Hearing Jan 22 Miscavige still to be deposed

[Udarnik]

I'd have a beer with you anytime W2T, but I think I come across more like hot in that other vid and not the least bit attractive in any sense, more like and I swear I will never, ever understand men EVAH. :confused2:

What's to understand? We're simple folks.

Unlike women.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I'd have a beer with you anytime W2T, but I think I come across more like hot in that other vid and not the least bit attractive in any sense, more like and I swear I will never, ever understand men EVAH. :confused2:

We should ALL have a beer and celebrate - DM is in the hot seat and it's Australia Day weekend!

View attachment 6549

Well Hell, JS...Men don't even understand men. But, we are sure of ourselves.

Face

 

[sallydannce]

And, I must say, Kiwi's & New Zealand are a close second...real fine Folks and a breathtakingly BEAUTIFUL Country.

Face

I have stopped pouting and sulking now.



As a kiwi I am struggling to keep up with the legal circus that is playing out in Texas. The off-the-wall bullying tactics being used are strictly about dominance and nothing to do with truth or genuine justice. The irony goes on and on and on whenever the cult of scientology is involved!

And in an attempt to stay focused and bring some humanity to the table, my love and support to Mosey. You go girl!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Yeah. Right. Me think's it's gettin' kinda deep here. Y'all ketch my drift? Mimsey

 

[AnonKat]

I'd have a beer with you anytime W2T, but I think I come across more like hot in that other vid and not the least bit attractive in any sense, more like and I swear I will never, ever understand men EVAH. :confused2:

We should ALL have a beer and celebrate - DM is in the hot seat and it's Australia Day weekend!

View attachment 6549

Don't worry, you cute

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

I thought about this today, and thought, why on earth go to all this trouble to keep DM from giving evidence.....why not just go for it and bluff it out? Then I remembered many, many years ago after I left the SO and over the next few years progressed in a corporate world to having high level meetings. I remember how at first I was a little shocked and realised this was a different world where people applied logic, were not afraid to oppose any statement (no matter what your status), and things had to be thrashed out with logic, facts and evidence, in a civilised way, nothing I had been used to in the SO!

Thinking on DM, I thought he must be petrified. He is no intellectual, he has never really experienced, in adult life, being called to account, people confronting him and questioning him, and he has nothing to fall back on, no way to handle it, no way to know what to do. Even his lawyers are in his employ so he can threaten and bully and demand, but on a witness stand against a clever and articulate lawyer? What chance would he have?

I found it hard and a real transition, luckily I made it, but I was not having to defend everything I stood for and believed in. I am impressed that at least he must know he cannot risk it, or of course the alternative, that he is an abject coward, terrified and thinking on, it is most probably the latter.

Interesting times! Wonderful.

Still

This is an interesting point. In a way DM is just as trapped as the rest of the Sea Org. If he leaves, he no longer has a money and machine to defend him from his crimes, and he would, as you say, have no capacity to interact with people in the outside world in a normal way.

His exposure to the outside world ended when he was a teenager. Under all of his posturing, he must be a very weak man.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

This is an interesting point. ..snip... Under all of his posturing, he must be a very weak man.

And combined with his intense Mania it yields a very accurate clay demo of a Comanome. Ron's clay demo of unconsciousness + (label) DM

 

[still here]

This is an interesting point. In a way DM is just as trapped as the rest of the Sea Org. If he leaves, he no longer has a money and machine to defend him from his crimes, and he would, as you say, have no capacity to interact with people in the outside world in a normal way.

His exposure to the outside world ended when he was a teenager. Under all of his posturing, he must be a very weak man.

Exactly what I meant.

Not only weak, but a very scared little boy. It reminds me of the release of a wild animal, caged all his life with no threat from real wildlife or his own kind and no understanding or experience of how to relate to, or deal with them.

