Hello All

[GE cmdr]

New ex-scn here. Ex-SO/ex-staff/ex NNstaff


I have kind of been on the fence about all this "anti" scn stuff. I see a lot of truth in it but I also see a lot of BS. I guess I am of the opinion that Hubbard believed what he did and COB has destroyed the church.

Many of the Scn around these days have a good idea about what is going on but of course, nobody talks about it. An event today is a bunch of people pretending really, that is what i get out of it. It is like they are forcing themselves to clap for the 50th announcement of the "Grand Opening" of the same org (that still isn't open).

Many years ago I was in Michigan and went to see the event. I got a ride from my friend and when we got to the address we had to check it a few times because the place we had arrived at was actually a gutted building. The outside was fine but if you open the door, nothing. Just some beams and no walls really, gutted. In the back we could see some people and chairs set up around a TV, yup I was there. When it came time to watch the event we had to sit through all the typical crap, "Way to happiness stopped a war and cured AIDS! Everywhere the VMs in africa go, the fighting just stops" Okay maybe they didn't say that but you know the typical crap.

Anyways, during the event they announced the "Ideal Org in Battle Creek", complete with pictures of the building and the BEAUTIFUL interior and all the staff but the only problem was...this "ideal org" was the 1/2 demolished building i was sitting in WTF. I looked around the room and saw a bunch of people who looked equally confused, they were being lied to in the most overt way possible. These people were sitting in a shit-hole while watching the TV tell them that they were in this fancy new place, some shit about "postulates" i heard someone say. Latter I found out that they technically did not even own the building yet, I always wondered if we were trespassing.

This was around the time the new even MORE standard basics were coming out. I always found it funny that people would attest to how much "better" these books were than those stupid old ones, yet everyone I talked to would say in some form or another that they still kept ALL the old books "just in case". Just in case? Just in case this guy who just lied to you about the VERY BUILDING YOU ARE SITTING IN turns out to be full of shit? No....never. I did take this issue up with one old timer (old OTVIII) by asking him if these new books were so much better then why keep the old ones. He told me "When you survived in Scn in the 70s-80-s you kind of learned to go with the party line" and "we really should not be having this conversation", but he never wrote a report or told on me.

I think there is a big difference between the Scn I got (late 90s- 2016, im pretty young). I hear people talk about their wins and how awesome staff were and it really isn't what I see. These days ethics just seems like a tool to torture people you don't like. For example, i was on staff one place and the ED at the time showed up so drunk that he couldn't walk, public actually had to help get him to bed. A confessional and 3 days of lowers latter- good as new back in good standing. Meanwhile I'm assigned Liability for showing up late after sleeping for the first time after an 80 hour shift and the kicker, it was "people like me who don't give a shit is why people like our lovable ED have to work late", i told the EO it was people like me who work so long that LET the ED have time to go out and get smashed. Is it just me or has anyone else on staff ever seen the execs just pick a person to hate fuck in every way possible. "Your stats don't mean shit, this offense gets you liability" and "your stats are in danger, you're in treason", it seemed while i was on staff, no matter what I did, it was wrong- even if I did something right, it was because of something I did wrong. It was like everything I did was some sort of ethics violation and i was the whipping boy for the org. I had my own apartment, that triggered NUMEROUS ethics interviews because apparently the ONLY reason a person would want their own space is because overts and out 2D. While anyone else could do anything they wanted, srssly. The Reg would not be feeling good and they would tell him "Oh, you should go home and rest for a little bit and then come back" while if I was not BRIGHT and HAPPY ALL THE TIME it meant i had overts "write your OWs" which would always lead to something like

"Thank you, your needle floated. You can put the cans down. By the way, i have this report here. Last week apparently you got upset at X because he bleached your colored clothes"

Yes, i was kind of pissed about that. Wouldn't you be?

"Yeah i suppose so, do you ever get the feeling that you are just being picked on?"

