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Have you ever experienced nodding off during TR0 ??

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Those who insist that "TRs" are *always* sinister will never admit that anyone has ever benefited from doing "TRs," or that "TRs" could ever be used in a positive way.

That's untrue. I would be among the first to say that 'TRs are *always* sinister', but, that's not to say that they couldn't be 'positive' training or lead to 'good'.

It's just not the *intent*.

trs01.jpg


Zinj
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Another old navy guy told me that a famous policy letter called "CSW" "Completed Staff Work" - a way in scientology that you put forward a proposal for something to be done about whatever... he said the text of Hubbard's CSW policy was lifted verbatim from the WWII version of the Navy Operations Manual.. anyone with a copy of that, might look up "CSW" and send me a copy...

COMPLETED STAFF WORK

This “guest editorial” is a reprint of a memorandum released in 1943 and later published in An Account of Operations of Supplies and Transport Service First Canadian Army, France and Belgium, 23 July 1944 – 31 October 1944. Printed in
the Field, 15 December 1944. It should be noted that following the Second World War, this memorandum reappeared regularly in Staff College course material and in a number of units – often by removing the original author’s name and attributing it to whomever was signing it. It is reproduced in its full form here.


Brigadier G.E.R. Smith1, C.B.E.
DDST2
Supply and Transport Branch
ADM HQ, First Canadian Army3
COMPLETED STAFF WORK

1. The doctrine of “completed staff
work” will be the doctrine of all HQ Staffs
First Canadian Army S.T.
2. “Completed Staff Work” is the study
of a problem, and presentation of a
solution, by a staff officer, in such form that
all that remains to be done on the part of
the head of the staff division, or the
commander, is to indicate his approval or
disapproval of the completed action.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_04/iss_2/CAJ_vol4.2_02_e.pdf

After viewing the online US ARMY guidebook

http://www.army.mil/Guidebook/section1.htm

SOP was there, as was other interesting information that contradict Scientologys SOPs

and found this on wiki.

The terms standard operating procedure or SOP, is used in a variety of different contexts, such as healthcare, education, industry or the military. The military uses the term Standing Operating Procedure- rather than Standard- because an SOP refers to an organization's unique procedures, which are not standard to another unit. Standard would imply that the operating procedure is the only correct one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_operating_procedure
 
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La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I seem to have missed this thread.

Did I fall asleep in OT TR0, oh yes, and TR0 for that matter. Also visually in TR0 the faces kept changing, blobs of vibrant colours moving around, lights suddenly seemed on full or turned right down. I hadn't long before smoked dope, but really couldn't look people in the eye, I kept trying to but it was way too hard to do. Forcing myself to do this was truly difficult. TR0 put me on the path of change. Of course when I finished the course I had mad staring eyes and accepted the words of the profit as scientifically proven fact.

OT TR0 was used by staff as a way of getting covert sleep during the Battle of Britain. At least that way you could have half an hours sleep, before you were interrupted.

Perhaps I had some post dope paranoia, or it may well have been Asperger's syndrome, or maybe I was just mad but the TR's course helped me eventually to be comfortable with other people. And I'm talking decades after not at the time. At the time I thought that antagonistically staring was a good thing. Many many years later I think I have pretty good 'natural' TR's.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Arnie, don't understand how Hubbard could have borrowed Sargant's book Battle for the Mind in 1955 and turned it into DMSMH in 1950.

Seems to me there must be lots he did borrow about the manipulation of people, though.

From the review on Amazon...(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Mind-W-Sargant/dp/1883536065)
''As well as being a practising psychiatrist, William Sargant was a Minister of Religion for the Congregationalist Church (as it was then). I heard him preach when he was an old - but still charismatic - man. I saw for myself how greatly he was loved. Perhaps it was because he was loved that he could quietly institute an evil, while being trusted as doctors are. The subtitle of 'Battle for the Mind' - 'A Physiology of Conversion and Brain-Washing' - gives a clue to the fact that this book combines Sargent's two great interests, psychiatry and religion. In tandem with Cameron, his intention is to restate in medical terms the fruits of a careful study of the methods of evangelical, and even of African religions, in order that psychiatrists might take over and develop the 'science' of brainwashing. Occasionally, he says as much. In his opinion, "if a simple medical means of breaking up chronic obsessions is ever discovered, one of the final weapons will have been forged for the armoury of the religious and political conversion practitioners." (Emphasis added.) Away from Sargant, the term employed was 'depatterning' rather than the populist 'brainwashing,' but the euphemism was no more scientific. What mattered in those days was authority and not science. Sargant depended on it. In 1951, Sargant and Slater had stated, "...methods of treatment are discussed which have no adequate theoretical basis. Theoretical notions that now no longer gain much credence often led their discoverers. The reason why these methods are still used is because they are actually found to work."''
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Depatterning is the breaking of associations between memories, concepts, ideas, behaviors and emotions (and possibly also psychosomatic or psychogenic moods, illnesses and pains). What this doesn't also say, and what is equally important, is the ability to repattern. This is plasticity. When one joins the military, falls in love, or joins a cult, what typically happens is depatterning through exhaustion, change of environment, increased stress (whether positive or negative), emotional or physical pain. This can make the rest of the world stop making sense for the person. Then, gradually, they develop new "sense" (connections between memories, concepts, emotions, attitudes and sensations). Quite literally, when a person comes "back" to a group he used to know after such experiences, not only is it likely that they will be suffering from the PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) condition, but they will likely have a different sense about them, and not "fit" the way they used to in that group.

