Heaven From Hell

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
You know when I was in Scientology I had hundreds of questions , observations of apparent contradictions or undesirable corrolaries in the insane cult indoctrination , er " scriptures " and had to spend a lot of time - thousands of hours - getting mind control er " word clearing " and thought reform er " ethics handlings " and did hundreds of confession until collapse of self for rebuilding er " O/W write-ups " and reframing and confusing reality to guaranty hypnotic submission er " ethics conditions ".

I was often sent to the thought reformer er " Ethics Officer " and said to be utterly confusing as I found contradiction where it should and could not be - despite passing checkouts and being able to state policy verbatim without comm lag and do demos and give definitions without comm lag for hundreds of Scientology and small common words and rare English words .

Staff would be baffled as I could rattle off the definition of of , and , such , why or that in compliance with Hubbard's doctrine but was known as the most pessimistic Scientologist as I often resisted the certainty that others gained with far less study and work .


They chalked it up to a lack of upper levels or PTSness holding me back despite a far higher education level and more familiarity with the doctrine than most seaoned staff as I on my own read about twenty five basic books many years before the basics program ever came out and read several hundred Pls and HCOBs not required on any checksheets - just to " learn " .

Really the "study technology " functioned as a from of self-hypnosis combined with thought reform to cause habitual trances that induce euphoria and great relaxation even while alternatively producing anxiety and tremendous stress on the victim's mind .

It was a rollercoaster that makes one FEEL there is something just beyond reach to grasp - that never materializes .


I would be told even with " all the great discoveries and revelations of Scientology " I STILL held something back and could not " come uptone " and " get my TRs in " .


Well , now we know I was resisting total hypnotic submission but eventually gave in .







I am amused now to see the " lack of enthusiasm " as resisting being remade into another identity - despite it eventually over decades very gradually and slowly succeeding .


It is okay - I got better ( I hope !!!! ) .





But , I have often stressed all the negative sides of being in Scientology for myself and thousands of others - and will continue to do so .


My ultimate goals with this I hope have far more to do with extricating my mind from Hubbard's traps and helping others to do the same and even leaving something useful for " those who come after " than painting Hub and DM as insane for fun or revenge .

I may not state this ( to me ) obvious idea nearly enough as it is almost always on my mind when I write posts as a primary motivation and consideration on what to write , who to write for and why to even bother but I realize it is not always stated openly or even implied : The people who are in and will be in Scientology and who come out and become exes and those who want to get them out or inform them about the truth of Scientology are in the overwhelming majority in my opinion very good and decent people who in no way deserve the abuse , lies , exploitation , violations , alterations , human rights nullification , and fraud they receive in and even sometimes after Scientology.

They need and should get any and all possible assistance to find the truth about Scientology , Hubbard , his cult , and the methods he and it use to do the damage that is done .

It is simply the decent thing to do .

If I from my perspective took what I worked to learn and continue to learn and walked away and said " Oh well , I got mine - so y'all are ass out "

And left knowing what I know without lifting a finger to help others I would be a total piece of shit and there is no other way to call it .



It simply is not an option because I know there are great people on the other side of this working very hard AND deluded victims inside trying to be good and figure out " why " they cannot get the gains promised and "clear " the planet i.e. " improve conditions across the world and save mankind for eternity " - even if it is a pure fraud and total lie with no workable technology EVER .


See , a great byproduct of being in the cult is meeting great people who devote their lives to helping others - I can assure you many auditors and Sups and staff and SO members and even devoted public work very hard to honestly help others unselfishly but get bent and twisted by the insanity of Hubbard and his methods to do evil and not even see it .


Scientology is called the cult of greed but almost all Scientologists lose far more money than they ever get from being in and would do much better financially if they walked away at virtually every point in their Scientology career but persist for spiritual and mental gains that never come .


They are good people doing very , very evil acts - largely unknowingly .


I cherish the memories of their good character and marvel at the people like Gerry Armstrong , Tony Ortega , Jon Atack , Arie Lerma , Tory Magoo and hundreds more who stand up to the cult in many , many ways at great personal risk with little or no pay and free hassles and OSA " pranks " - really crimes and character assassination to drive people into insanity and suicide .


That is a true gain from Scientology : a realization that those who stand up and fight ARE the reaffirmation of the goodness of man .

They simply CHOOSE a long hard fight because it is right , never easy and often unappreciated .



They get attacked by the cult and indies , and exes often unfairly due to projection , denial , negative transference and dissonance and keep coming back despite that .



It is like the people who work in rehab and take verbal abuse and lashing out and ignore it to help patients regardless of the patient's lack of gratitude and understanding .


There are a lot of great people I have met in and after Scientology that I would not have without the cult and the mad man .

