Hell aboard the Apollo 1968

AnonKat

Crusader
Any "Thetans" onboard who were on that boat in 1968 or any son and daughters. Of course all the relevant links, videos ar welcome again or links to other threads or Blogs. Preferably about 1968 or a little after say 1973.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-age-of-reason-recommended-reading/#comment-47164

martyrathbun09 | September 4, 2010 at 12:22 am | Reply Thanks. I appreciate your concerns, a lot of that will be addressed in my book where there is room for laying down some context. I don’t go there in this forum, because out of context it would be not be fair. There is plenty of “bashing” going on across the net. And your reference to Whitfield is very appropriate on that score. I don’t give a lot of credit to her more dramatic stories. Context: demeanor and drama in her delivery of them, and the fact she tried to make a cool billion dollars off the church. Among other things.

Karen#1 | September 4, 2010 at 12:36 am | Reply There are a few on the Internet that hammer and pound about overboarding and chain locker Incs.
This is so EMBELLISHED and BLOWN out of PROPORTION.
We who were on the Flagship Apollo in the 1970s never saw any such thing.
I didn’t.
All former Apollo crew I am in touch with didn’t.
I will guess that Mike Rinder also saw no such thing.

These incidents occurred in the 1968 era for barely 2 months and while they were unfortunate ad should not have occurred, they were by no means endemic or part of the culture of the Apollo with LRH.

Cat Daddy | September 4, 2010 at 12:53 am | Reply Did you know Mc Master ?

no name | September 4, 2010 at 3:47 am | Reply Karen, can you briefly describe what “occurred in the 1968 era for barely 2 months”? A lot of us would appreciate a chance to as-is this generality of hell aboard the ship. I mean it. It would help dead-agent the ones who spout plausible slander.

scotsman.jpg
 
Last edited:

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Posted by AnonKat, taken from Marty Rathbun's blog;

Karen#1 | September 4, 2010 at 12:36 am | Reply There are a few on the Internet that hammer and pound about overboarding and chain locker Incs.
This is so EMBELLISHED and BLOWN out of PROPORTION.
We who were on the Flagship Apollo in the 1970s never saw any such thing.
I didn’t.
All former Apollo crew I am in touch with didn’t.
I will guess that Mike Rinder also saw no such thing.

This is so EMBELLISHED and BLOWN out of PROPORTION.

So , Karen, in the 70s you never saw any such thing? Strange that as how pray tell do you embelish and blow out of proportion the death of someone who supposedly committed suicide whilst shooting herself and yet she was so happy, she wrote and told her parents so. This happened in 1971 on board the Apollo.So ,maybe you didn't see it personally, but it did happen. Here is the poor Father of Susan Meister.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp6uh_mKLbA&feature=related

and read;

http://whyaretheydead.info/susan_meister/index.html
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, I was on board from January - May (including Liability Cruise) and from September till early Jan 1969 and have written full accounts of what occured.

Google PAULSRABBIT and read the stuff for yourself.

I have written about chain locker incidents as directly observed (Derek Green, Bill Deitch) as well as being present when the overboard ceremonies started. In fact I was with Hubbard when he first announced that overboards for out tech would occur. This practice spread to include punishment for any general "infraction" by staff.

I have no doubt they continued after the ship left Corfu, but I was not there.

They continued in various forms in the AO's for punishment of out tech for the Cl VIII students. At Edinburgh it involved being put in a bath of cold water.

Quite probably such relative "newbies" such as Marty Rathburn had no experience of these events as they would have enrolled long after the REAL Sea Org had metamorphasised into the cult monster it has become.

Dart
 
Well, I was on board from January - May (including Liability Cruise) and from September till early Jan 1969 and have written full accounts of what occured.

Google PAULSRABBIT and read the stuff for yourself.

I have written about chain locker incidents as directly observed (Derek Green, Bill Deitch) as well as being present when the overboard ceremonies started. In fact I was with Hubbard when he first announced that overboards for out tech would occur. This practice spread to include punishment for any general "infraction" by staff.

