Hi Mick,
No, you don't become an expert in Scientology by being on this board.
But one can get pretty soon an idea on how much charge exists on the subject.
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Heavy critics similar as church members
- Thread starter newlife
- Start date
Hi Mick,
No, you don't become an expert in Scientology by being on this board.
But one can get pretty soon an idea on how much charge exists on the subject.
.
.
Veda
Sponsor
First, define "charge," so we know exactly what you mean.
Then, tell us, what would be the attitude toward Scientology if there were no charge on the subject?
Here's an outline of the subject (below the video) - in case you overlooked anything from your ivory tower.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=552212&postcount=9
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
OP, must lurk moar, read more, and try not to compare a critic of a gang of thieves basing their insanity on the drugged-out ramblings of a madman, to the thing they are critisising~ there is no real logical subject here imho. I suppose one could temper their anger at all the illegalities and abuses by the cult with a small grain of 'It ain't all bad.', but why would you do that? Hey, Godwin time! ~ Hitler liked doggies, so in such light, is it still wrong to call him an insane, murdering, psychopathic blight on humanity? No? Well same goes for Hubbard and his hierarchy.
If you found some redeeming quality in the spewing crap of 'LRon the demented grifter', well goody for you, but you'll find yourself in an ever shrinking circle of agreement as more and more is learned by people from the experiences of those who have been victimised by the presented illusion.
Who needs to be an 'expert' on scientology to know its a bunch of horsey pucks? Only takes a bit of real reading and a smidgen of common sense.
Apologists attempting tempering of critical thought is indeed amusing though~
If you found some redeeming quality in the spewing crap of 'LRon the demented grifter', well goody for you, but you'll find yourself in an ever shrinking circle of agreement as more and more is learned by people from the experiences of those who have been victimised by the presented illusion.
Who needs to be an 'expert' on scientology to know its a bunch of horsey pucks? Only takes a bit of real reading and a smidgen of common sense.
Apologists attempting tempering of critical thought is indeed amusing though~
Freeminds
Bitter defrocked apostate
"You're either with us or against us," is a destructive position to take, because it reinforces positions, and makes people less likely to concede that they may have been wrong, however untenable their position may be. Pride is an important factor, and scoring points off current Scientologists may be amusing but it doesn't help them to get free.
I try really hard to find common ground, every time I speak to somebody who's still 'in'. I talk about recipes, travel, things happening in the wider world, family... seldom anything about Hubbard. That just isn't productive.
I have tried to keep an open mind about LRH, but here's a funny thing: Ron himself didn't want me to do that.
"Never permit an 'open-minded' approach," he said in HCOPL of 7th February 1965... I'm sure you know that one; it's the "We'd rather have you dead than incapable" bulletin that praises the "fixed dedicated glare" that all good Scientologists should acquire.
Ron wanted his people to feel embattled, surrounded by enemies. This causes them to cluster together all the more willingly, and ignore the privations they face every day, because they are "at war." (This is the phoney war that caused Susan Meister to commit suicide...) The notion that critics of Scientology are thugs for whom everything a Scientologist does is automatically bad... is simply what LRH wanted people to think.
Despite his appeal to cull the open-minded from Scientology's ranks, on my side of the disagreement, I'll keep on being as open-minded as I possibly can. I study the public statements of the CofS with care... such as the Volunteer Minister reports or the recent photo of LRH's alleged war medals. I study what journalists write about about CofS, too. I study both sides - because I'm free to do so.
I am also open-minded enough to be interested in Scientologists substantiating their claims. Clear, stably exterior with full perception, OT, whatever: I'm sure a university department somewhere would be delighted to play host to a demonstration of Scientology 'Super Power'.
Hmm... not today? Ah well: that's CofS' problem, not mine.
I try really hard to find common ground, every time I speak to somebody who's still 'in'. I talk about recipes, travel, things happening in the wider world, family... seldom anything about Hubbard. That just isn't productive.
I have tried to keep an open mind about LRH, but here's a funny thing: Ron himself didn't want me to do that.
"Never permit an 'open-minded' approach," he said in HCOPL of 7th February 1965... I'm sure you know that one; it's the "We'd rather have you dead than incapable" bulletin that praises the "fixed dedicated glare" that all good Scientologists should acquire.