Considering I was put on an OW write up for showing up 10min late on a day i was not even supposed to be here because i was told i could sleep after working for 2 days straight, and i was working for 2 days as part of a liability because of a downstat in an area that isn't even remotely connected to my post. Yeah, it feels like I am just being fucked with.

"See, you are critical and nattery. I would like you to write OWs"

I don't know, it seems like I was constantly just being fucked with ALL THE TIME. Anyone else see crap like this going on with other staff? Like one guy that would constantly be the "problem" no matter what? I was never sure if it was them or me, i guess it is easy to always see things your way and to justify your own shit. But I feel it gets to a point where you have to realize that you are just dealing with insanity.


I feel a lot of the policies make sense when put into practice but many Scns need to realize that the policies do not cover EVERYTHING and if you have to stretch their meaning to anything more than they say, you are just making shit up. I mean i had to answer to crazy fucking accusations. One of my favorites, i was once put on OWs for leaving when the org closed everynight. There was just "something about the way i would leave" that meant i really wasn't just leaving at the end of the day, i was in fact blowing every night and only coming back out of "fear".

 

[PirateAndBum]

Your staff experiences are not at all uncommon. You are quite correct that they are nuts.

Welcome to ESMB! Glad you are out of the crazy

 

[JustSheila]

to ESMB, GE cmdr!

What a horrible experience. Yes, many of us shared terrible experiences in scn, no matter what the time frame. There were short periods in different areas where things were temporarily calmer, but it always returned to the same scenario: ethics used as a means to control and manipulate others, vast evidence that scn tek didn't work on even the most dedicated, human rights and other abuses, false promises and fraud fraud fraud.

It's good to have you here. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[GE cmdr]

to ESMB, GE cmdr!

What a horrible experience. Yes, many of us shared terrible experiences in scn, no matter what the time frame. There were short periods in different areas where things were temporarily calmer, but it always returned to the same scenario: ethics used as a means to control and manipulate others, vast evidence that scn tek didn't work on even the most dedicated, human rights and other abuses, false promises and fraud fraud fraud.

It's good to have you here. Thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks.
I recently talked to some girl who actually left right after I did. She was one the favorites so was never subject to much of the crazy. She is probably the sweetest girl i have ever met but saying she was "not to bright" would be a VERY generous description of her if you know what I mean. She told me something that you just kind of said. She was saying before you are "in" that it seems like all nice and good but once you are on staff, their "help" turns into an effort to control.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Hey GE cmdr,

 

[Veda]

Hi GE cmdr, and welcome, and thanks for sharing your experiences. It will no doubt be helpful to others.

New ex-scn here. Ex-SO/ex-staff/ex NNstaff


I have kind of been on the fence about all this "anti" scn stuff. I see a lot of truth in it but I also see a lot of BS. I guess I am of the opinion that Hubbard believed what he did and COB has destroyed the church.

-snip-

Three questions arise, "What did Hubbard really believe?," and "What was Hubbard really doing?"

Are we to assume that Hubbard was being honest and upfront with the Scientology membership?

The avalanche of information and analysis regarding Hubbard and Scientology that began in the early 1980s, and was preceded by other information and analysis going back to the earliest days, seems to show that Hubbard was not honest and upfront.

Here's one example. There are many others.

David Mayo was the senior "tech" person in Scientology during much of the 1970s.

David Mayo left the Scientology organization after being declared a Suppressive Person by Hubbard.

Excerpt from the 1989 David Mayo article, and a link to the complete article: http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Clear

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."​

The above short statement might be overlooked, but it's really quite startling.

It means, if true, that Hubbard lied about the "tech."

It also means that Hubbard had a self serving hidden agenda.

And looking at the vast supply of other information now available, there is strong indication that Hubbard lied about the "tech," and lied about his true motivations, going back to the very beginnings of Scientology.

This is something to ponder.