I certainly would not have understood a fraction of what I study now on recovery and the nature of mind control without my " hands on experience " to draw from .





I want to as much as possible separate my pre-cult identity , reclaim it AND integrate the TRUE positive experiences of both being in the cult - reframed to be honest and not mentally unhealthy and delusional - and know there are a lot of positives to add .


I have met so many great people and got to regain relationships and build new ones .


I hope every ex gets something similar if they desire it .



YOU guys are largely the real gains the cult offers - once the lies are thrown off and the damage untangled from .

See , the cult makes enemies with common experiences and needs to draw on , so why not take the wreckage they left and build something worthwhile ?

We are already here ?


This is somewhere where disagreement is allowed , we are not telling on each other and breaking up families , we are not valuing each other only by the size of donations and degree of submission to madmen - we can choose other ways .

We can make jokes , come and go as we please and are here at will .


You know , it at times ALMOST seems like an adult relationship with consideration and equality ...what a new and novel idea .


This will take a lot of getting used to . :coolwink:

PS this is a call back to a Million Years in Hell and kind of sequel :

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?36979-A-MILLION-YEARS-IN-HELL



I hope everyone who comes out can see no matter what abuse trauma and degradation Scientolgy did and how much it takes in time , loved ones and money - YOU still matter and can attain some happiness in life and make use of the time you still have and the people you know and may yet come to know .



I have been told we have a great and rare opportunity to in a socially acceptable way almost completely start over with a new identity and beliefs and life and am coming to appreciate that more and more .


I also think we should appreciate any value in true things we learn and the genuinely good people we meet both in and out because of and despite Scientology.


And regarding disconnection - that insane cult practice simply has to go as it ranks with racism , witch burning , stoning gays and many other hate crimes as totally worthless , completely inexcusable and utterly inhuman .

Even it won't keep us apart forever - Bulgravia airlines book a flight for one . Tick Tock .

The only reason to stop DM is because the people he hurts , has hurt and will hurt matter - not for his sorry ass.


YOU guys and the ones who will come out and even all the victims inside are the closest thing to paradise Scientology offers : not blue sky or counterfeit dreams but real and actually worth caring about and fighting for .


For everyone out here who has people they love with them I am happy and grateful .

And for everyone alone or missing loved ones and feeling like your life is shattered and your world torn to bits I am sympathetic and working to help in several ways and DEFINITELY not nearly the first in this or alone by any means .

At this point I feel the vast majority in this conflict speak and act against the cult and the fight must be continued to be won .

So , I appreciate all the great people and efforts they make .

Somebody may just post a joke about DM or Hub that gets a lurker to wonder why or what is being said .

They can protest or tell some one in a grocery store to stay away from Scientology and save a family .

There are millions of actions - posting and letting a friend on the fence know what the tech really does or who Hub was and helping that person stay away and be free .

Sharing a link to Lermanet.com or the Bunker on Facebook or making a video .








The death of a thousand paper cuts has hurt the cult - hopefully irreparably but the fight is not yet won and should be continued with great effort.



But this post is to say thanks and that I and others can and do get a lot from what we do have and not just dwell on what we have lost.


It is also to try to give a small comfort to those who have lost so much and let them know no matter how many people the cult takes they are not alone .


I hope everyone can find positive aspects of their present and future and find decency and humanity despite the damnation and ruin hub and his cult have given us .


Please share any similar ideas or feelings you guys have on this and I know this time of year is particularly tough for some folks and it is totally undeserved for them but unfortunately a reality FOR NOW .

Thanks .
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?


Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange a walk on part in the world for a lead role in a cage?


I remember sitting in a disused sports hall with a "Closed for Repairs" sign on the door, which was being used as a dormitory for my student worker's brigade, while a Russian guitarist played the chords and we Americans on the gang sang the words for that song, while a group of Cuban students looked on bemusedly. It seemed to describe the Soviet experience of the Gorbachev era - the waking to find all of their idols not only had feet of clay, but were entirely made of clay.

In many ways, the community of exes reminds me of the Gen-X cohort in the late Soviet era.
 
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George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Mockingbird, take a break. You can beat your head forever against the wall that scientology has built up to no avail. Thank you for your enlightenment unto what the agenda is that the mechanics of scientology have brought all those under the influence of the cult but your attention belongs to you, not them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5YyEOzNEc
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I remember sitting in a disused sports hall with a "Closed for Repairs" sign on the door, which was being used as a dormitory for my student worker's brigade, while a Russian guitarist played the chords and we Americans on the gang sang the words for that song, while a group of Cuban students looked on bemusedly. It seemed to describe the Soviet experience of the Gorbachev era - the waking to find all of their idols not only had feet of clay, but were entirely made of clay.