IMO, PTSD is NOT actually a disorder, it's a signal to the person that something needs to be further addressed/reviewed. When people are mindful, they recognize these changes in themselves, accept the cue that something needs review, and look for the origin of their distress. In a society where we are thoroughly distracted and looking for an external authority to tell us whether we can reflect and how to reflect, it wouldn't surprise me to see higher incidence of people who seem to have PTSD at the drop of a hat. Plasticity needs to be encouraged (flexibility), developed and aided. IMO, this can be more important than higher education in determining happiness and wealth in the long term. Those who become thoroughly rigid and unwelcoming of new experiences ossify and become living anachronisms.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I just noticed that a line from an old post of mine was quoted here, and might, unintentionally, create a false impression, so here's a larger chunk of the post that conveys the full meaning.

-snip-

Those who insist that "TRs" are *always* sinister will never admit that anyone has ever benefited from doing "TRs," or that "TRs" could ever be used in a positive way.

Those who insist that "TRs" are *always* good, will never admit that "TRs" can sometimes be subtly overwhelming and manipulative.

IMO, the cult of Scientology uses everything to serve its ends. "TRs" would not be part of Scientology if they did not serve Scientology's ends. Yet, are "TRs," in themselves, inherently and automatically evil?

Scientology exploits many things. It exploits hope and idealism. Are hope and idealism, in themselves, evil?

Years ago, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. talked about the development of "TRs" (around 1957). Ron Jr., a severe critic of Scientology, didn't seem to think that "TRs" were, in themselves, sinister and evil.

It's a mixed bag, and it's designed that way - the old glue/solvent combination that "gradiently" traps the person.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Arnie, don't understand how Hubbard could have borrowed Sargant's book Battle for the Mind in 1955 and turned it into DMSMH in 1950.

Seems to me there must be lots he did borrow about the manipulation of people, though.

From the review on Amazon...(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Mind-W-Sargant/dp/1883536065)
''As well as being a practising psychiatrist, William Sargant was a Minister of Religion for the Congregationalist Church (as it was then). I heard him preach when he was an old - but still charismatic - man. I saw for myself how greatly he was loved. Perhaps it was because he was loved that he could quietly institute an evil, while being trusted as doctors are. The subtitle of 'Battle for the Mind' - 'A Physiology of Conversion and Brain-Washing' - gives a clue to the fact that this book combines Sargent's two great interests, psychiatry and religion. In tandem with Cameron, his intention is to restate in medical terms the fruits of a careful study of the methods of evangelical, and even of African religions, in order that psychiatrists might take over and develop the 'science' of brainwashing. Occasionally, he says as much. In his opinion, "if a simple medical means of breaking up chronic obsessions is ever discovered, one of the final weapons will have been forged for the armoury of the religious and political conversion practitioners." (Emphasis added.) Away from Sargant, the term employed was 'depatterning' rather than the populist 'brainwashing,' but the euphemism was no more scientific. What mattered in those days was authority and not science. Sargant depended on it. In 1951, Sargant and Slater had stated, "...methods of treatment are discussed which have no adequate theoretical basis. Theoretical notions that now no longer gain much credence often led their discoverers. The reason why these methods are still used is because they are actually found to work."''


Dear La La Lou Lou.

Take a copy of Dianetics and a copy of Sargant's Battle for the Mind.

without reading the texts of either of them, flip through the first half of Sargant, and Dianetics comparing the subheadings, - The story that old guy told me on the telephone was that a "Clinician" and he used that word "clinician" which happens to be what Sargant was, that a clinician was circulating a paper he was working on, in the hospital, and Hubbard kept his copy and used it for Dianetics.

The first half of Sargant's paper corresponds with the beginning chapters of Dianetics. I have no difficulty believing that a paper circulated in the late 40's that emerged as a book in 1955 could have been plagarized by a thief named Ron in 1950.

I really tried to describe this without it being confusing.

When I read Sargants book, I was blow away that he touched upon so many of the same topics that Hubbard did, except Hubbard turned many of them upside down, inverting the intent.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
wow... that was one hell of a bump. This thread seems to have taken place during time off from this board (or else I just totally forgot the exchanges). I've nodded off during TR0... I've had pc s nod off, and there is a thread I responded to on TRs that is buried, and I'm so busy that I haven't dug it up to see if I should really respond again.