This is a man who bullies, intimidates and emotionally, psychologically and physically abuses when things do not go his way, these are his only tools and enough when operating within his cage. (i.e no one will challenge him as he holds all the power (or has the biggest teeth and claws, and is too mean).
These tools however, will not work when dealing with people who are not under his complete control, or have abilities and intelligence outside of his understanding and experience. (and they are not on his payroll).

Just like his best friend Mr Cruise, when faced with real, sane, logical questions, the only recourse is aggression. The worse scenario would be for him to lose control and become angry, aggressive or abusive, that would make headlines!

However, these tools are not enough ammunition to take on Mr Jeffreys, or a judge, alone, without someone in between he can rant at and bully for being an incompetent failure as in the Mike Rinder situation. DM had no solution to what to do about Sweeney, (apart from avoiding him), except to rant at Rinder and Davies. DM could not apply "bypass and handle", (and again went to extraordinary lengths to "not" be interviewed), which his policies state are the solution when a junior is failing to deliver, because he had no clue what to do.

Right now, DM needs to be scared and avoid being in court at all costs, unfortunately everyone can see that this is his only goal and what his lawyers have been tasked with.

His insanity, ignorance and incompetence are slowly but surely backing him into a corner, and there may be no way out.

Still

 

[Terril park]

I'd have a beer with you anytime W2T, but I think I come across more like hot in that other vid and not the least bit attractive in any sense, more like and I swear I will never, ever understand men EVAH. :confused2:

We should ALL have a beer and celebrate - DM is in the hot seat and it's Australia Day weekend!

View attachment 6549

Shiela you are a hot babe. A smart babe.

You will never understand men?

Maybe I can give you some pointers. I am one.

[email protected]

 

[Gib]

I thought about this today, and thought, why on earth go to all this trouble to keep DM from giving evidence.....why not just go for it and bluff it out? Then I remembered many, many years ago after I left the SO and over the next few years progressed in a corporate world to having high level meetings. I remember how at first I was a little shocked and realised this was a different world where people applied logic, were not afraid to oppose any statement (no matter what your status), and things had to be thrashed out with logic, facts and evidence, in a civilised way, nothing I had been used to in the SO!

Thinking on DM, I thought he must be petrified. He is no intellectual, he has never really experienced, in adult life, being called to account, people confronting him and questioning him, and he has nothing to fall back on, no way to handle it, no way to know what to do. Even his lawyers are in his employ so he can threaten and bully and demand, but on a witness stand against a clever and articulate lawyer? What chance would he have?

I found it hard and a real transition, luckily I made it, but I was not having to defend everything I stood for and believed in. I am impressed that at least he must know he cannot risk it, or of course the alternative, that he is an abject coward, terrified and thinking on, it is most probably the latter.

Interesting times! Wonderful.

Still

I thought about it too. And maybe so did LRH & DM.

DM could end this debacle by simply going into the courtroom, have one of his highest class auditors hook him up to an e-meter while Sugar Ray is asking him questions. And the Judge could see the F/N's while DM answers the questions.

DM could prove to the world that scientology & the e-meter work.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Couple of random thoughts re: some of the good stuff in the comments on this Thread...

1. I'll betcha Y'all dollars against doughnuts that a selected list of Scn Whales have already received "Highly Confidential" briefings that Der Furor Mouse is "under personal attack" by the traitorous SP Rathbun and a Psycho Texas ambulance chaser in a "Red Neck" Texas Courtroom and they are DM's "go to guys" to bankroll the defense by a team of "Top Shelf, well connected and expert lawyers".

2. Besides the fact that DM does not want to, under penalty of perjury, be deposed or cross examined on the witness stand in a court of law, methinks his frame of mind (or lack, thereof) has arrived where El Ron's was in Hisself's latter years to wit, the abject terror of being Publicly being "found out", "losing it" and being incarcerated or institutionalized.

