ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Has Tony Ortega always harshly censored dissenting opinion?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Phil Rogers, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I remember that he went through the implant stations in one of the books, probably a history of man or the "have you lived before" or what it's called. I don't remember him saying specifically that about Christianity in the books, but I knew that we had implants done to us by aliens, and that auditing would fix it for you.

    History as we knew it was just an implant to hide the "truth". The truth wasn't really discussed openly. As I expect everyone remembers, there were layers to frikken everything.
  2. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I do remember that I had total certainty that Christianity was not compatible with Scientology.

    But it was the greatest good to lie to new people and tell them it was. That's something we couldn't tell the truth about if we were to clear the planet.
    We'd lose hundreds of millions of Christians as prospects if we told the truth.
  3. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Exactly how I remember it to.

    Shore stories. Plenty of them to go around the block.
  4. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Is it not funny in a way, that "we" tend to forget how it was to actually "live" within Scientology, all the ideas and concepts you had to buy into to get anywhere? I haven't thought about the fact that I in essence had two different sets of "reality" when I was a scientologist. My "wog mindset" that was acceptable when I was out in the real world and my "scientology mindset" which defined who I really was and what I really thought and believed in.

    I don't think I was the only one who did this to cope with the mindfuck.
    Alanzo and Type4_PTS like this.
  5. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Yeah, it was like living in two different worlds. That's how it was for me at least. I was juggling so much which I wasn't aware of until it all snapped in my head and I landed on my arse in the real world. Pure disorientation.
  6. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Well boy do I have good news for you!

    Now all you need to juggle is one mindset, one set of reality! Way easier that way!
  7. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Indeed. It is good to have done some serious work with some skilled professionals, made sense of what happened and built a new life. I am in my 11th year out of scientology and it gets better and better as times passes.
  8. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I'm really happy to hear that! :hug:
  9. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    I was doing my HQS course (1978?) when I learned all of that stuff.

    And of Xenu, Marcabia and Fedora hats....
  10. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Trending now on Marcab….

  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    If you guys are going to criticize Tony or anyone for something they've said or written, it's only fair to link to instances to which you refer, so we can see it for ourselves, and see it in its proper context.

    Alanzo, given that I've seen you misrepresent posts from both myself and Karen in just the few weeks you've been back, I'm not going to accept anything at face value. With Phil Rogers, I'm unfamiliar with him, never saw posts of his until a few days ago, so I'm not inclined to automatically accept what he says either without some kind of verification.
  12. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    The post which revised history used data from OT3 to say all Scientologists believed that all religions were implanted. That's where that information came from - OT3.

    Part of original Christianity is gnostic Christianity. They did not teach that all religions came from alien implants.

    Being an anti Scientologist is a complete redefinition and reinterpretation of your experience in scientology - what you believed and what you stood for - in the worst possible way.

    You live in a socially constructed nightmare where the truth no longer matters. All that matters is making scientology, and your past self as a Scientologist, as wrong and evil as possible.

    Anti-scientology is thoroughly self destructive and damaging to Exes.
  13. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Cyclops Duck of the North - BEWARE

    My point is this, it's very simple. Yet another hijacked thread. Think what you want to think, analyze however you want to, declare confirmation bias all you want. Just another hijacked thread.


    Anyone passing by would notice this. You wouldn't notice this if you were in the middle of trying to show the fallacies of the arguments. You would not object to this if you were trying to achieve the newly stated purpose.

    Take a look at other threads. All this has been since the first week of August.

    When I was newly out, I shopped around for a place to listen and learn. I stopped at Alanzo's blog, read a bit. Noticed the oddness and a elected to not stay because of that oddness.

    Now that oddness is here at ESMB to stay, well for another 16 days and whatever.

    So sad that this is the way it is now.
    Glen and Aerial like this.
  14. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    LOL, this is revisionist history on your part on what happened earlier in this thread.

    No one said that all Scientologists believed that all religions were implanted. Go back and read what TOBB actually wrote.

    Here's what LRH said:

    Somebody on this planet, about 600 B.C. found some pieces of "R6."

    I don't know how they found it; either by watching madmen or something. But since that time they have used it. And it became what is known as Christianity.

    By characterizing me as an "anti-scientologist" and acting like you know what my beliefs are and what I stand for, both now and back when I was in, YOU are the one engaged in a redefinition and reinterpretation of who I am. I don't give a rat's ass fat rat's clacker if people wish to practice Scientology, as long as they remove all the abuse, criminality, and fraudulent marketing out of the "scriptures", so that other human beings are not harmed from its practice.

    What matters to me is that people know the truth about Scientology and the CoS before they get involved with it. I want to see all the lies exposed about LRH's biography, fraudulent claims about the "tech", and any other lies. I want people to know the true nature of what it is like to work for the CoS and/or the Sea Org before they join. I want them to know that the number of Clears and OT's produced with all the abilities promised by LRH stands at zero. I want people to know that Scientology is NOT compatible with their existing religion as the CoS would assure them. I want people to know that the scientific method was not applied when LRH wrote Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health.

    Does that make me an "anti-scientologist"?

    Do you have any issue with people knowing those things prior to any involvement with Scientology?

    It is natural for people to speak out against people and/or organizations when they've realized they've been defrauded, betrayed, or conned. And it is the right thing to do if they care about helping to prevent others from suffering the same fate.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    Emma likes this.
  15. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    You've made the same post 3 times.
  16. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I don't see many present-day people in the news business who meet your definition of "real journalism".

    Journalism is a business. Part of that business is to avoid alienating your customers by telling them what they don't want to hear. There is, currently, little real-world market for principled journalism.
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  17. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    You're not the only one trying to get to 10,000 posts. :cool:
  18. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    [format=h6]I have no idea what you are talking about.[/format]

    How very naughty of him.
  19. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    You've just described Tony Ortega and his Underground Bunker to a "T".

    I don't have very much respect for that. Especially after seeing all the damage it does to Ex Scientologists to get stuck in such a nightmare-filled environment, never allowed to question, never allowed to dissent, and to be continually filled with guilt and shame for having been a Scientologist. Tony Ortega continually maintains this environment for them.

    And when you question it - like the OP has done, you get banned.

    Someone has to call that out - whether it makes them popular or not.
  20. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Is this post a part of your "someone's gotta be the asshole around here" schpiel?

    Still imported drama lama ding-dong!
    tesseract likes this.