Hello all! from an ex scio kid

kitkat

New Member
Hello everyone!

I've been slowly extracting myself from scientology for the past 15 years and have finally gone looking on the interwebs and found this forum! Funny how traces of brainwashing stick.

A little bit about me, I am (was?) a second generation scientologist. I had a brief brush with staff in my teens, which wasn't all that bad, followed by an equally brief time in the sea org which was that bad. My family are all still very involved unfortunately. Except for my dad who keeps his mouth shut so he can have a relationship with his kids and grandkids. I'm taking lessons from him.
 

Miss Ellie

Miss Ellie
Good for you and welcome. All my family is out now but I was under the radar for years.

I hope you find friends and comfort here. We are a wild bunch but harmless... Well some of are. Join the party.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Hello everyone!

I've been slowly extracting myself from scientology for the past 15 years and have finally gone looking on the interwebs and found this forum! Funny how traces of brainwashing stick.

A little bit about me, I am (was?) a second generation scientologist. I had a brief brush with staff in my teens, which wasn't all that bad, followed by an equally brief time in the sea org which was that bad. My family are all still very involved unfortunately. Except for my dad who keeps his mouth shut so he can have a relationship with his kids and grandkids. I'm taking lessons from him.
Hi kitkat and welcome to ESMB.

There are plenty of stories here to help you hopefully rid yourself completely of the toxic after-effects of involvement in that mind-bending cult.
 
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hummingbird

Patron with Honors
:welcome2:

Welcome, @kitkat! Your post is a ray of hope that folk can truly be free.

Enjoy your stay here. When you’re ready, tell us some stories.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Welcome!

Be aware that OSA has people monitoring this board, so in your postings try to avoid giving identifying information (specific orgs you did service in or worked as staff in, when you did particular bridge actions, etc)
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
Welcome kitkat. It's hard to be out when you still have friends and family still in. I left a few years before you. Who knows, if you were in Los Angeles, maybe we knew each other. I wasn't 2nd Gen, but I was friends with a lot of them.

I have very recently lost a few 2nd Gen friends who are still in, as I was able to maintain relationships with them. But things have changed drastically in the last year. I've changed. It's been really upsetting. It's hard. Hopefully you will find some support here. I try to pop by as much as I can.

:handshake:
 

kitkat

New Member
Welcome kitkat. It's hard to be out when you still have friends and family still in. I left a few years before you. Who knows, if you were in Los Angeles, maybe we knew each other. I wasn't 2nd Gen, but I was friends with a lot of them.

I have very recently lost a few 2nd Gen friends who are still in, as I was able to maintain relationships with them. But things have changed drastically in the last year. I've changed. It's been really upsetting. It's hard. Hopefully you will find some support here. I try to pop by as much as I can.

:handshake:

Thanks!

I'm from the other side of the world to Los Angeles though it's possible a few old friends ended up there.

It is hard. I'm impressed you managed to keep those relationships for so long. I haven't really managed to hang onto any old friendships, particularly from the SO. From what I'd seen when I was in there I assumed no one would want anything to do with me after I left. And older friends I'd grown up with either disappeared and stopped talking to anyone or are very involved in the orgs. At best those conversations are lots of small talk and at worst I get to try and keep my mouth shut while some self-righteous idiot tries to shove regurgitated BS down my throat.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks!

I'm from the other side of the world to Los Angeles though it's possible a few old friends ended up there.

It is hard. I'm impressed you managed to keep those relationships for so long. I haven't really managed to hang onto any old friendships, particularly from the SO. From what I'd seen when I was in there I assumed no one would want anything to do with me after I left. And older friends I'd grown up with either disappeared and stopped talking to anyone or are very involved in the orgs. At best those conversations are lots of small talk and at worst I get to try and keep my mouth shut while some self-righteous idiot tries to shove regurgitated BS down my throat.
It's difficult to have Scientology friends, if that is even possible according to what most people consider to be a friend without mixed loyalties and ulterior motives and the constant possibility of snitching and betrayal. Even if you lay low and try to be UTR eventually they see you aren't active or enthusiastic (BIs = Bad Indicators) and I expect lately they have really ratcheted up the witch hunt and denigration of people who haven't been on lines and "making flows" to the Bridge for a long time. I've been noticing signals like that. As things deteriorate the fanaticism is bound to escalate and Leah has them pretty stressed out. For an organization that says they can help you be at total cause over life and livingness they are playing the victim card an awful lot lately.
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
It's difficult to have Scientology friends, if that is even possible according to what most people consider to be a friend without mixed loyalties and ulterior motives and the constant possibility of snitching and betrayal. Even if you lay low and try to be UTR eventually they see you aren't active or enthusiastic (BIs = Bad Indicators) and I expect lately they have really ratcheted up the witch hunt and denigration of people who haven't been on lines and "making flows" to the Bridge for a long time. I've been noticing signals like that. As things deteriorate the fanaticism is bound to escalate and Leah has them pretty stressed out. For an organization that says they can help you be at total cause over life and livingness they are playing the victim card an awful lot lately.
Believe it or not, my best friend and I managed to stay extremely close. At first, we didn't talk at all. It was awkward. Then we started meeting for coffee, and we just missed each other too much. We worked it out. At first, we agreed not to talk about Scientology at all and I didn't even tell her I thought it was a cult. Maybe after a couple of years I opened up and she eventually realized how against it I was. I kept saying how once she knew how much I was going to speak out she would disconnect from me, she kept promising she would not.

