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Have you ever experienced nodding off during TR0 ??

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Arnie,

I was a Comm Course sup for awhile. I rarely saw anyone dozing off while doing any TRs.

Also, while on course or in cramming at ASHO I never saw anyone falling asleep during TRs.

I supervised Comm Courses for many years and regularly saw people nodding off. It was a usual phenomenon for people to go through.

Maybe you were surpervising so far up the Grade chart that people had already gone through that phenomenon? :confused2:

Arnie, your 8 (10) steps out is very interesting and I have seen people go through them, including myself. http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is not so much important what state of mind or reverie or trance or awareness level one is in, but rather what good one can accomplish when in that state.

Arnie pointed out correctly that the road to peace is the ability to seek justice, to right wrongs, to effect healing. One can do that from different "attitudes", depending on what state of mind they are in.

For me, I think first I had to seek the truth and, hence, my very sincere Doubt Formula began.

As for my spiritual path, I don't know exactly what state of mind I am in when I am being processed, but I do know that I am stripping off automaticities, or stuck mock-ups. That's a good thing! :)
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Arnie,

I was a Comm Course sup for awhile. I rarely saw anyone dozing off while doing any TRs.

Also, while on course or in cramming at ASHO I never saw anyone falling asleep during TRs.

hmm, I was a basic course sup too, and it was common... to see people tryng to hard to stay awake.. as their eyes started to roll up... Saw the same thing at the great new TR0 effort.. when TRs the HardWay came out in the 70's, I recall it distinctly.
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
As for my spiritual path, I don't know exactly what state of mind I am in when I am being processed, but I do know that I am stripping off automaticities, or stuck mock-ups. That's a good thing! :)




Interesting, in a thread about what Trs really are... but since it has been brought up:

Hubbard's techniques and his stolen creative image therapy taken from Volney Mathison: LINK to

\

Creative Image Therapy
.the very very best they can do, is to re-arrange the furniture in your mind.

Deep, self guided, meditative techniques, on the other hand, show the inquirer where the door is.. and after a while you find the knob, the keys, and open it and walk through to a world of connectedness to all life.

It was quite pleasant for this inquirer to find that what turned out to be the finest "auditing" (for want of a better word) was actually available from the many guides who await each student's arrival through that door.., they use a "stream of consciousness" method instead of words. Gets a lot more done per instant than when shackled to mere words.

I avoid talking of the things on the other side of the door, because I have been instructed that anything I might tell you, makes me into a thief... In effect, stealing from you some of your own joy of discovery that awaits your inquiry, to feed ego, and this is how gurus are made.

A guru will steal your joy of discovery, wear it around his own neck, and then bask in your admiration...

'When the student is ready, the teacher will appear"
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Recall Hubbard telling you to do his stuff exactly as he described it... now you will know WHY..

Hypnosis for Salesmen (c) 1960

Introduction
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs04.jpeg

Chap 2 - How to Hypnotize
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs07.jpeg

The Eye-to-Eye technique (TR 0)
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs08.jpeg

Chap3 The stages of Hypnosis
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs13.jpeg

Chap 12 - Don't Give The Buyer a Choice (sound familiar?)
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs47.jpeg

What Hubbard described as CCH's are the "You-do-as-I-do" Hypnosis Technique
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/hfs22.jpeg

Browse the entire book in image form
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosisforsalesmen/

The truth shall set you free
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
This booklet belonged to my mother, who was HCOES FCDC Fnd for a while in the late 60's.
She died in 2000. Her last comment to me (referring to litigation) about scientology was:

"Get some money out of those bastards while they still have some"

She had the truth about them all along..



Dear OSA, are YOUR statistics UP this week?
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
That image was discussed at length a few weeks back in this thread. There is an "identical" one, except with Hubbard and not Mathison. The Mathison one appears to be faked.

What do you think, Arnie?

Paul


You did not mention that a convincing argument was also made that Scientology altered Volney's image.. and it is scientology who has priors of altering images, and Hubbard was a confirmed liar,. the image above is from a 1954 edition printed by offset press, by Volney Mathison called Creative Image Therapy,. scanned by Jeff Jacobsen...

