He was Scientology’s most famous spy, then he turned witness and vanished. Now, here he is.

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He was Scientology’s most famous spy, then he turned witness and vanished. Now, here he is.

[L. Ron Hubbard and his wife Mary Sue — undone by Snow White]

In 2014, while we were working on our book about Paulette Cooper, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, we got a fascinating break.

A researcher who was helping us said that he had managed to track down Michael Meisner.

For those of us who [...]

[L. Ron Hubbard and his wife Mary Sue —[.......]

Continue reading...
 
I met Mike years ago and he was grousing that he had tried to arrange a dinner with Hubbard for himself and some of his GO buddies, as sort of a thank you for all he had done for Hubbard and was turned down. I guess he really didn't have a clue about whom he was he was going out on a limb for. After reading the Sociopath Next Door, I can really see how clueless he was. Smart, but clueless. And didn't much like being taken advantage of.

Hubbard was an open flame that burned almost everybody that got close to him. Mike is another example. You know, one wishes Hubbard really did have a workable technology - with all the bright and tireless people that have been in the organization - we could have done something truly positive for mankind.

I liked Mike well enough, I can see why he wants nothing to do with Tony, or Scientology.

Mimsey
 

TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
What Tony Ortega has done in this article is both Dox and Out a man who has been in fear for his life from Co$ ever since he testified. Tony even went so far as to inform executives at Meisner's most recent company of his involvement in the Scientology Nine trial. :eek:

It seems pretty clear to me from the article text that Tony O. is punishing the man for denying him a story previously. :furious:

Well, he is certainly never going to get one from Meisner, now.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Ex-Sea Org and Declared SP
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
What Tony Ortega has done in this article is both Dox and Out a man who has been in fear for his life from Co$ ever since he testified.

<snip>

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Ex-Sea Org and Declared SP
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
What evidence do you have that Meisner has been in fear for his life?

He's been using his own name for decades and discarded the new identity the government had provided him under the Witness Protection Program. Why would a man living in fear do such a thing?
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I liked Mike well enough, I can see why he wants nothing to do with Tony, or Scientology.

Mimsey
I didn't know Mike; he was in Scientology before my time.

But I can also see why he wouldn't want to talk to Tony, or any other reporter for that matter. He committed multiple crimes against the federal government on behalf of the Church of Scientology. Many with that past wouldn't want it brought back up in the present.

But Tony didn't out someone in the Witness Protection Program. Meisner voluntarily exited that program when he discarded the new identity given to him by the feds.

I believe what is really at issue here - Does Meisner have the right to privacy here in these circumstances?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Many with that past wouldn't want it brought back up in the present.
Being super savvy on the computer and Internet [:coolwink: see my bio ], I did a deep search
for Mike and his wife online around 2008. I found current photos and bios and even pictures
of their home through real estate sites. I had speculated earlier that Mike had gone into the witness
protection program after the events of the 1970's. Turns out I was right about that.

I decided to keep the information to myself and not make it public. I think I shared it with a good
friend on the board via PM, knowing it wouldn't go any further. I thought Mike and his wife
went through enough and should be left alone at this point to live out their lives peacefully.

Mike and his wife were very nice ordinary and pleasant Midwestern people. Just decent and kind
folks. He got involved in a situation waaaay above his pay grade and got into the trouble he got
into. I can't fault him. We all believed some crazy things and did some crazy things on our paths
through Hubbard-World. Some more than others. He was one of those who did a bit more.

They are salt of the earth people. They've been pretty successful in life post-Scientology and I'm
sure they don't want to drag up the events of the past, having successfully moved on.

Many of us don't want new troubles and hassles. I sure don't. :no:

I wish them the best.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
.

ILove2Lurk posts...
HelluvaHoax! responds...

Being super savvy on the computer and Internet [:coolwink: see my bio ], I did a deep search for Mike and his wife online around 2008. I found current photos and bios and even pictures of their home through real estate sites. I had speculated earlier that Mike had gone into the witness protection program after the events of the 1970's. Turns out I was right about that.
Awesome intel work there, Ms. Salander!! That's why Mikael Blomkvist and Don Hubbard keep you on retainer!!


I decided to keep the information to myself and not make it public. I think I shared it with a good friend on the board via PM, knowing it wouldn't go any further. I thought Mike and his wife went through enough and should be left alone at this point to live out their lives peacefully. Mike and his wife were very nice ordinary and pleasant Midwestern people. Just decent and kind folks. He got involved in a situation waaaay above his pay grade and got into the trouble he got into. I can't fault him. We all believed some crazy things and did some crazy things on our paths
through Hubbard-World. Some more than others. He was one of those who did a bit more.
Yes, he was bold, fearless and incredibly productive! Far more than most Scientologists. Those great character traits blossomed fully into the tremendous success he had after Scientology! I cringe when I reflect upon the hypothetical scenario of what I would have done for "the cause" if Dr. Hubbard had called upon me. I fear that i would have been not better nor more "ethical" than Luca Brasi in the service of Don Corleone. The fact that i never did the G.O's dirty work probably only means that i was very lucky to avoid having been drafted! LOL.


