Heber Jentzsch Told His Brother: "I'll Never Get Out of Here Alive"

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Well, in different situations some people lean more towards forgiveness and others more to punishment. I'm not saying either approach is superior - sometimes both are warranted. I just prefer that punishment is decided in a court of law rather than at the whim of a self-appointed tyrant.
Agree.

I like the concept of 'atonement' in justice situations, inner or outer, but there are some evil fucks I'd just as soon got walked off a pier...
And for others, hm, an isolated Island of Stupids, let them fight it out?

Just my unforgiving 0.02$ opinion.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Actually maybe not the whole notion. I do think we "reap what we sow" and "what goes around comes around" but I also think that bad things happen to good people. I think good people can be lied to, tricked, destroyed and ruined utterly. I think everyone has dirty laundry, and although I am not a Christian I have some sympathy for the concept of letting those "without sin" cast the first stone. I also believe in accountability and justice, however. I suppose the whole thing's a bit of a mess that I have never thought through properly.

Justice is a big word. We want it, but we can't always decide what it is.

Here's a quote I like which seems relevant to what we're discussing.


"Our search for such [moral] principles can start with . . . the unconditional imperative to acknowledge every person as a person. If we ask for the contents given by this absolute, we find, first, something negative—the command not to treat a person as a thing. This seems little, but it is much. It is the core of the principle of justice."

- Paul Tillich
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Justice is a big word. We want it, but we can't always decide what it is.

Here's a quote I like which seems relevant to what we're discussing.


"Our search for such [moral] principles can start with . . . the unconditional imperative to acknowledge every person as a person. If we ask for the contents given by this absolute, we find, first, something negative—the command not to treat a person as a thing. This seems little, but it is much. It is the core of the principle of justice."

- Paul Tillich

Thank you, Smilla. I like that. There are so many premises I have never examined that I was indoctrinated with as a child or during Scientology. Nearly 20 years after leaving it is still an ongoing process for me. I have a largely unexamined life.
 
Thank you, Smilla. I like that. There are so many premises I have never examined that I was indoctrinated with as a child or during Scientology. Nearly 20 years after leaving it is still an ongoing process for me. I have a largely unexamined life.

Me, too Purple. I thank everyone on this message board for helping in my (our) road out of the madness. :yes:
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Thank you, Smilla. I like that. There are so many premises I have never examined that I was indoctrinated with as a child or during Scientology. Nearly 20 years after leaving it is still an ongoing process for me. I have a largely unexamined life.

Carl Jung said: "Always resolving, never resolved."

We are all works in progress, none of us better than the other.


 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Carl Jung said: "Always resolving, never resolved."

We are all works in progress, none of us better than the other.



:yes: One thing that really helps is being exposed to a variety of different perspectives. I have found that on other message boards also. Over time my opinions shift as I consider the different arguments. This is what I like best about university also - being presented with ideas that are new to me and the ensuing discussions with other students.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
The Village Voice has a fabulous article. Heber actually rang his brother after the last article!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...tology_heber_jentzsch_calls_brother_david.php

David said that not only has he been told by Scientology workers at the base that he could not talk to his brother, but that if he attempted to come see Heber, he would be turned away.

I just talked to David again, who says our story produced a very surprising result: this morning, Heber called him and angrily berated him for talking to the press.

"I'm glad that it happened," David tells us, "because it got him out of his cage to talk to me."

I asked David, who lives in Utah, how this morning's phone call went, and this is how he described it:

"He called me and said some of these things in your article aren't true. I said you damn well know that they're true." More at link.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Cowering church is cowering. PR IS their Achilles heel. Fucking bullies.
Heber calling his brother makes it so obvious! Haha, stupid cult!
They expose themselves with their reactions but they have no choice.
All the press calls for their damage-control-tek, which is all fail.

I can't wait to see the midget's new program for celebs to rally for church PR!
Disaster pending.... :yes:
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
I just reject the whole notion of "pulling it in". Anyone who believes that is still thinking like a Scientologist IMHO.

The karma/pulling it in business has always existed apart from the Cof$, and has been stated numerous ways, as in "What goes around comes around." and "You reap what you sow." and lots of other folksy expressions that mean pretty much the same thing. It's just that the Cof$ has taken it to another level, to use as a means of shifting blame away from the Cof$.

Pete
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
It's really hard for me to feel sorry for Heber now. His son is gone. His wife is gone. What more can they do except kill him? And he's still doing their work for them. He should tell them to get stuffed.

Perhaps he could explain why he didn't invite his own brother or the rest of his family to his son's funeral? Normal, eh? Normal for Scientology maybe.
 
Well, in different situations some people lean more towards forgiveness and others more to punishment. I'm not saying either approach is superior - sometimes both are warranted. I just prefer that punishment is decided in a court of law rather than at the whim of a self-appointed tyrant.

Yeah. I agree with you on that. I'm mostly forgiving, but the recent events of Mr Jentzch telling his brother to not talk to the media any more really got my ire. I feel sorry for Heber. He's a lost soul who we know where he is, if that makes any sense.
 
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