__________​

According to Jesse Prince, a former senior Scientology executive, from an essay from the year 2000:

"Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..."
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm​

________

John McMaster was one of Scientology's senior "tech" people during much of the 1960s.​

John McMaster, "the world's first real Clear," interviewed in 1985, referring to the mid 1960s:

"He [Hubbard] got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'."​

Hubbard declared McMaster a Suppressive Person in 1969.

___________



The Scientological Onion:
http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html​

 

[Enthetan]

I think there is a big difference between the Scn I got (late 90s- 2016, im pretty young). I hear people talk about their wins and how awesome staff were and it really isn't what I see. These days ethics just seems like a tool to torture people you don't like. For example, i was on staff one place and the ED at the time showed up so drunk that he couldn't walk, public actually had to help get him to bed. A confessional and 3 days of lowers latter- good as new back in good standing. Meanwhile I'm assigned Liability for showing up late after sleeping for the first time after an 80 hour shift and the kicker, it was "people like me who don't give a shit is why people like our lovable ED have to work late", i told the EO it was people like me who work so long that LET the ED have time to go out and get smashed. Is it just me or has anyone else on staff ever seen the execs just pick a person to hate fuck in every way possible. "Your stats don't mean shit, this offense gets you liability" and "your stats are in danger, you're in treason", it seemed while i was on staff, no matter what I did, it was wrong- even if I did something right, it was because of something I did wrong. It was like everything I did was some sort of ethics violation and i was the whipping boy for the org. I had my own apartment, that triggered NUMEROUS ethics interviews because apparently the ONLY reason a person would want their own space is because overts and out 2D. While anyone else could do anything they wanted, srssly. The Reg would not be feeling good and they would tell him "Oh, you should go home and rest for a little bit and then come back" while if I was not BRIGHT and HAPPY ALL THE TIME it meant i had overts "write your OWs" which would always lead to something like
.

There are several ways for managing people, depending on what seems to work.

Some people, you give them some flattery, and they will give you the world.

Some people, you treat them like shit, and they will take it for a long time, and work hard to "try to do better" in a futile attempt to make the abuse stop.

Some people, they want what they want, and if you don't deliver, then they are gone.

I'm going to guess that the ED was sufficiently good at something (most likely regging) that his seniors wanted to keep him around, and the price of keeping him around bringing in the gross income was to not give him a hard time.

In your case, I'm figuring they thought they had somebody who they could intimidate and bully into producing, and that's why they bullied you.

 

[JustSheila]

Good analogy, Enthetan.

There was a time I wondered if I walked around with an invisible sign saying, "Scam me, abuse me!" Seriously. Scientology calls it PTS, but that's so far from the truth.

Anyone who looks for someone else to cure them or their life, anyone who looks for someone else to make their decisions, give them direction, solve their problems (good advice aside) and in any way lead their life for them is going to find a lot of people willing to abuse them. It brings out the worst in people, even those who aren't normally abusive.

The same goes for anyone who is too worried about pleasing others or their opinions.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I have kind of been on the fence about all this "anti" scn stuff. I see a lot of truth in it but I also see a lot of BS.

A lot of BS where? The anti-Scn stuff I see, almost always from exes, seems pretty accurate overall.

Paul

 

[hummingbird]

Welcome, GE cmdr!



Loved your first post. Especially the bit about being in the gorgeous ideal org!

Well, I joined in 1973, went on staff in 1974, and got booted out in 1983. Dig that timeframe, because I'm gonna tellya something. You said this:

I have kind of been on the fence about all this "anti" scn stuff. I see a lot of truth in it but I also see a lot of BS. I guess I am of the opinion that Hubbard believed what he did and COB has destroyed the church.

Ektually, it began on its way to destruction in 1976 when the "Solution to Inflation" came out. Check this (and I quote from ED 284INT):

... beginning at midnight 31 October 1976 the requested donations of all services, books, meters, courses and processing, will increase 5%.

On 30 November 1976 at midnight, all these prices will be increased 5% over October.

... Thereafter, at midnight on the last day of each month, the expected donations will increase 5% over the past month.