They are salt of the earth people. They've been pretty successful in life post-Scientology and I'm sure they don't want to drag up the events of the past, having successfully moved on. Many of us don't want new troubles and hassles. I sure don't. :no: I wish them the best.
HellYeah! Who would want to be dragged back into that primordial mass of sociopathic clown shit?



FREE BONUS KOAN: What kind of a religion would result in parishioners needing to flee its spiritual guru--by entering into the Witness Protection Program?


.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
He was doxed earlier in a pretty obscure place and nothing
came of it. Was ignored and forgotten quickly.

Tony's platform and visibility is so much greater.

I wouldn't like to see Tony dox ILove2Lurk . . . that's for sure! :ohmy:

I'm fine as I am! :flowers:


dox -verb: (gerund/present participle: doxing)
1. search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent.
2. (Scientology - doxingness) L. Ron Hubbard's principal racket, whereby under religious pretenses he obtained people's highly sensitive personal information, ruins, withholds and secrets--after which he charged an ascending maintenance fee to keep said materials safely archived. Hubbard clarified: "It's not really blackmail when at the end of the day the person gets full consideration in the form of supernatural powers, miracles and immortality---and a certificate to scientifically authenticate it!"

.
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
What Tony Ortega has done in this article is both Dox and Out a man who has been in fear for his life from Co$ ever since he testified. Tony even went so far as to inform executives at Meisner's most recent company of his involvement in the Scientology Nine trial. :eek:

It seems pretty clear to me from the article text that Tony O. is punishing the man for denying him a story previously. :furious:

Well, he is certainly never going to get one from Meisner, now.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Ex-Sea Org and Declared SP
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

SUCCESS STORY:
I read your post, but it made no sense to me.
I needed some mass on your post.
So I plopped down some clay and labeled it “poop”
I feel better now.
 

Veda

Sponsor
"I believe Michael Meisner was also the one who told the government that Scientology framed me and for that I am eternally grateful. Until then there was no way to prove that I was innocent."
Paulette Cooper.

All things considered, Meisner is a hero, so why did Ortega "doc" (which is a malevolent act) him when it appears he wishes to keep himself and his family away from this?

Is there something I'm missing here?​





 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
"I believe Michael Meisner was also the one who told the government that Scientology framed me and for that I am eternally grateful. Until then there was no way to prove that I was innocent."
Paulette Cooper.

All things considered, Meisner is a hero, so why did Ortega "doc" (which is a malevolent act) him when it appears he wishes to keep himself and his family away from this?

Is there something I'm missing here?



In a way, yes.

While everything you said is correct, there are certain checks & balances in a free society that (on net) are healthy. This is not to say that people might not get disturbed or upset that their privacy has been compromised.

The checks & balances I am talking about, of course, is Investigative Journalism and the Free Press.

While it might be "nicer" for a journalist to respect people's privacy, if that became the protocol or mandate, that would pretty much end the free press and to a marked extent the First Amendment. Because, anyone could claim the shield of "privacy", even scoundrels, thieves and sociopaths.

Imagine a world where the toxic corruption and crimes of COB/COMMODORE were not not investigated simply because they played the "privacy" card.

It's quite unfortunate that sometimes innocent citizens get caught in that web of intrigue. But Meisner, as much as he has acquitted himself, can hardly be considered a "victim", right? He was ground zero in Hubbard's crimewave against the US government, US regulatory agencies, the FDA, the Justice Department, the IRS and countless other societal safeguards.

Meisner can always maintain radio silence or just refuse to be interviewed. It doesn't appear that Tony Ortega "outed" him from the witness protection program. Meisner did that himself.

Investigative journalism is a hardcore business, but thank god the folks that are brilliant at it don't back down for nobody or nuttin'!

.
 

Veda

Sponsor
In a way, yes.

While everything you said is correct, there are certain checks & balances in a free society that (on net) are healthy. This is not to say that people might not get disturbed or upset that their privacy has been compromised.

You - and the details of your post Scientology life - might make for an interesting article on Tony Ortega's site. I'm sure ample justification could be found for doing that.

The checks & balances I am talking about, of course, is Investigative Journalism and the Free Press.

While it might be "nicer" for a journalist to respect people's privacy, if that became the protocol or mandate, that would pretty much end the free press and to a marked extent the First Amendment.

Ethical journalists, traditionally, have respected most people's privacy.

No one is suggesting it become a "mandate" for all people that would "end the free press and to a marked extent the First Amendment." (Oh the drama!)

Because, anyone could claim the shield of "privacy", even scoundrels, thieves and sociopaths.

Meisner doesn't appear to be any of the above.

Imagine a world where the toxic corruption and crimes of COB/COMMODORE were not not investigated simply because they played the "privacy" card.

