Hello! I'm Paladin.

Gib

Crusader
Thanks for the advice but I have learned that when I stand outside on a Chicago street for 3 hours that I need to dress for comfort. And yelling at people just feels wrong for me even if I was just trying to make a point. :coolwink:

I understand about the weather, but think about it for a cool day.

On yelling was a joke, but speak scientology terms and it will get thru. ARCX, KRC, you know.

Of course they will turn away or try to "handle".

On signs, IMO, they are trained to think scientology is the most valuable thing in the world, so claiming it costs a lot doesn't communicate. Put yourself in their shoes, what communication from a protestor would communicate to "think" or doubt.

One protestor told me once when I was in, that somebody paid $350,000 to become OT8 and found it didn't work. In my mind at the time, I was still in, I told the protestor what fool would pay $350K and find out it didn't work? I didn't believe the protestor and thought he was lying, it just didn't communicate to me at the time.

What would have communicated to me? How come the Tech keeps changing? Something like that, a gradient is better if you ask me on signs.

It's like this, on a comparison, how are you going to tell a full blown Christian religious person that their religion is BS, their is no god. They won't listen to you, they believe with all their hearts.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Hey Paladin!

So glad you have stopped by and hope you get to hear from some peeps that were in the SO when you were.

During those times I sat with you guys, eating pizza after a protest, I had no idea that you were actually in Scientology for a bit. I thought you had a similar history to the rest of the Anons in Chi-Town. This is interesting to find out!

Well, if Dave Fagen and me leaving is your only success story, I hope you still consider it a big one. :) I am sure the Chicago Org considers a big loss.

My opinion, you are making a dent but I am sure it can be disheartening at times. I very much appreciate what you do and you will see me there again. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :hug:
 

Paladin

Patron
Hey Paladin!

So glad you have stopped by and hope you get to hear from some peeps that were in the SO when you were.

During those times I sat with you guys, eating pizza after a protest, I had no idea that you were actually in Scientology for a bit. I thought you had a similar history to the rest of the Anons in Chi-Town. This is interesting to find out!

Well, if Dave Fagen and me leaving is your only success story, I hope you still consider it a big one. :) I am sure the Chicago Org considers a big loss.

My opinion, you are making a dent but I am sure it can be disheartening at times. I very much appreciate what you do and you will see me there again. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :hug:

Thanks Sindy!

I didn't say anything to you about my Scientology experience because I was much more interested in hearing what you had to say. The people at the Chicago org didn't know me when I was in Scientology and can disregard what I say. But they certainly know you! I wasn't able to be at the protest last August, when you were there, but I saw the video. You did great! I'm sure you had a huge impact on them. I very much look forward to seeing you at another Chicago protest soon.:thumbsup:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to this here First Class Rodeo, Paladin. :clap:

So glad you are here with all of Us. :yes:

'78 was a most excellent time to leave. :thumbsup:

I was Flag Crew from the very early '70's to the mid '80's. I was pretty high up the food chain when you were there and it is very doubtful we ever met or interacted. :no:

I knew a few Chicagolanders during my Flag years...including Rick Sheahy & Jon Horwich. :ohmy:

You gots stones, Bro. :coolwink:

Best Wishes,

Face:)

PS: IIRCC, summer of '78 was during the L1 R/S freakout.:omg:
 
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Paladin

Patron
Welcome to this here First Class Rodeo, Paladin. :clap:

So glad you are here with all of Us. :yes:

'78 was a most excellent time to leave. :thumbsup:

I was Flag Crew from the very early '70's to the mid '80's. I was pretty high up the food chain when you were there and it is very doubtful we ever met or interacted. :no:

I new a few Chicagolanders during my Flag years...including Rick Sheahy & Jon Horwich. :ohmy:

You gots stones, Bro. :coolwink:

Best Wishes,

Face:)

PS: IIRCC, summer of '78 was during the L1 R/S freakout.:omg:

Great to hear from you!

Perhaps we didn't meet but we may have known the same people. Did you know any of the people in the evaluators department? There were 2 very nice young women from South Africa who worked there. One of them was in-charge of that department. I've forgotten their names after so many years but I would remember them if I heard them again. I never had a chance to talk to them or say good-bye after a course supervisor made whatever wild accusation about me that, thankfully, led to my departure from Scientology. I would like to thank that supervisor for helping me to get kicked-out. Do you remember any of the course supervisors back then?
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome Paladin. I was happy to hear that you actually took the time to physically protest. I have as well. I protested in Los Angeles at the complex. I am in Austin now and have yet to go over to the org but I am open to it.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great to hear from you!