I was writing a book. For many years I worked on it and as this went on, she found out that it was a negative Scientology book and she was in it, and that I even made her look bad in some parts. We still remained good friends. She understood.

Then her OT8 parents left Scientology, only they are UTR. She told me about this and she is now doing Scientology that is loosely connected with the org. She doesn't want to go in anymore, so a field auditor is giving her sessions and a CS at CC is doing the folders. She has a foot out, or so it seems, and she watches Leah's show. She says she likes it okay, but never liked Leah, so she said "It's hard to watch because of that." She knew Mike too and always liked him. Whatever though, I'm sure the information is getting through her head.

Then in November we had a huge blow up. Our biggest yet. (We've had some in the past because we've been like siblings for almost 30 years.) But it was over something very small. I'm sure it wasn't the actual issue though. And we will not talk again. That is the end of our friendship. I'm still mourning. Since then, I lost the last of the others (2 more). It's been really difficult. Those two I knew even longer.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Believe it or not, my best friend and I managed to stay extremely close. At first, we didn't talk at all. It was awkward. Then we started meeting for coffee, and we just missed each other too much. We worked it out. At first, we agreed not to talk about Scientology at all and I didn't even tell her I thought it was a cult. Maybe after a couple of years I opened up and she eventually realized how against it I was. I kept saying how once she knew how much I was going to speak out she would disconnect from me, she kept promising she would not.

I was writing a book. For many years I worked on it and as this went on, she found out that it was a negative Scientology book and she was in it, and that I even made her look bad in some parts. We still remained good friends. She understood.

Then her OT8 parents left Scientology, only they are UTR. She told me about this and she is now doing Scientology that is loosely connected with the org. She doesn't want to go in anymore, so a field auditor is giving her sessions and a CS at CC is doing the folders. She has a foot out, or so it seems, and she watches Leah's show. She says she likes it okay, but never liked Leah, so she said "It's hard to watch because of that." She knew Mike too and always liked him. Whatever though, I'm sure the information is getting through her head.

Then in November we had a huge blow up. Our biggest yet. (We've had some in the past because we've been like siblings for almost 30 years.) But it was over something very small. I'm sure it wasn't the actual issue though. And we will not talk again. That is the end of our friendship. I'm still mourning. Since then, I lost the last of the others (2 more). It's been really difficult. Those two I knew even longer.
That's how it is. If Scientology lead with the promise that you have to define all your relationships according to their criteria and fully explained what that entailed instead of all the warm and fuzzy new agey stuff it wouldn't get anywhere. Still, it says something about people when they stick with it long after all the coercion is known. I have old childhood friends who I got into it and who are still very much in. At this point I have a difficult time imagining the circumstances where we might be friends again.
 

kitkat

New Member
Believe it or not, my best friend and I managed to stay extremely close. At first, we didn't talk at all. It was awkward. Then we started meeting for coffee, and we just missed each other too much. We worked it out. At first, we agreed not to talk about Scientology at all and I didn't even tell her I thought it was a cult. Maybe after a couple of years I opened up and she eventually realized how against it I was. I kept saying how once she knew how much I was going to speak out she would disconnect from me, she kept promising she would not.

I was writing a book. For many years I worked on it and as this went on, she found out that it was a negative Scientology book and she was in it, and that I even made her look bad in some parts. We still remained good friends. She understood.

Then her OT8 parents left Scientology, only they are UTR. She told me about this and she is now doing Scientology that is loosely connected with the org. She doesn't want to go in anymore, so a field auditor is giving her sessions and a CS at CC is doing the folders. She has a foot out, or so it seems, and she watches Leah's show. She says she likes it okay, but never liked Leah, so she said "It's hard to watch because of that." She knew Mike too and always liked him. Whatever though, I'm sure the information is getting through her head.