3. This thing is either gonna get "Hard Ball" beyond anything DM can imagine (which is what's so frightening to him) or there's gonna be one Helluva Settlement that's gonna throw out the "Welcome Mat" and open the door for DM to repeatedly and mercilessly be sliced to ribbons by Jeffrey and his ilk as suing DM & Scn becomes the "next big thing" in Plaintiff Litigation. Either way, Jeffrey, IMHO, is mapping out the "Template" and deep down inside, DM knows it.

Face

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

It's a fascinating study in cult sociopathy, this case.

Miscavige has been unexpectedly thrown onto the DEFENSIVE. He does not know how to respond. All he really knows and understands is being on the OFFENSIVE which he learned from his master, Hubbard. Scientologists are only good at attacking because they have no defense.

A large part of Miscavige's attack strategy and capability was neutralized--eviscerated in fact--with the TRO. He dare not run his fair game tricks while warden Waldrip's million watt spotlight is shining directly at him and his deeply "religious" activities.

Again, consider of the stunning simplicity of why Miscavige is terrified to speak in his own defense. There is no defense when you are guilty. And, there is no upside when the full spectrum of things you have done is far worse than what Mosey Rathbun narrowly specified in her complaint.

The ultimate nightmare scenario for a Scientologist--being forced to tell the truth out of session, where you can get off lightly just by grinning and saying you "feel good about it".

Early in this case I made an estimate of what the settlement amount could be if the Rathbuns were willing to sign a global NDA ($5m - $7m). Later, after certain very damaging information came to light I posted a revised number ($10m).

Now, I am projecting that if the Rathbuns were willing to walk away and leave Scientology alone forevermore, the number could be up to $20m. In my opinion Miscavige would sign his name to that check if he could. After all, he didn't contribute one dollar of that money personally, it's all donations earned by other people. And he would still have over a billion dollars cash to play with.

However, he's kind of stuck with the case now, not wanting to appear that he is willing to bail out too early and give a signal to other litigants that he is spooked. So, it's worth wasting another $5m - $10m of parishioner money on lawyers to keep bluffing until they get to the eve of trial, when he still can enter a settlement. And there's always the outside chance that something his dream team cooks up will gain traction.

Miscavige's unchecked hubris and megalomania has brought him to this point. He doesn't know how to get out of it. He got scammed into it (either intentionally or otherwise) by reacting badly to Rathbun openly ridiculing his absolute authority. His famous temper got the best of him, as always, and he flew off the handle and sent a head cam terror squad to camp out in front of Marty's home for those many months. It reminds me of the way Sonny Corleone was undone by an eerily similar Achilles heel.

Sonny was lured to a toll booth on the causeway.

Davie was lured out of his toll booth on the "total cause" way.


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrv1roq_gBw[/video]



Don Corleone:"My wife is crying upstairs. I hear cars coming to the house. Consiglieri of mine, I think you should tell your Don what everyone seems to know."

Tom:"I didn't tell Mama anything. I was about to come up and wake just now and tell you."

Don Corleone:"But you needed a drink first. [Tom nods] And now you've had your drink."

Tom:"They shot Sonny on the causeway. He's dead."

If Don Corleone were alive today, here's what his reply would have been:

Don Corleone: "I pray that what you are saying isn't true--or at least that you are going to tell me that demented little cocksucking midget Miscavige was in the car with Sonny and got whacked out too."

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . .

1. I'll betcha Y'all dollars against doughnuts that a selected list of Scn Whales have already received "Highly Confidential" briefings that Der Furor Mouse is "under personal attack" by the traitorous SP Rathbun . . .

What I'm sure they didn't mention in the confidential briefings:

Marty spent about 30 solid years of his life 24/7 (practically his entire adult life) being meticulously audited to the top of the OT Bridge by the most perfect auditors in the world at the Int Base, CSed by the crème de la crème RTC CSes, ruthlessly trained to the highest levels of homo novus ("new man") through OT delivery skills, personally handled by top-on-the-planet RTC ethics staffs, and graduate-level schooled in the #1 breakthrough administrative science of the past 50 years.