I can't apologize, but I do think the TRs were set up to fuck with people... and I do NOT know that it was Hub's actual intention... there was another thread that asked for experts who had degrees in psychology or whatever and their views. I don't, but I've been told by more than one 'wog' professor that all the work I've done in sorting out my own feelings on this crap would be the majority of work for a masters or PhD thesis work... I kind go, 'wtf?... I was just trying to sort this [email protected]$# out for myself'. Probably won't even go there because I'm looking at an entirely different field (textbooks and education), although I do want to create theater projects to get the stories out there of people who have been in cults...

There is something very cognitive dissonance about doing daily TRs as an auditor..... you confront fucking evil if you are doing the serious sec-checks (most people wouldn't believe the shit I listened to, and was able to dig out of my preclears)... but, you as an auditor just confront it. You do TRs, get bullbaited, and it's just what you do. I know I'm not describing this properly, but eff me, I did know there was something wrong with all of it. AND it has nothing to do with DM or abuses... it's just something freaking inherent in 'the tek'...
 

Gib

Crusader
wow... that was one hell of a bump. This thread seems to have taken place during time off from this board (or else I just totally forgot the exchanges). I've nodded off during TR0... I've had pc s nod off, and there is a thread I responded to on TRs that is buried, and I'm so busy that I haven't dug it up to see if I should really respond again.

I can't apologize, but I do think the TRs were set up to fuck with people... and I do NOT know that it was Hub's actual intention... there was another thread that asked for experts who had degrees in psychology or whatever and their views. I don't, but I've been told by more than one 'wog' professor that all the work I've done in sorting out my own feelings on this crap would be the majority of work for a masters or PhD thesis work... I kind go, 'wtf?... I was just trying to sort this [email protected]$# out for myself'. Probably won't even go there because I'm looking at an entirely different field (textbooks and education), although I do want to create theater projects to get the stories out there of people who have been in cults...

There is something very cognitive dissonance about doing daily TRs as an auditor..... you confront fucking evil if you are doing the serious sec-checks (most people wouldn't believe the shit I listened to, and was able to dig out of my preclears)... but, you as an auditor just confront it. You do TRs, get bullbaited, and it's just what you do. I know I'm not describing this properly, but eff me, I did know there was something wrong with all of it. AND it has nothing to do with DM or abuses... it's just something freaking inherent in 'the tek'...

yah but the EP of the NEW PRO TR's course that came into being back in the 1990's was something like Ones TR's would be in for Life and the person would be able to handle any conversation. So WTF, how come these PRO TR Course graduates can't handle all the people who have left scientology? Why do these so called course graduates have to constantly do TR's? Why do auditors have to constantly do TR's? Why do the training sups constantly have people do TR'S?

Not questions to you Clamicide, but you know what I mean.

Another god damn sales pitch - TR's in for life. Fuk'in aye
 
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clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
yah but the EP of the NEW PRO TR's course that came into being back in the 1990's was something like Ones TR's would be in for Life and the person would be able to handle any conversation. So WTF, how come these PRO TR Course graduates can't handle all the people who have left scientology? Why do these so called course graduates have to constantly do TR's? Why do auditors have to constantly do TR's? Why do the training sups constantly have people do TR'S?

Not questions to you Clamicide, but you know what I mean.

Another god damn sales pitch - TR's in for life. Fuk'in aye

Yep, know exactly what you mean. I was one of incredibly few people that was brought in to TTC who did not have to redo any TRs because I passed the Senior C/S checkout again after having done the course years prior. But, every fucking day, the auditors would line up for some TR0 to start the day. Dear God. And those of us who were 'out-int' would sit there, but "not actually do TR0". The amount of insanity boggles the mind.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Arnie - thanks for the post. Yes, I "boiled off" and wish I what have boiled on over to the door and leaped out never to return. I hallucinated on "eyes open" and my twin's face became distorted etc...later on in the day I actually hallucinated again seeing things that were not there - Here is where it "got" me - I thought I was regaining skills and abilities this ole theetan lost - the ability to see things no one else could:duh:

Did you ever hear about the "Brothers of the Northern Lights" or something to that effect - 1800's type of Aleistar Crowley crap? I saw a posting somewhere as to where Crowley got his majick - and Hubbard too.

I think that these witches and warlocks discovered that when you put someone across from another person for long periods of time - strange phenom's occur - and they sure do. MAJICK!

The eeee Pee of getting out is wanting justice for getting bamboozled and wanting to help others get out or prevent them harm from going in....hence Hubbard's process: "going in to spaces" "get out" "kicked out of spaces" all of these commands and questions made me so very very curious...curiosity is what got me hooked (and that Hubbturd even wrote about "curious" and then that became a marketing slogan: "curious about yourself") along with the mind control methods..."get up the bridge" "read this...buy that" and total control of your mind, body and spirit!! You have a reactive mind, they told me, and that reactive mind will not want you to survive! That is what I operated on for my entire stint in the cult - my body, mind and spirit was telling me to RUN - but I kept overcoming it...car accidents, illness, strange things blowing up in my life - YIKES!!

I do have a reactive mind and I will keep it - it warns me of danger and I like that - it helps me survive!!

Love you Arnie!! You have helped me and so many people!! Thank you!!
 
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