In just a few months, our lively mission became a graveyard. Do the math, in just six months, the "expected donations" (don't you just love that term) for a service would increase a total of 34%. And it just kept on going! People couldn't afford a thing. Yeah, it was couched as a way to help the staff, but it hurt us. And I wondered, but never asked, how doubling the prices of things would help us in our goal of clearing the planet. :confused2:

That's when the money-grubbing began in earnest. All the COB has done is taken it to a new level.

And that stuff you mention about ethics as punishment? Disconnection? RPF? It was all going on back then too. When LTurd was in charge.

Don't think that anything the COB is doing is his idea. He's just spinning out the policies to the inevitable conclusions.

 

[GE cmdr]

Thnx guys.

You bring up some good points, i guess I'm some sort of wild card. I didn't need "help", i just wanted to know more. I produced just fine, i just wanted to be left alone.

 

[GE cmdr]

Welcome, GE cmdr!


In just a few months, our lively mission became a graveyard.

hmmm

Riverside???

I don't think disconnection or the RPF is a bad thing. I have heard about many people on the RPF that say it really wasn't horrible. But these latter stories of the RPF...not the same thing.

 

[Enthetan]

Ektually, it began on its way to destruction in 1976 when the "Solution to Inflation" came out. Check this (and I quote from ED 284INT):


In just a few months, our lively mission became a graveyard. Do the math, in just six months, the "expected donations" (don't you just love that term) for a service would increase a total of 34%. And it just kept on going! People couldn't afford a thing. Yeah, it was couched as a way to help the staff, but it hurt us. And I wondered, but never asked, how doubling the prices of things would help us in our goal of clearing the planet. :confused2:

The point of it, was to get people to "buy now". If the price was going to increase rapidly, it actually would make economic sense to take out a loan now, in order to lock in the price.

The problem was, that they couldn't stop increasing the prices without crashing the gross income. People had gotten loans to buy up lots of services, and were working hard to get more money. If prices stopped rising, then people would stop taking out loans, and work on paying off their loans and credit card bills, and trying to actually get delivery of the services they already bought.

Meanwhile, new people who hadn't bought their services, were coming to the realization that there was no way they would EVER be able to afford their OT levels.

The problem with riding the tiger, is how to get off without getting eaten.

 

[AngeloV]

hmmm

Riverside???

I don't think disconnection or the RPF is a bad thing. I have heard about many people on the RPF that say it really wasn't horrible. But these latter stories of the RPF...not the same thing.

Bold mine. You are extremely naive to say this. People's lives have been utterly destroyed due to disconnection. You must have a very, very limited knowledge of scientology to say that. I urge you to spend some time reading the disconnection threads here.

 

[JustSheila]

I don't think disconnection or the RPF is a bad thing. I have heard about many people on the RPF that say it really wasn't horrible. But these latter stories of the RPF...not the same thing.

That's interesting, because that is also what the most dedicated of scientologists believe, too, that no matter how many stories they hear or read of lives and families ripped apart and destroyed by disconnection, no matter how many people are tortured, brainwashed, imprisoned, abused and even died on the RPF from lack of proper care or conditions, somewhere they heard a story of someone or other who at some point said their particular RPF in that particular place in the world at that particular time wasn't so bad. Someone who is still a fully believing, practicing scientologist said it of course.

But scientologists lie. They lie to protect the church's PR, they lie because telling the truth would make others wonder why they stay with such an abusive orgnaization.

The RPF is imprisonment. It has always been horrible. It was horrible and the most traumatic, abusive experience of my life when I did it in 1985-1986, it was a horrible, sadistic, abusive practice in the early 80s when they lived like rats in the tunnels, it was a horrible thing in the 70s and even on the ship, when they were degraded and left with nothing but scraps to eat, no showers and treated like dogs. There are rare instances in remote places during short periods of time when this was not the case. These are the rare exceptions, rather than the rule. I knew hundreds of people personally who were abused on the RPF in the 70s and 80s and none of them would ever say it was "good."