​

How can he turn out like such a psychotic-criminal-out-of-control-dramatizing mess that they're now portraying him as and having to fund to fight?


​

Cognitive dissonance much?

​

 

[lotus]

What I'm sure they didn't mention in the confidential briefings:

Marty spent about 30 solid years of his life 24/7 (practically his entire adult life) being meticulously audited to the top of the OT Bridge by the most perfect auditors in the world at the Int Base, CSed by the crème de la crème RTC CSes, ruthlessly trained to the highest levels of homo novus ("new man") through OT delivery skills, personally handled by top-on-the-planet RTC ethics staffs, and graduate-level schooled in the #1 breakthrough administrative science of the past 50 years.


​

How can he turn out like such a psychotic-criminal-out-of-control-dramatizing mess that they're now portraying him as and having to fund to fight?


​

Cognitive dissonance much?

​

^^^^^^
Ditto


You just made me realize this!
If Marty Rathbun is such a ''criminal'' or ''degraded squirrel''

It shall be a living proof that the highest level tech of $cientology he got, doesn't work at all!
:confused2:

Anyway, at this time
Most of the highest trained or Oatess scientologists are out or have been declared

* cognitive dissonance here''



Apparently, it fails

We are so much espess who weren't espees while they came in the CO$
but later on, 25-30 years later - suddenly became espees and criminal!

Something wrong here

2 possible answers:

Either this CO$ is evils and only create criminals (ennemies)
either good people coming in the CO$, get transformed into rats!

one way or other - CO$ fail at promising a new better world or free human being!
But it succeds at hatred and breaking people and their family!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

No dissonance - for that to happen you have to know who Marty was. You have to know he was a respected top dog in the CofS. I was out a year or more till I started finding out who he was, (Never really heard the name before) and then I had to wade through acres of negative posts here before I, having decided to read some of his posts, woke up and saw I was being 3Pd on him on all sides, and decided to stop contributing to the motion against him. To me it is fascinating, Mr. Evil - the withholder of the skellingtons that would bring down the more evil fearless leader, is now loved by all here in this underdog fight. Or maybe it is his wife that is loved and he's riding on her coat tails. Whatever.

These people give and don't want to know the details. They don't want to suffer through Michael Robertson or Howard Becker's painful IAS briefings. They write a check to shut them up, and show them the door, and return to reading how to improve their golf game.

Mimsey

What I'm sure they didn't mention in the confidential briefings:

Marty spent about 30 solid years of his life 24/7 (practically his entire adult life) being meticulously audited to the top of the OT Bridge by the most perfect auditors in the world at the Int Base, CSed by the crème de la crème RTC CSes, ruthlessly trained to the highest levels of homo novus ("new man") through OT delivery skills, personally handled by top-on-the-planet RTC ethics staffs, and graduate-level schooled in the #1 breakthrough administrative science of the past 50 years.


​

How can he turn out like such a psychotic-criminal-out-of-control-dramatizing mess that they're now portraying him as and having to fund to fight?


​

Cognitive dissonance much?

​

 

[Enthetan]

what is a double check!?

For those whose first language is not American english, to "double check" is to inspect in a new unit of time what you're making a statement about, in order to verify that your statement is correct.

 

[Enthetan]

I'm not gonna take the time to detail all the idiosyncrasies, ins & outs and subtleties of "Texan Culture" and "Money, Power and Influence" in Texas but, for what it's worth, here's my very brief "Take":

Texas IS a "Business Friendly" State...That's why Texas is booming while most of the rest of the U.S. is still in a recession.

Texas also IS an "Individual Rights" State...That's why many of the largest judgments against Fortune 100 & 500 Companies vs. John Q. Citizen have been handed down in Texas "Country" Courts and have been upheld against Appeal.

