside. Yes, the buildings are high high priority. The staff of the Orgs I have observed are flatlined. Occaisionally there will be a big recruit push and a handful of people will sign contracts, but very few ever get actually posted and staff are dissappearing faster then they can be replaced. There were less and less students on course over the past few years. Sometimes there was a spike in Basic course students, but very few auditors were being made. This changed when the "Basics" were released as EVERYONE was ordered to get on those courses. So basically you have Basic courserooms filling up and empyting out with few completions and the Academy full of staff and old public on the Basics.

My personal observation is I haven't seen any missions or Org as full or active and productive as they were before 1982. Lot's more PR and lot's more attention on the "social reform" programs, but not many auditors being made. I remember when we had lot's of Supervisors too. But now there are only a few. TTC's barely exist. There is no real Staff enhancement section in any of the Orgs I've seen since '82. Most fulltime staff have spouses that work wog jobs. It's all just a very different scene.

The missions deliver mostly only intro services and are usually only very part time. When the numbers are reported you will hear how many missions have opened. Big numbers, but unlike the old days a mission will be counted if it has one book one auditor delivering one day a week and a book or two sold per month. It can be one guy holding all of the "posts". Mission starter packages are donated and never used. Pathetic!

GT :confused2:

Heh; tell that to Teddy Mayett :) Just kidding; nobody tells Teddy anything (successfully)

Zinj
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
The answer: F-no.

And that is exactly why increasing attention on celebrities.

One Nancy Cartwright is worth at least 10,000 new Scientologists. How many new Scientologists spend more than $1,000 in one year? One Nancy Cartwright can donate $10,000,000 in a year. So why bother with trying to get the members of the general public in; it costs more than it is worth. But, spending $100,000 on someone who is likely to pay back 100X the same is smart business, isn't it? Especially if they can be gotten to donate against no service or product and don't hold you accountable for exactly how you used the money...

DMTM school of business.
 

pomfritz

Patron with Honors
Just applying simple observations between the late 70's early 80's and now, the drop in people, staff, enthusiasm is huge. I was at Stevens Creek Mission back then and they easily had 80 staff, a packed Div 6 and 5-6 auditors (maybe more) in the HGC. Graduation was packed, regularly 200 people attending. No one forced anyone to attend, nor was any mass call-in needed. People showed up because it was fun and a happening thing.

I have yet to see a modern CLV org match that one little mission.

In 82 it all ground to a halt. It has not recovered and it is unlikely based on the direction they are going. Fine by me.

Glossy orgs and books can only go so far in pretending that expansion is happening. Too bad there are fewer and fewer in the cult that saw the real expansion and most can only justify it in their overactive imaginations that what they are seeing is the greatest expansion in the history of mankind.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
Scientology has been slowly contracting since the late 60's / early 70's depending on where you were at.

During that period at my org we had nearly 200 staff and 100's of public in the shop every single day. It was hard to find a place to park.

Now, most org's are just dead.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The data chief of several decades posted about flat stats since 1980s
on OCMB.

Paul probably remembers her name.

I just remember she had good legs so she said.

Clearly I have taken on a new perspective on stats.:)
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I haven't noticed much of an increase in the local org in the last 20 years! If they were expanding even a small bit over 20 years they should have a decent increase from 1988, but it hasn't happened at least not in the USA. Over this time period you have had expansion into the former Soviet Union and into Japan and Taiwan. But Scn has been banned in St Petersburg and is facing new bans in Belgium. France and Germany seem to not be truly handled despite their claims of ultimate victory over the alledged psych-backed attacks.

One things is very telling. LRH ED 339R The 82/83 LRH Birthday Game has slowly been eroded by DM. When I was on staff back when this came out - getting all orgs to the size of old St Hill was the game. And that meant the same size.

At some point, I think in the mid to late 90's DM changed the definition of what a St Hill size org meant. Each individual org was assessed for what level it's stats would need to attain to be declared St Hill Size. This was a major relaxing of the requirements, some by half, maybe even more.

DM pounded the orgs for St Hill sizedom, promising a new St Hill size org at each upcoming Int event. As we all know that didn't happen either. A few orgs made St Hill size (rumors fly that some by falsified stats.)

About 2-3 years ago DM drops the St Hill size org theme entirely and morphs it into "Ideal Orgs". Now as far as I know there are no real stat requirements for an Ideal Org. So far it seems the 1 main requirement is that the org has a nice shiny piece of MEST for people to walk into. I'm sure there are other requirements, but again we have a further erosion in requirements.

If Scn was expanding there would never have been any need to reduce the original St Hill Size reqs. This was one of the major outpoints I noticed while I was still in. Talking to my fellow Scientologist we always lamented about how difficult it was for US orgs to get anyplace while in Hungary they create a St Hill size org in a few years.

My current thinking is that is has to do with the long history of bad PR the church has had in the Western world. That, and a lot of less than VGI scientologists in the field that have a long history of upsets (been on staff, had bad ethics handlings, nightmare reg cycles, failed case handling) with their local org that have never been handled.

The "pioneer" areas don't have the unhandled charge to slow them down. But as time goes on these new areas will accumulate their own 3rd dynamic "case", falter and stagnate.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Another aspect of this Ideal Org push is that it merely requires $$$$ and a very few public are shouldering the massive fund requirements to buy these multi-million dollar properties. Thus DM drains the "elite" to get the job done. The pressure to raise the funds for the local org's building was extremely intense. People took 2nd mortgages on their homes to donate to buying the building!

The IAS has also funded a numer of these Ideal Org buildings - this again is by the donations of wealthy public.

Of note: The IAS bought a 60,000 sq ft. building for the D.C. Org. This was 2.5 years ago. Renovations of the building have yet to begin. D.C. already has a totally renovated building, it was one of the 1st, pre-dating "Ideal Orgs". Obviously they have no need of the space and quite likely haven't got the funds to do the renovations.

Buffalo - one of the more recently announced "Ideal Orgs" has a nice building. However I think it is quite empty of public on service. I'm sure this drives DM to shooting up stop signs at Gilman with his Ouzzie.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
While I was still getting all the magazines from AOLA and Flag, I watched the completion pages. In AO's mag, the font got much bigger and the completions were only taking up about 1/4 to 1/2 of the page, where it used to be an entire page.

Flag's completion are still high, but I noticed one name I knew one month and then the next mag had the same name for the same completion. Did the person do the course twice or are they falsifying stats? I'm guessing they are repeating the completions on the list so it doesn't look as bad as it is. And since I never kept the mags, I couldn't do a name by name comparison.

From when I got into AOLA to when I left - the HGC's were nearly empty, when they had been full to capacity before. There were not as many people hanging around outside during breaks. In the 90s you could barely walk down the sidewalk during breaks or meal time.

I think the stats they show at events are all false. How difficult is it to falsify a graph? Not, I can do it very simply on my computer. Maybe I should start lying to myself about those pesky 10 - 15 pounds, by putting a false weight on my chart.:roflmao: That won't work, because the pants don't lie. So, no matter how much the graphs are falsified at events, anyone can see that there really aren't that many people on service and there aren't the same number of staff on staff.
 
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