Treating people like dogs is not "good" for anybody. Forced imprisonment without legal recourse is a human rights abuse. Power crazed cult fanatics who enforce the disconnection of parents from their children is not "good." It isn't now and it never was. It is abuse, plain and simple.

 

[Anonycat]

hmmm

Riverside???

I don't think disconnection or the RPF is a bad thing. I have heard about many people on the RPF that say it really wasn't horrible. But these latter stories of the RPF...not the same thing.

Wow! This one woman said under oath, that she was made to stand in a trash can while ice water was dumped on her head for 16 hours, as 100 people slapped her and yelled at her. What are your crimes?! Are you a lesbian?

Sounds better than a normal life, right? And then sleeping on a floor with those 100 people with ants crawling over you. Under 24 hour guard so you can't escape, and being completely cut off from family and the entire outside world. And no, there's no cable TV. No contact with the world, and the food is literally slop. If there is a more horrible life of daily torture that goes on for years in the US, please illuminate. Thanks!

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

The point of it, was to get people to "buy now". If the price was going to increase rapidly, it actually would make economic sense to take out a loan now, in order to lock in the price.

The problem was, that they couldn't stop increasing the prices without crashing the gross income. People had gotten loans to buy up lots of services, and were working hard to get more money. If prices stopped rising, then people would stop taking out loans, and work on paying off their loans and credit card bills, and trying to actually get delivery of the services they already bought.

Meanwhile, new people who hadn't bought their services, were coming to the realization that there was no way they would EVER be able to afford their OT levels.

The problem with riding the tiger, is how to get off without getting eaten.

Right. I was in the SO when the “Inflation Policy” was put into effect. Like the Cash for Clunkers scheme and Abenomic’s sales tax increases, these may spur short term economic activity but it ends up being at the cost of future activity. You just move future sales forward but because the effect is generally regressive future sales are less than they normally would be. Trading out sales for Safe Environment Fund or IAS donations had the same effect.

LRH was getting sick, the FBI were raiding, Mary Sue was going to jail - he needed to beef up the bug out bag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abenomics

///
Anatole Kaletsky was an early supporter[22] of Abenomics, but since the Japanese government decided to raise the country's consumption tax rate to 10 percent, he expressed his concern that the tax hike could deal a more devastating blow to Japanese economy than expected. In 1997, the Japanese government raised the rate to 5 percent from 3 percent to tackle its debt of 50 percent of its GDP at that time, promising that the tax hike would be offset[23] by income-tax reforms. But the tax hike ended up making the domestic consumption stumble, pushing the economy into recession. The country fell into[24] a deflationary trap. Due to the country's long-running malaise, the government gross debt reached 200 percent of its GDP despite the increase of the sales tax. The IMF forecast that the tax hike in 2014 would cut Japan's economic growth from 2.5 percent in 2013 to 1.4 percent in 2014, but Kaletsky argues that this economic downturn is underestimated.
///

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

hmmm

Riverside???

I don't think disconnection or the RPF is a bad thing. I have heard about many people on the RPF that say it really wasn't horrible. But these latter stories of the RPF...not the same thing.

The Church’s party line is the RPF is a voluntary LRH Technical Program with co-auditing and people are only assigned to it after all other milder ethics gradients such as Boards of Investigation, Hearings and Committees of Evidence have been exhausted. The reality is very different.

But to play the devil’s advocate, Chuck Beatty has made some statements to the effect that it wasn’t as bad as one might think. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that what Chuck meant to imply between the lines is that compared to the nightmarish hell and stress of regular post the RPF for him was like getting a break.