IMO it doesn't matter at all..and further has nothing to do with the topic,

Did you ever do TR-0?
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some of the key data typed in

Why does scientology try to maintain Hubbard's credentials?
(from the same page)

"If the subject is sufficiently impressed with the hypnotist and knows
of his reputation and knows of his reputation as a capable hypnotist
it is only necessary to speak briefly to the subject before he feels
himself influenced.."


The Eye to Eye Technique
"One of the favorite methods for inducing hypnosis used by the author
of this book is the "eye to eye" technique. This has the advantage of
being very simple. It takes a very short time and allows the hypnotist
to watch the subject and judge how responsive he will be."

"The subject is asked to sit in a chair, and given the following
explanation: (in scientology your also given an explanation.. you
THINK you ar learning to "Confront"...)

"The subject is asked to sit in a firm chair with his feet flat on the
floor and his hands resting in his lap"

"You ask the subject to concentrate on the small reflection of light
that the subject sees in the pupil of your left eye"

What did you look at when you did TR 0?

"You can consider that you have succeeded when the subjects head
begins to nod"

did that ever happen to you?

YOU WERE HYPNOTIZED

HYPNOSIS WORKS
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20255&start=285
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the interesting links Arnie. One of the hardest things for Scientologists and some ex-scns to come to terms with is the idea that the "tech" may have been other than how it was presented and explained by Ron.

I now as an operating basis assume that Ron's explanations were probably the opposite of what was actually taking place. (for example OTIII was actually a technique for making Elementals his slaves per his admissions). This operating basis really liberates one from the scientology trance! :)

As regards TR0, after the dope-off phase the student usually "woke up" and became really "there". So we always let people go through the dope-off on the basis of "what turns it on turns it off".

This "being there" feeling was tremendous. One of the concepts people have against hypnosis is that it is unpleasant, undesirable or unwanted, whereas I believe it is a natural phenomenon and a pleasant one. The key thing is what is done after the hypnotic trance is obtained, what use it is put to. It is a suggestible state and in the hands of a magician like Hubbard it is easily used to make "all men my slaves".

I think what happens after the dope-off phase is that one's attention is focussed, this is why it is pleasant and feels empowering. The student has gone from being dispersed with thoughts, memories and feelings tugging his attention all over the place. The student focusses attention just on the person opposite, until their attention is under "control" and focussed on the "now".

This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Their attention, being focussed can be used as per Eckhart Tolle to enjoy the power of now. But the liability is that, especially when this attention focussing has been achieved thanks to the instruction of a "wise" teacher like Hubbard is that the attention is then easily focussed on whatever the teacher wants to have it focussed upon! Like focussing on KSW and how Ron's tech is the only solution for the planet. That Hubbard's words are absolute and not to be strayed from. The dedicated glare is focussed upon Ron's tech and Ron's Black Magic spell has been cast.

This, I believe is what happened to us on a "well-run" Comm Course! :duh:
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, it was at a funeral in Arlington Cemetary, and I felt like the fella could look right through my soul, but I perceived that he was in no way a loving being or in any other way "OT". Definitely of the MMM (military mental midget) composition.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the interesting links Arnie. One of the hardest things for Scientologists and some ex-scns to come to terms with is the idea that the "tech" may have been other than how it was presented and explained by Ron.

I now as an operating basis assume that Ron's explanations were probably the opposite of what was actually taking place. (for example OTIII was actually a technique for making Elementals his slaves per his admissions). This operating basis really liberates one from the scientology trance! :)

As regards TR0, after the dope-off phase the student usually "woke up" and became really "there". So we always let people go through the dope-off on the basis of "what turns it on turns it off".

This "being there" feeling was tremendous. One of the concepts people have against hypnosis is that it is unpleasant, undesirable or unwanted, whereas I believe it is a natural phenomenon and a pleasant one. The key thing is what is done after the hypnotic trance is obtained, what use it is put to. It is a suggestible state and in the hands of a magician like Hubbard it is easily used to make "all men my slaves".