I have no doubt they continued after the ship left Corfu, but I was not there.

They continued in various forms in the AO's for punishment of out tech for the Cl VIII students. At Edinburgh it involved being put in a bath of cold water.

Quite probably such relative "newbies" such as Marty Rathburn had no experience of these events as they would have enrolled long after the REAL Sea Org had metamorphasised into the cult monster it has become.

Dart

I think you are selling Marty Rathburn short,

just because Marty never met Hubbard doesn't necessarily mean he is not aware of just how much of an abusive douchebag Hubbard was.

Marty may not be the sharpest tool in the shed,

but you'd have to be a flat out moron not to know just how dysfunctional of a person Hubbard was since it is very well documented by eye-witnesses.

Marty is in business to make money, and being honest about Hubbard is very bad for business.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I think you are selling Marty Rathburn short,

just because Marty never met Hubbard doesn't necessarily mean he is not aware of just how much of an abusive douchebag Hubbard was.

Marty may not be the sharpest tool in the shed,

but you'd have to be a flat out moron not to know just how dysfunctional of a person Hubbard was since it is very well documented by eye-witnesses.

Marty is in business to make money, and being honest about Hubbard is very bad for business.

No, Rather to salvage the subject of Scientology. I agree with Alonzo on the Changes Hubbard made himself reversing the original dirtection of the subject
 
Last edited:

AnonKat

Crusader
What is there to salvage?

Better yet what does he have to offer, other than trolling Miscavige?

Hard Trolling Miscavige is very good, that I support.

With the Salvage thing. Eventually it comes down to a matter of choiche and Taste.

If people want to live their live a certain way they can do so within the law.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
THREAD REPAIR

John McMaster: SCIENTOLOGY VICTIM

John McMaster, a dedicated $cientologist in the 1960s, was proclaimed by founder L. Ron Hubbard to be the "world's first real Clear." He was a charismatic promoter and lecturer, and as a key aide to Hubbard contributed greatly to his early financial success. He was the chosen ambassador of $cientology, lending to it his personal image of competence, gentleness and love. Among his accomplishments for Hubbard was the creation of the Power Processes - Grade 7 on the $cientology grade chart. Hubbard promoted him to "Pope" in 1966, a title not to endure. And though Hubbard's income soared, McMaster received none of it.
Under Hubbard, McMaster had no real power. He slowly became disillusioned as he saw $cientology organizations turn authoritarian and brutally punitive, far different from how he had portrayed them. He witnessed the imprisonment of a terrified 4-year-old in the Sea Org's dark, filthy, rat- infested chain locker for the "Ethics offense" of chewing one of Hubbard's papers. Such imprisonment became a common form of staff punishment. "Overboarding" was instituted, with "out-ethics" staff being forcibly thrown into the ocean. McMaster was overboarded several times, the last time being left struggling in the water with a broken collarbone for 3 hours. According to McMaster, in some orgs with no chain locker or overboarding facilities, the offender's head is shoved into a toilet bowl, which is then flushed.

McMaster fell from grace in 1968 when he challenged Hubbard for chain-lockering a little deaf-mute girl for a week. He was subject to hard labor, sleep deprivation and other hardships. "Hubbard wanted to break me," he states. In 1969 McMaster resigned from $cientology, and was declared "suppressive" by Hubbard.
McMaster stated in an interview: "I was so excited about the function of auditing ($cientology counseling) that I was willing to overlook Hubbard's faults - . That was up to a point of course, the final point being my realization that his intentions were entirely self-serving. I saw that he was in it for the money and personal power, and his actual intentions were not as stated. The basic function of auditing is a wonderful thing, but Hubbard perverted it."
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Leaving aside the fact that in August 1950 LRH actually declared a young woman at the time he named as Sonia Bianca the world's first clear - here's what happened to the next ten officially recognised Clears:

clear #1 DEAD John McMaster

clear #2 - OUT of Scientology

clear #3 - OUT of Scientology

clear #4 DEAD

clear #5 - OUT of Scientology

clear #6 DEAD

clear #7 in

clear #8 - OUT of Scientology

clear #9 - OUT of Scientology

clear #10 - OUT of Scientology
 

skollie

Silver Meritorious Patron
Karen#1 | September 4, 2010 at 12:36 am | Reply There are a few on the Internet that hammer and pound about overboarding and chain locker Incs.
This is so EMBELLISHED and BLOWN out of PROPORTION.
We who were on the Flagship Apollo in the 1970s never saw any such thing.
I didn’t.
All former Apollo crew I am in touch with didn’t.
I will guess that Mike Rinder also saw no such thing.