In many ways, the community of exes reminds me of the Gen-X cohort in the late Soviet era.


"Wind of Change" by the Scorpions (about the fall of the Soviet Union or Glasnost)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgMDTRPqXbk


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_of_Change_(Scorpions_song)
 
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Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Wind of Change" by the Scorpions (about the fall of the Soviet Union)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgMDTRPqXbk

Another strong memory- 2 actually - associated with that song. The first is walking past Gorky Park, and loudspeakers were playing this song. We went into the park and found a "Tir" booth - target shooting - with crossbows. I remember thinking about the irony of being in Gorky Park as the Scorpions sang about it and Moskva. (Then the girls in our party proceeded to spoil our aim by plucking off leg hairs as we steadied the bow to shoot :hysterical:).

The other strong memory is sitting in a bar in Kaunas. Bars were a new thing, then. It was pretty brightly lit and tastefully decorated for a bar, more a lounge, I guess. A friend of mine from the GDR was afraid to do a currency deal, but being a post-doc, she could not afford to not deal with the mafia - they were offering 10X the legal going rate. So a mate and I were waiting for the mafiosi to show up, and I was drinking fruit juice (one does not, no matter how much one trusts the individual, drink alcohol during a deal like that), while that song came on. As the final bars ended, the mafiosi came over to our table, and 30 seconds later, I was counting a roll of currency under the table, and that was that. I pocketed the cash, he pocketed the Deutchmarks, we shook hands, and we went our separate ways.

I made my way back to the dorm and then I started drinking. :yes:

Oh yes, one more memory - Moscow stadium, 1989, Moscow Music Peace Festival, seeing them perform that song live.
 
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JackStraw

Silver Meritorious Patron
Perhaps I am suffering from an American-centric point of view, but I always thought (heard)

Not
Did you exchange a walk on part in the world for a lead role in a cage? but:

Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role n a cage.

I thought it was a reference to Vietnam; did you exchange going to Vietnam for a "lead role"in a jail cell as a protester of the war?

Clarifications gratefully received.

Jack
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Perhaps I am suffering from an American-centric point of view, but I always thought (heard)

Not
Did you exchange a walk on part in the world for a lead role in a cage? but:

Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role n a cage.

I thought it was a reference to Vietnam; did you exchange going to Vietnam for a "lead role"in a jail cell as a protester of the war?

Clarifications gratefully received.

Jack

Now that you mention it, I see both variations in the lyrics on the Net. I always heard it as "world", because I saw the song as being about Floyd and their dance with the Devil called Fame as a metaphor for modern society's trading of commercial wealth for simpler and less destructive ways of living on our planet, not as an anti-war song.

"Wind of Change", on the other hand, was pretty unambiguous. :yes:

That was the anthem for Gen-X in Europe. I mean, people knew about the song here in the US, but it did not connect in the way it did in the DDR, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Russia when I was there. The Scorpions being a GDR band helped a lot, I think, but the Berlin Wall was a footnote about the Airlift in history classes to most Americans of my generation. It was reality to the East, and its fall was comparable to the fall of the European Monarchies in 1919 in historical importance.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
And how we found
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

'...All the songs are encouraging me, I imagine that I write them for me, it's to encourage myself not to accept a lead role in a cage, but to go on demanding to myself that I keep auditioning for a walk on part in the war, because that's where I want to be. I want to be in the trenches, I don't want to be in the headquarters or sitting in a hotel somewhere, I want to be... Engaged... Probably, I might say, in a way that my father would approve of'. - Roger Waters
 
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Lone Star

Crusader
Perhaps I am suffering from an American-centric point of view, but I always thought (heard)

Not
Did you exchange a walk on part in the world for a lead role in a cage? but:

Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role n a cage.

I thought it was a reference to Vietnam; did you exchange going to Vietnam for a "lead role"in a jail cell as a protester of the war?

Clarifications gratefully received.

Jack

That was always my understanding of these lyrics too.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Sing me a song, you're a singer
Do me a wrong, you're a bringer of evil
The Devil is never a maker
The less that you give, you're a taker
So it's on and on and on, it's Heaven and Hell, oh well

The lover of life's not a sinner
The ending is just a beginner
The closer you get to the meaning
The sooner you'll know that you're dreaming
So it's on and on and on, oh it's on and on and on
It goes on and on and on, Heaven and Hell....

....Well if it seems to be real, it's illusion
For every moment of truth, there's confusion in life....

.....They say that life's a carousel
Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well
The world is full of Kings and Queens
Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams
It's Heaven and Hell, oh well
And they'll tell you black is really white
The moon is just the sun at night
And when you walk in golden halls
You get to keep the gold that falls
It's Heaven and Hell, oh no!
Fool, fool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUjUIP2ugG4
 
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