Ron wanted his people to feel embattled, surrounded by enemies. This causes them to cluster together all the more willingly, and ignore the privations they face every day, because they are "at war." (This is the phoney war that caused Susan Meister to commit suicide...) The notion that critics of Scientology are thugs for whom everything a Scientologist does is automatically bad... is simply what LRH wanted people to think.
Despite his appeal to cull the open-minded from Scientology's ranks, on my side of the disagreement, I'll keep on being as open-minded as I possibly can. I study the public statements of the CofS with care... such as the Volunteer Minister reports or the recent photo of LRH's alleged war medals. I study what journalists write about about CofS, too. I study both sides - because I'm free to do so.
I am also open-minded enough to be interested in Scientologists substantiating their claims. Clear, stably exterior with full perception, OT, whatever: I'm sure a university department somewhere would be delighted to play host to a demonstration of Scientology 'Super Power'.
Hmm... not today? Ah well: that's CofS' problem, not mine.
Good point, Veda.
Charge can be defined as “misemotion, stemming from past experiences.”
If one has no charge connected to the subject of Scientology, he could simply look at data and differentiate between fact and opinion, he could see positive as well as negative things.
In other words, he could have a balanced look on the subject, not coloured by his own past experiences.
If he reads the word “Registrar”, he doesn’t get instantly an unpleasant feeling.
Also, his attitude towards things like untruths and abuses in one religion would not be much different from his attitude towards untruths and abuses in other religions like for example christianity or the muslim religion.
He wouldn't heavily fight these things in one religion and never say a word about similar things in another religion.
Any idea how much untruths and abuses there are in other religions?
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Veda
Sponsor
I'm sure the people who read and post here have views and concerns about other subjects, but this Message Board is about Scientology which, incidentally, I don't regard as an actual sincere "religion." The "religion angle," as Hubbard called it, came about for tax and PR reasons.
Tell me, how long have you been a Scientologist?
Tell me, how long have you been a Scientologist?
Religion or no religion is both fine with me. It's just a label.
I'm a Scientologist for 17 years and 1 year in a Ron's Org.
One of the first things I received in the Ron's Org was some auditing to get rid of the charge connected with the church.
That was great.
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Freeminds
Bitter defrocked apostate
An absence of charge suggests that the best person to evaluate Scientology is a journalist, a juror, a judge, a lawmaker... or in other words, a 'wog'.
Yet Scientology tends to come off very badly where it rubs up against the mainstream, doesn't it? The wider world has a rather different understanding of 'fact' and 'truth' than the Scientology microcosm.
In my comment I mentioned "charge connected to Scientology."
Who says that a journalist, a juror, a judge or a lawmaker has no charge connected to the subject of Scientology?
And who says that the an absence of charge is the only prerequisite for being able to evaluate properly?
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Veda
Sponsor
Religion or no religion is both fine with me. It's just a label.
I'm a Scientologist for 17 years and 1 year in a Ron's Org.
One of the first things I received in the Ron's Org was some auditing to get rid of the charge connected with the church.
That was great.
I'm happy for you.
If you're a Scientologist, you're mainly concerned with following LRH's closely taped path to OT and Total Freedom, and motivating others to do the same.
What's your next step on the Bridge?
Because I like the Scientology philosophy and auditing very much, TG1.
I personally got much gain out of it.
I understand that people have had very bad experiences in the church.
But it think it would be a pity if the whole philosophy and technology would get lost because of the behaviour of the church.
So I like to get my voice heard too, so that people will become more able to differentiate between Scientology the philosophy and Scientology the church.
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By the way, Veda, I wouldn't call it "Total Freedom".
For me "total freedom" would mean sitting all alone in one universe without anything else in it.
Not nice...
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Veda
Sponsor
The "Scientology philosophy" is pretty screwed up too.
Veda
Sponsor
You're using a bunch of evasive and manipulative Scientology PR gimmicks on this Message Board. That's not nice either.
Could be, Veda.
Just like the christian religion and the muslim religion and many other religions.
But I'm not interested in how screwed up it is.
I'm interested in those things that I can find true and which I can use to help myself and others.
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Freeminds
Bitter defrocked apostate
You might be out, soon, then. Good luck with it.
BTW, Ron lied. This hardly ever happens. Even Rex Fowler didn't manage it, and he applied R2-45.
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