These incidents occurred in the 1968 era for barely 2 months and while they were unfortunate ad should not have occurred, they were by no means endemic or part of the culture of the Apollo with LRH.

After this post by Karen I made a comment suggesting she (Karen) come over to ESMB and read Sharone's story. - My comment never made it past the "moderation" stage. Marty (the prick), is not interested in the truth.
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
No, Rather to salvage the subject of Scientology. I agrre with Alonzo on the Changes Hubbard made himself reversing the original dirtection of the subject

I'm pretty sure I have seen Scientology referred to as "the subject of Scientology" only by Scientologists.
 

Veda

Sponsor
"Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. Not for 'what' [any ideal] but just to survive... I turned the thing up [the 'dynamic principle of existence: Survive!'], so it's up to me to survive in a big way.

"Personal immortality is only to be gained through the printed word, barred note, or painted canvas or hard granite [or stainless steel]. Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all the books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal [hidden agenda] as far as I am concerned. Things which stand too consistently in my way make me nervous.

"It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt."


L. Ron Hubbard, 'Excalibur' letter, from 1938


"You are just and kind. You are merciless to any who cross your rule..."

"You can be merciless when your will is crossed and have the right to be merciless."

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

""Men are your slaves."


L. Ron Hubbard, from his "Affirmations', 1946


In October 1950, Dr. J.A. Winter, who had written the 'Introduction' to 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health', resigned in protest from the Hubbard Dianetic Foundation. He described the ideals presented by Hubbard as "lip service."

In March of 1951, John Campbell, publisher of 'Astounding Science Fiction', also resigned in protest against the "cult" of Dianetics.

Meanwhile, Hubbard was busy writing letters to the FBI describing many of his former Dianetic associates as communists and communist sympathizers.

Hubbard's letters to the FBI would continue for years. In 1955, he wrote that he had received a lucrative secret offer from the KGB to travel to Russia and work for the Russians but had turned it down; he also forwarded a copy of his newly discovered (it was "slipped under the door," etc.) 'Russian Textbook on Psycho-Politics' which happened to mention "Dianetics" several times (as a danger to the advance of Russian communism), and which, oddly enough, contained various Hubbardisms such as "thinkingness."

Six months earlier, Hubbard had written 'The Manual on Dissemination of Material' which instructed Scientologists to "NEVER PERMIT" (capitalization in original) Scientology to be "talked about contemptuously before a group," and to use the legal system and law suits to harass and, if possible, "ruin utterly."

Four years earlier, Hubbard had written, in 'Science of Survival', of how those low on the "tone scale" (placement on the "scale" being easily determined by the person's reaction to Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology) should be "disposed of quietly and without sorrow."
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Leaving aside the fact that in August 1950 LRH actually declared a young woman at the time he named as Sonia Bianca the world's first clear - here's what happened to the next ten officially recognised Clears:

clear #1 DEAD John McMaster

clear #2 - OUT of Scientology

clear #3 - OUT of Scientology

clear #4 DEAD

clear #5 - OUT of Scientology

clear #6 DEAD

clear #7 in

clear #8 - OUT of Scientology

clear #9 - OUT of Scientology

clear #10 - OUT of Scientology

This list is inacurate.

Clears 2, 3, 10 are freezoners to my own personal knowledge.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
This list is inacurate.

Clears 2, 3, 10 are freezoners to my own personal knowledge.