I think what happens after the dope-off phase is that one's attention is focussed, this is why it is pleasant and feels empowering. The student has gone from being dispersed with thoughts, memories and feelings tugging his attention all over the place. The student focusses attention just on the person opposite, until their attention is under "control" and focussed on the "now".

This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Their attention, being focussed can be used as per Eckhart Tolle to enjoy the power of now. But the liability is that, especially when this attention focussing has been achieved thanks to the instruction of a "wise" teacher like Hubbard is that the attention is then easily focussed on whatever the teacher wants to have it focussed upon! Like focussing on KSW and how Ron's tech is the only solution for the planet. That Hubbard's words are absolute and not to be strayed from. The dedicated glare is focussed upon Ron's tech and Ron's Black Magic spell has been cast.

This, I believe is what happened to us on a "well-run" Comm Course! :duh:

On ex suggested after reading the passage and considering their experiences, that Hubbard was giving us shore stories from the start.. what we actually learned how to do was how to get hypnotized and then act like we are wide awake...what we actually learned how to do was how to hypnotize and get hypnotized and then act like we are wide awake...

And just like a little kid who tells a lie, the explanations get more and more complicated.. just like a child trying to explain a lie....up until we are told in OTIII "spaceships that looked like DC-8's except with rocket engines... "

Hubbard crafted all those books... and what is it based on?

Based on us learning to look wide awake after being hypnotized.. and we sure got good at it.

------------------------

And consider the hypnotic command value of the word CLEAR.. it makes everything previous to our indoctrination tend to disappear..
The command word "CLEAR" makes everything DISAPPEAR...!!

All that is left is Hubbard... Hubbard this, Hubbard that, as we wade through the endless complexity of engrams, locks,implants, BTs, The Grinder... and xenu!
I feel like such a fool tonight...

The kicker is this slim little book was on a shelf at my mom's house.. I never read it, why? Because Scientology and Dianetics is NOT hypnosis commanded the unethical stage hypnotist himself...

yes, always goto source

goto the sources Hubbard stole the mechanics for building the trap we escaped..

---------------

and then at OT III Inc 2, Hubbard warns
"Only run Incident II up until you see the picture of the pilot saying 'I'm mocking it up'"

Was that 'pilot' Hubbard? checking to see if you noticed that he mocked it all up? (Courtesy of Alan C Walters clear #8)
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
On ex suggested after reading the passage and considering their experiences, that Hubbard was giving us shore stories from the start.. what we actually learned how to do was how to get hypnotized and then act like we are wide awake...what we actually learned how to do was how to hypnotize and get hypnotized and then act like we are wide awake...

And just like a little kid who tells a lie, the explanations get more and more complicated.. just like a child trying to explain a lie....up until we are told in OTIII "spaceships that looked like DC-8's except with rocket engines... "

Hubbard crafted all those books... and what is it based on?

Based on us learning to look wide awake after being hypnotized.. and we sure got good at it.

------------------------

And consider the hypnotic command value of the word CLEAR.. it makes everything previous to our indoctrination tend to disappear..
The command word "CLEAR" makes everything DISAPPEAR...!!

All that is left is Hubbard... Hubbard this, Hubbard that, as we wade through the endless complexity of engrams, locks,implants, BTs, The Grinder... and xenu!
I feel like such a fool tonight...

The kicker is this slim little book was on a shelf at my mom's house.. I never read it, why? Because Scientology and Dianetics is NOT hypnosis commanded the unethical stage hypnotist himself...

yes, always goto source

goto the sources Hubbard stole the mechanics for building the trap we escaped..

---------------

and then at OT III Inc 2, Hubbard warns
"Only run Incident II up until you see the picture of the pilot saying 'I'm mocking it up'"

Was that 'pilot' Hubbard? checking to see if you noticed that he mocked it all up? (Courtesy of Alan C Walters clear #8)

But a "fool" made wiser by his foolishness! :thumbsup:

One idea I've had recently is that Hubbard made the subject deliberately complex and contradictory. His aim: to confuse his slaves so they fumble for a stable datum. The stable datum they latch onto is Hubbard's instructions for their "hat", or his latest tech release/rundown, or secret command. In this way he further enslaved his slaves. :duh:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
A FAST hypnosis technique currently in vogue

This description of this particular technique seems so familiar, anyone who recalls something like this, please email me..