It's quite unfortunate that sometimes innocent citizens get caught in that web of intrigue. But Meisner, as much as he has acquitted himself, can hardly be considered a "victim", right? He was ground zero in Hubbard's crimewave against the US government, US regulatory agencies, the FDA, the Justice Department, the IRS and countless other societal safeguards.

Having examined - pre Internet, and most of this stuff is still not on the Internet - the materials retrieved from the 1977 FBI raids, the truly egregious actions (that actually hurt people) were not actions such as those by Scientology recruit Meisner, but by other Scientology dupes who went after actual people - not after federal government file cabinets.

Scientology could have continued Fair Gaming "SPs" indefinitely, and with impunity, if it hadn't made the mistake of diddling with file cabinets in federal government offices.

Meisner can always maintain radio silence or just refuse to be interviewed. It doesn't appear that Tony Ortega "outed" him from the witness protection program. Meisner did that himself.

Investigative journalism is a hardcore business, but thank god the folks that are brilliant at it don't back down for nobody or nuttin'!

.

Sorry, don't buy it.

Meisner's story could have been told without the personal details that might disrupt his current life.

It wasn't necessary.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Ummm, Tony did not "out" Michael Meisner . . . MM actually did that himself when he came out by reverting to his true name . . . see:

Fascinated that Mike Meisner felt so secure that he had gone back to his original name, we hoped he would talk to us about his amazing second life. But he’s not interested.
Tony simply did his journalistic job, and wrote about it.

Having dealt with Tony, face to face, I can vouch for his decency.

Yes, it is true Meisner got in over his head, believing he was doing "the greatest good for the greatest number" and other Hubbardarian such shit . . . it is also true that the choich mishandled and abused him to the extent that he turned to save himself.

Instead of working with Meisner to help him protect himself, he was, in essence thrown to the wolves to defend himself while at the same time he was being told what a bad boy to have been to caught, yip yap and what a risk to the choich he was with sec-checking to death, etc., etc.

Had they been smart, he could have been shipped off to some other country benefiting from "ministerial exemption" regarding immigration to work in the choich there . . . . but NO!

The choich idiots were so stupid as to abuse the guy . . . at one time they had him handcuffed to a bed in a motel!!! This to keep him away from the "Feds."

Eventually, he was able to escape, and having gotten royally screwed by the choich and pissed off at them . . . well, he started to look after himself!

As told to me by the FBI guy who led (supervised) the FBI raid on the cult in LA, MM had given them the exact info they needed to have to know exactly where to find what they needed to know, exactly in which building, which room, which filing cabinets.

As the FBI guy said to me, "We had to move with discretion as we knew we were "raiding" a church."

As to having been in a "witness protection program" for a period of time may have had nothing to do with "protection of his life" . . . it may have simply been to put him out of the way of any harassment and to avoid the risk of the cult reconverting MM back to serving the choich while the FBI pursued its case.

I can understand MM simply wanting to leave all that shit behind him.

He may well feel that having it opened up could bring discredit to his good standing in society he has developed since those days . . . let's face it, having been called to do the presentation noted in Tony's article is a rather prestigious status to have earned.

On the other hand, having been through this kind of ringer myself, I can say there is nothing more freeing than to get it all off one's chest and getting rid of it.

What he did in the IRS/government offices is almost at the level of a joke . . . and besides, who in America is more hated and more criminal than the IRS??

My word to Michael Meisner is: hey, come and be honored for the truth and light you brought to the whole criminal scene of the cult of Scientology.


/
 
Roger, I don't agree - I think a person has a choice to step up on the public forum. He did the right thing at the time - told all to the feds. He has done the right thing and has moved on. Good for him. What more does he need to do? Why step up on the public stage?

I think Tony has a shark to feed, and he needs content. I think he feels he is fighting the good battle and is inured to stepping on toes to feed his shark. Yes, you can chalk it up to investigative journalism. I agree with Texas Lurker and Veda on this. What does his current personal life have to do with the story? If he wanted publicly to be part of the effort he could have at any time. Any critic such as Mike, Jeffery, Chris etc. would drop whatever they were doing to interview him.

An article like Tony's won't encourage him. He could have bided his time. He could have trimmed it.

I am sure an interview with him would be monumental, considering how important an interview with an ex GO staff could be.
Oh well...

Mimsey
 

RogerB

Crusader
Ya, that's pretty good and right, Mimsey . . .

The real point I intended to make is that it was not Tony who "outed" MM . . . that in the sense of making his real name known. That was done by Mike himself.

That Mike chooses not to comment nor engage in the cult matter further is perfectly fine with me . . . he has the right to choose.

As to Tony . . . there is merit in your comment about him having a shark to feed . . . but, heh, in many respects it was a bit of a success story on how a guy who got into strife up to his neck has since become a bit of an international star in another game.

Tony simply wrote facts . . . no opinion or nastiness: just the fats, which fact is that Mike does not want to discuss the matter and wants to be left alone.

So, on that basis he should be.
 
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