Terril who is 7 ? And yes the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of those 3 being Freezoners is a better reflection of the Truth. That list should get a once over by you maybe ? Alsoo died a scientologist or died a non-scientologist should shed more light.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
I was on the ship in '68 from June till November. I saw overboard happening and observed chain locker and chipping in the "tank".

Overboards started to the best of my knowledge on the Class 8 course, and were intended as a "sudden wake up" for flubbing auditors, as the course was very high pressure and their wasn't time for slower handlings.

I was never overboarded myself, but once was rescued by Diana Hubbard personally when the whole of Div 6 was about to be tossed over - she had just upgraded myself (photograher) and Richard Gorman, staff artist, to Commodore staff.

The chain locker and tank were the 'slow" handling for low conditions. Instead of having to write out formulas etc, continuous work was the formula. 48 hours non stop for doubt, 24 hours for liability, and 12 hours for non existance - all done ONE AFTER THE OTHER without a sleep break. And normally served in the "tank", a huge freh water tank in the bowls of the ship that had rusted and was unusable for drinking water storage on a long sea journy. You were lowered into the space, given a small hammer and a chisel and had to chip off the rust.

Enemy was being put in the chain locker until you gave the correct answer to a Q from the MAA on "Who are you?" "Me".

Food for chain locker and tank "clients" was minimal, slops and left overs placed in one bucket.

Thse hours don't take into account of your regular work period, if you got assigned to 48/24/12 after a regular 12 hour work period, then you started straight away, then when you finished, if your shift had started you worked on.

The general attitude was that surviving this extreme sequence was a badge of honour, you really wern't a SO memeber unless you had done this.

Wimps could leave the ship in disgrace.

Regards, Allen
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I was on the ship in '68 from June till November. I saw overboard happening and observed chain locker and chipping in the "tank".

Overboards started to the best of my knowledge on the Class 8 course, and were intended as a "sudden wake up" for flubbing auditors, as the course was very high pressure and their wasn't time for slower handlings.

I was never overboarded myself, but once was rescued by Diana Hubbard personally when the whole of Div 6 was about to be tossed over - she had just upgraded myself (photograher) and Richard Gorman, staff artist, to Commodore staff.

The chain locker and tank were the 'slow" handling for low conditions. Instead of having to write out formulas etc, continuous work was the formula. 48 hours non stop for doubt, 24 hours for liability, and 12 hours for non existance - all done ONE AFTER THE OTHER without a sleep break. And normally served in the "tank", a huge freh water tank in the bowls of the ship that had rusted and was unusable for drinking water storage on a long sea journy. You were lowered into the space, given a small hammer and a chisel and had to chip off the rust.

Enemy was being put in the chain locker until you gave the correct answer to a Q from the MAA on "Who are you?" "Me".

Food for chain locker and tank "clients" was minimal, slops and left overs placed in one bucket.

Thse hours don't take into account of your regular work period, if you got assigned to 48/24/12 after a regular 12 hour work period, then you started straight away, then when you finished, if your shift had started you worked on.

The general attitude was that surviving this extreme sequence was a badge of honour, you really wern't a SO memeber unless you had done this.

Wimps could leave the ship in disgrace.

Regards, Allen

Thank you very much for adding value to this thread. It sure makes you see the mind-set that had been put in place. How about John McMasters tale and children ?

See my above Post regarding Mc Master and the deafmute girl
 

Feral

Rogue male
I was on the ship in '68 from June till November. I saw overboard happening and observed chain locker and chipping in the "tank".

Overboards started to the best of my knowledge on the Class 8 course, and were intended as a "sudden wake up" for flubbing auditors, as the course was very high pressure and their wasn't time for slower handlings.

So it wasn't abuse, it was an expeditious handling, right?

I was never overboarded myself, but once was rescued by Diana Hubbard personally when the whole of Div 6 was about to be tossed over - she had just upgraded myself (photograher) and Richard Gorman, staff artist, to Commodore staff.