Encyclopedia of Hypnotism by Carla Emery wrote:

The paternal induction style is abrupt, shocking, dictatorial, highly
authoritarian in tone, a domineering technique based on fear. A
paternal-style induction uses a fast, directive induction method with
a cold, unfriendly tone of voice. Ferenczi said that paternal hypnosis
reawakens the hating and fearing attitude learned by a little child
when disciplined by his parents. He said that, in paternal hypnosis,
the subject is motivated by need for "abasement" and for "compliance."
According to psychoanalysts, that need for abasement is an infantile,
erotic, masochistic complex.

Such a subject is in awe of the hypnotist, and submits to the
operator's demands out of fear of him.
...the hypnotist with the imposing exterior, who works by frightening
and startling...[is like] the stern, all-powerful father, to believe
in, to obey, to imitate whom, is the highest ambition of every child...
[hypnosis] consists in the deliberate establishment of conditions
under which the tendency to blind belief and uncritical obedience
present in everyone, but usually kept repressed by the censor (remains
of the infantile-erotic loving and fearing of the parents), may
unconsciously be transferred to the person hypnotizing... (Ferenczi,
Sex in Psychoanalysis,Ch. 2)
[...]

Hypnosis always arouses a childlike state of mind: dependence and
transference. Transference means relating
to the hypnotist as if to a parent figure, hero, or godlike spiritual
leader.

...the hypnotic subject is being directed to assume a state of mind in
which mature discriminations
are excluded and childish dependence upon the hypnotist is encouraged.
As some people are pleased to be in a state where life seems narrowed
down to an easily manageable level of closeness with a powerful
guiding parent, hypnosis is in no danger of extinction... (Kovel, p.
209)

In the midst of World War II, Margaret Estabrook reported, in a
Seattle newspaper, on research which created
an artificial childhood: ...hypnosis is a peculiar relationship
between two people. The hypnotist is a figure of parental authority,
just as a doctor is to a patient, or a teacher to his pupil. Even more
strikingly than in these other relationships, the subject tends to
respond emotionally to the hypnotist in the same manner that he
responded to his own parents in his childhood. In particular,
"parental" commands in the form of suggestions are readily obeyed...
(Margaret Estabrook, 1942, p. 1)
[...]
A hypnotist's use of authority can vary wildly. He can create the
state, then let the subject take full control; training in biofeedback
does that. At the other extreme, the hypnotist uses a totally
authoritarian strategy in which the subject never is expected to have
self-control in the hypnotic state again. Suggested total amnesia for
all events under trance may cause the subject to be consciously
unknowing of their hypnotic relationship. Complete amnesia is not
typical, however, even of deep trance events. Hypnosis, at best, is a
special way of encouraging a subject's unconscious mind to activate
its own capacity for healing. At worst, it can be the tool of an
abusive parasitizing of one mind by another for the purpose of
exploitation.
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
Arnie,

I was a Comm Course sup for awhile. I rarely saw anyone dozing off while doing any TRs.

Also, while on course or in cramming at ASHO I never saw anyone falling asleep during TRs.

I've seen plenty of tired staff dozing off doing TR0 and OT TR0 whatever the hell that was supposed to be. I forgot. Hell.. I've done it myself (fall asleep, that is).
 
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Free Will

Patron with Honors
When I was a sleep-deprived zombie exec at AOSHUK, I could get an hour or so blissful dreamy sleep by going on Staff Hatting and pairing up for OT TRO.
Another trick was listening to an LRH tape, head propped up by hands, with my eyes closed, till someone eventually heard the loose tape end thwacking.
Oh sleep, wonderful sleep. I still find it one of the best parts of being alive.When I left staff I got myself several 12.5 hour intensives.
2vvq107.jpg
 
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