But all the day-to-day abuse of the RPF aside, just the fact that people could arbitrarily be removed from post, stripped of rank, have a long derogatory list of humiliating kangaroo court transgressions passed around to your co-workers on goldenrod, and then isolated in substandard quarters where you can’t speak or argue your position - is in itself a very brutal treatment. Imagine that being done to you regardless of years or decades of loyal service in any business or organization.
_________________________________
http://www.lermanet.com/chuck_beatty/

Jan 89 to Feb 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), the one for the uplines people, situated at Happy Valley ranch, 14 miles from the Int Base, adjacent to the Svoboba Indian reservation. Enjoyed it, but that's me. Thought the people were generally great, both at the Int Base and on the RPF. Much milder than the "bad old days" so horrendously documented on the internet by older-timers than me.
Feb 89 to May 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) at the big blue building, (the "Complex,") in LA. Again, a great time for me. I loved the work. There were 240 plus people on the PAC RPF then. Worked 2 shifts, finishing the renovations on the HGB (Hollywood Guarantee Building, middle management building on Hollywood Blvd, just down the street from the Hollywood Inn).

 

[JustSheila]

Here is Hana Eltringham's and others' RPF experiences with L Ron Hubbard. Horrible.

[video=youtube;SdvJbkFz5mo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdvJbkFz5mo[/video]

Here is another horrible RPF experience (begins on video at 1800):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0Ny-nb8yM

Amy Scobee describes her RPF experience in an interview and in her book, "Scientology Abuse at the Top":

The Rehabilitation Project Force (or RPF) is described by the church as a program offering a second chance to Sea Org members who have become unproductive or have strayed from the church's codes, involving intensive physical labor at church facilities and auditing and study sessions to address the individual's personal problems. I have a much harsher definition after spending a total of 5 ½ years on this program: A controlled slave labor camp to which is assigned anyone arbitrarily deemed a liability for actions (or thoughts) considered to be in opposition to the group.

If one gets in trouble while on the RPF program, they can be sent to the RPF’s RPF, which is a mandatory two week sentence and could take longer. One is segregated from the rest of the RPF and suffers twice the penalties of a regular RPF member, works longer hours, gets no pay and experiences other such restrictions. Men and women are not treated differently – as a Scientologist, they think they are not their body but spiritual beings, able to endure anything. You are expected to be able to perform any duty, no matter the excuse. I did all sorts of degrading jobs as a member of the RPF's RPF, including hand shoveling a literal mountain of fermented and maggot-infested garbage for days. Several of these stories are included in my book so one can get the details of what really goes on to "handle" staff members in Scientology.

https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Author_Amy_Scobee_recounts_abuse_as_Scientology_executive

More true RPF stories:

https://xscientologywomen.com/category/rpf-rehabilitation-project-force/

http://ragingbuddha.net/how-i-left-...oingclear-is-the-most-important-film-of-2015/

http://www.scientology-cult.com/the-rpf.html

 

[Veda]

-snip-

http://www.lermanet.com/chuck_beatty/

Jan 89 to Feb 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), the one for the uplines people, situated at Happy Valley ranch, 14 miles from the Int Base, adjacent to the Svoboba Indian reservation. Enjoyed it, but that's me. Thought the people were generally great, both at the Int Base and on the RPF. Much milder than the "bad old days" so horrendously documented on the internet by older-timers than me.
Feb 89 to May 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) at the big blue building, (the "Complex,") in LA. Again, a great time for me. I loved the work. There were 240 plus people on the PAC RPF then. Worked 2 shifts, finishing the renovations on the HGB (Hollywood Guarantee Building, middle management building on Hollywood Blvd, just down the street from the Hollywood Inn).

Having a pleasurable experience working as de facto slave labor - as a "degraded being" in need of "redemption" - for a mental-healing-coated destructive-mind-control cult.

Reminiscent of old prison inmates fondly recalling how things were better under the new warden and how great it was to have freshly baked muffins every other Sunday.

Scientology isn't what it claims to be. It never was what it claimed to be.

One could argue that Disconnection, The RPF, and even Fair Game are justified, I suppose, if Scientology actually delivered what it promised: "Total Freedom" and "Total Power," and Hubbard made millions selling these two things - which were at the top of the Grade Chart during Scientology's period of greatest expansion - and he never had them to sell. It was fraud.