So, to this day you remain unhandled. lol

The chain locker and tank were the 'slow" handling for low conditions. Instead of having to write out formulas etc, continuous work was the formula. 48 hours non stop for doubt, 24 hours for liability, and 12 hours for non existance - all done ONE AFTER THE OTHER without a sleep break. And normally served in the "tank", a huge freh water tank in the bowls of the ship that had rusted and was unusable for drinking water storage on a long sea journy. You were lowered into the space, given a small hammer and a chisel and had to chip off the rust.

Enemy was being put in the chain locker until you gave the correct answer to a Q from the MAA on "Who are you?" "Me".

Food for chain locker and tank "clients" was minimal, slops and left overs placed in one bucket.

Thse hours don't take into account of your regular work period, if you got assigned to 48/24/12 after a regular 12 hour work period, then you started straight away, then when you finished, if your shift had started you worked on.

The general attitude was that surviving this extreme sequence was a badge of honour, you really wern't a SO memeber unless you had done this.

Wimps could leave the ship in disgrace.

Regards, Allen

I love hearing these stories about the good ol' days" on the Apollo. You know where the last real OTees were made. Like if you got put through lowers and had to work 108 hrs straight (if you had a shift before and after) then you were really something.

People who came through it were branded with fire and wore the fact that they survived "the handlings" as a badge of honor, but, I was just wondering though, where in those basic books that explain the philosophy of Scientology does it even come come close to delineating these handlings?

And those that didn't survive so well, like Hana Eltringham, Susan Meister and Sharone Stainforth, just wimps, eh? Left in disgrace, I think they were branded DBs too that period was the birth of that term IIRC.

You know it's attitudes like this that glorify the abuse and deify Hubbard that actually perpetuate the shit going down today at the int base and in SO units.

The SO, chainlockers, overboadings, CMO, OT III, the global conspiracy of 12 men and the RPF all came from that RJ67 era, they are a study in madness, seriously.

This period was the birth of the cult as it exists today too, yet you glorify it, seriously mate; wake the fuck up!
 
Last edited:

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Wimps could leave the ship in disgrace.

Ironic that it was actually the strongest who were the ones able to break free from the mind fuck and leave the ship. Far from being wimps, they were the real heroes.
 

skollie

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was on the ship in '68 from June till November. I saw overboard happening and observed chain locker and chipping in the "tank".

Overboards started to the best of my knowledge on the Class 8 course, and were intended as a "sudden wake up" for flubbing auditors, as the course was very high pressure and their wasn't time for slower handlings.

I was never overboarded myself, but once was rescued by Diana Hubbard personally when the whole of Div 6 was about to be tossed over - she had just upgraded myself (photograher) and Richard Gorman, staff artist, to Commodore staff.

The chain locker and tank were the 'slow" handling for low conditions. Instead of having to write out formulas etc, continuous work was the formula. 48 hours non stop for doubt, 24 hours for liability, and 12 hours for non existance - all done ONE AFTER THE OTHER without a sleep break. And normally served in the "tank", a huge freh water tank in the bowls of the ship that had rusted and was unusable for drinking water storage on a long sea journy. You were lowered into the space, given a small hammer and a chisel and had to chip off the rust.

Enemy was being put in the chain locker until you gave the correct answer to a Q from the MAA on "Who are you?" "Me".

Food for chain locker and tank "clients" was minimal, slops and left overs placed in one bucket.

Thse hours don't take into account of your regular work period, if you got assigned to 48/24/12 after a regular 12 hour work period, then you started straight away, then when you finished, if your shift had started you worked on.

The general attitude was that surviving this extreme sequence was a badge of honour, you really wern't a SO memeber unless you had done this.

Wimps could leave the ship in disgrace.

Regards, Allen

This post disgusts me. :angry: What choice did the children have? How were these "wimps" supposed to leave?

From Sharone's scientology life:
I was 10 years old. My Father was sent on a mission in January 1969, supposedly for 3 weeks at most and never returned. I did not hear from him or hear anything of him, even though I did ask on a few occasions. I was miserable without him and after being put in the Condition of Liability in the hold of the ship, I became more and more depressed.
 
Top