Then in November we had a huge blow up. Our biggest yet. (We've had some in the past because we've been like siblings for almost 30 years.) But it was over something very small. I'm sure it wasn't the actual issue though. And we will not talk again. That is the end of our friendship. I'm still mourning. Since then, I lost the last of the others (2 more). It's been really difficult. Those two I knew even longer.
That is really sad. Particularly as it sounds like you guys had already gone through so much.

Based on my experience leaving is bloody hard and I think I had a lot less to lose than a lot of 2nd gen kids. I know for my family and their friends they're part of a very close knit community, with all the benefits. To be honest if I hadn't moved I might never have looked closely enough to work out it's all crap.
 

kitkat

New Member
That's how it is. If Scientology lead with the promise that you have to define all your relationships according to their criteria and fully explained what that entailed instead of all the warm and fuzzy new agey stuff it wouldn't get anywhere. Still, it says something about people when they stick with it long after all the coercion is known. I have old childhood friends who I got into it and who are still very much in. At this point I have a difficult time imagining the circumstances where we might be friends again.
It can be hard to see it as coercion - 'taking responsibility' and 'being cause', etc. And whatever you do don't have an 'open mind'.

Also I don't think telling 2nd gen kids all relationships must be defined by their criteria would make any difference. They basically do tell us when we join the SO and we join anyway....
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
It can be hard to see it as coercion - 'taking responsibility' and 'being cause', etc. And whatever you do don't have an 'open mind'.

Also I don't think telling 2nd gen kids all relationships must be defined by their criteria would make any difference. They basically do tell us when we join the SO and we join anyway....
For most people Scientology is a process of going deeper into the onion over time discovering the many different ways they coerce and exploit you until you just can't take it any more and start distancing yourself from it. But I would be interested in how this might be different for a 2nd gen. Do they already have what might be considered a full disclosure of what they are in or getting into and then disregard it or are they also kept in the dark and left to figure it out on their own?

When I was in the Sea Org after enough years to get the full lay of the land I never talked about this with anyone until many years after I left. No other public Scientologists gave any hint that they were aware of the kinds of things I saw so I have to assume that this is still the case and that even 2nd gens are highly insulated from the truth. Is that incorrect? Do 2nd gens talk about how they expect to have to disconnect from each other, siblings or parents or how badly staff are treated and all the asset stripping, how personal information is used against you and how people are fair gamed, etc.?
 

kitkat

New Member
For most people Scientology is a process of going deeper into the onion over time discovering the many different ways they coerce and exploit you until you just can't take it any more and start distancing yourself from it. But I would be interested in how this might be different for a 2nd gen. Do they already have what might be considered a full disclosure of what they are in or getting into and then disregard it or are they also kept in the dark and left to figure it out on their own?

When I was in the Sea Org after enough years to get the full lay of the land I never talked about this with anyone until many years after I left. No other public Scientologists gave any hint that they were aware of the kinds of things I saw so I have to assume that this is still the case and that even 2nd gens are highly insulated from the truth. Is that incorrect? Do 2nd gens talk about how they expect to have to disconnect from each other, siblings or parents or how badly staff are treated and all the asset stripping, how personal information is used against you and how people are fair gamed, etc.?
My experience as a 2nd Gen? I think I had an inkling something didn't add up by the time I was about 11. But it's what you've been raised to believe is truth, by parents, by teachers, pretty much every adult in your life in any position of authority. I have heard horror stories about abusive scio parents but my parents are great and I had no reason not to believe them. And until I joined staff it didn't really figure too heavily in my life. Occasional assists, study tech, and a few events a year. When I did join staff the org I was in didn't seem to have many obvious nutcases so it was easy to put the things that looked wrong down to either people not being perfect or my lack of understanding. And it's ALWAYS 'getting better, more on policy, closer to source', etc.
My experience in the sea org is generally not something I talk about at all. There's one person in my life who had a similar experience and we've discussed it. Other than that, no. 2nd gens don't talk about any of it. We don't know about it or realise its so wrong when we're in and when we're out I think some of us try and forget everything.
 

kitkat

New Member
I was definitely brainwashed. Its pretty easy to brainwash a kid.
Step one: tell them they're awesome. They're smarter, more 'able'. Imply they're better than everyone around them.
Step two: they screw up in some way or get upset, tell them it's not their fault. It's their reactive mind, which isn't really them.
Step three: repeat for 15+ years.
Throw in a some courses and convince them everyone who disents is out to get them because they're too awesome and there you go! Brainwashed child.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
@kitkat

Hi kitkat! WELCOME to ESMB! :welcome2:

That's too bad your family is still in Scientology :sad: but wonderful that your dad isn't so brainwashed that he hasn't cut you off. :hug:

Like you, I was in Scientology for many years and out for a long time before I got in touch with any exes. You're doing great and it's a pleasure to have you here.
 
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