Texas also IS a "Freedom of Religion" State...But, Church Leader = Corporate CEO are not a fungible concept in the Texan Psyche.

Texas IS, in many ways, a "Money talks, Bullshit walks" State...However, the dynamic of Power and Influence of "Money" in Texas has modifying elements, such as lying, cheating and stealing which are highly detested and heavily penalized (if caught). If you got your dough from questionable, sleazy or underhanded means it's less "valuable" and sometimes even "worthless" to most Texans.

Texas IS a Historically "Family, Friends and Footprint" State...Texans, most of the time, "Hang Together" with "Their Own" (figuratively and literally, LOL). What sorta Folks your Family is and how you treat your family, who and what your friends are and how you treat your friends and what your "footprint" is and that of your family, friends and ancestors makes your Money more valuable to the point that there are many Texans of "modest means" that their true "Texan Wealth" is far more Powerful and Influential than many Multimillionaires. Money coming to you from "dubious" sources can lower the value of your Money and lessen your "Texan Wealth".

Texas IS a "what you have done" State...The Money of organizations and individuals that have a History of doing good things for the economy, employing people, being good citizens, treating folks the "right way" and doing things the "Texan Way" is FAR more valuable than a Johny Come Lately Self Affected Show Boat Blowhard BS Artist with a fat wallet looking to "buy their way" into the "Club".

Texas IS an "Opportunity" State...For the most part, Texans welcome new Folks with open arms and extend to them the opportunity to find their way, proof & prove their metal and build a life. However, opportunistic "outsiders' usually get handed their hat pretty damn quick.

Texas IS not "Utopia", far from it...But overall, its a pretty damn good place to live, raise a family, work and pursue happiness, and most Texans are real serious about keeping it that way.

Face

PS: I left out the part about Texan's History of standing up to Foreign Powers (like Washington, D.C.) as I don't want to get into a political argument.

To give some reality to people outside the US of just how different Texas may be from their own country, Texas is also one of the few states in the US where citizens are legally allowed to fight back against police who use unnecessary force.

Texas Penal Code - Section 9.31. Self-Defense

(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:

(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts
to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;
and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself
against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use
of greater force than necessary.​

In other words, if a police officer, without justification and against an unresisting person, uses unnecessary violence, then the victim may defend himself. Under section 9.33, a bystander may defend another who is being subjected to unjustified force. Under 9.32, to the extent that the victim believes he is in danger of death or serious injury, the victim may be legally defended by using deadly force (e.g., shooting the officer).

Where else in the world is that the case?

 

[TG1]

I've just multiplied some obvious budget numbers. In the first 20 weeks of Monique v. Miscavige, Miscavige has run up legal bills of at least $10 million.

If this goes to trial, his average weekly legal fees will double. And at some point, as HH has said, those fees are going to impress even Miscavige.

As Face has pointed out, Miscavige faces a worse court -- the court of whale opinion. And there's yet another court he faces -- the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. I don't know specifically how this case could interact with any issues they are now having with the CoS. But Monique Yingling would know.

Miscavige certainly can't step down as pope until this case is ended, because he'd then have no authority to control his defense and fewer resources to defend himself.

If his appellate lawyers cannot get him off by arguing prior case law, the only way Miscavige can hope to survive this case is to settle it. He cannot be deposed. He cannot let this case go to trial.

He's in a pickle. A real pickle.

TG1

 

[Lone Star]

For those whose first language is not American english, to "double check" is to inspect in a new unit of time what you're making a statement about, in order to verify that your statement is correct.

Yes. There's also this double check.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxKJmxVt2y4

 

[Enthetan]

I'd have a beer with you anytime W2T, but I think I come across more like hot in that other vid and not the least bit attractive in any sense, more like and I swear I will never, ever understand men EVAH. :confused2:

A lot of men are just drawn to passionate women. Even passionately angry. It adds spice to life, like a pinch of cayenne pepper.