Perhaps we didn't meet but we may have known the same people. Did you know any of the people in the evaluators department? There were 2 very nice young women from South Africa who worked there. One of them was in-charge of that department. I've forgotten their names after so many years but I would remember them if I heard them again. I never had a chance to talk to them or say good-bye after a course supervisor made whatever wild accusation about me that, thankfully, led to my departure from Scientology. I would like to thank that supervisor for helping me to get kicked-out. Do you remember any of the course supervisors back then?

I'll have wait awhile and see what "echoes wake up".

From what you have written, you were most likely in the Flag Bureaux at that time. I did a stint in the Flag Bureaux on the Apollo but was not in the Flag Bureaux at that time. I also did a stint as an Evaluator on the Apollo but there were many, many changes in the FB Personnel from the ship days to '78 and the crew compliment had more than doubled.

Steve Foley or Mike Eldridge, or both, may have been one of your Course Sups. One of the SA Evaluators may have been Edy Lundeen or Sue Watson, or both.

If my memory serves well, ESMB Member chuckbeatty was the Course Admin at that time and is a great guy, with excellent memory and is a world of help.

Hope this helps.:yes:

Face:)
 
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still here

Patron with Honors
I'm very excited to hear from someone who was at Flag near the time that I was there. My sign says " Scientology clears bank accounts" on one side and "Scientology turns family into Wogs" on the other. I wanted my sign to stick to the issues of money and family which everyone can relate to. We protest right outside their doors. We have told them that we care about them. They don't seem to accept that.

Based on what we know of the Chicago members, I believe most have the material resources to leave if they want to. It seems to be a mental enslavement that holds them in. They stubbornly refuse to listen to what we say or simply disregard us. When I told one man that I understood Scientology because I had been in it for 2 years, he replied that he had been in for 22 years. So they think that we don't know what we are talking about.

I was recruited for the SO to be an evaluator. Did you know any of the evaluators back then? The woman in charge of the evaluators wanted me to train to be an auditor. After 2 months, a course supervisor interrupted my training and began yelling at me. I had no idea what I had done wrong and still don't to this day. I spent the next month or so working in the laundry room and cleaning hotel rooms while sometimes being interrogated on the e-meter. Then I was told to leave. I was done with Scientology after that.

Hello Paladin

No I am afraid that I do not recall any evaluators. (but Hi anyway!) :)

I was training in the ITO (the international training org..or the beginning of it) The courseroom was in the ballroom at the top of the FH (no air conditioning and very hot - nearly melted little English me!) My supervisor was Al Baker and my intern supervisor, Mike Eldridge.

It is all so long ago (and my memory is awful) I really don't remember many other people, (all my time was in the course room, and I completed within 3 months and returned to the UK)

I hope you find your friends, and I am impressed that you are persisting with the protests. Like so many things we do that are right and good, we do not always see immediate results, or any results, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

Seeds may be planted that grow worries and doubts. Leaving Scientology can be a long process and the staff and public may not even know what started the run up to their eventually leaving.

Good luck.
Still
 
Welcome Paladin.

I missed you at flag I was there, training at the end of 1977.

I was very impressed that you go on these protests outside an Org.
I am sure it can be very boring and deflating, and I have never done anything like it!

Thinking on what Purple Rain said, about them knowing you were there to help, I wondered if they do know that?

For example, what do you have on your signs?

I know that often, especially at big events, (from protests I have seen) signs are about the general abuse and bs staff (and public come to that) are fed, but I wondered if there are signs that tell staff someone would help them or support them if they are feeling pressured, tired, sad, lonely or bullied and at a loss? (believe me, they will feel those things...) Mmaking the break can be very frightening for some, no confidence, no friends, no support and no life outside. If they leave what will happen to them?

Anyway, just a thought.

Do tell your story and what happened to you in the SO.

Still :yes:

no protesting isn't boring and deflating...

there's an esprit to it and groovy beings tend to savor esprit
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hello Paladin

No I am afraid that I do not recall any evaluators. (but Hi anyway!) :)

I was training in the ITO (the international training org..or the beginning of it) The courseroom was in the ballroom at the top of the FH (no air conditioning and very hot - nearly melted little English me!) My supervisor was Al Baker and my intern supervisor, Mike Eldridge.

It is all so long ago (and my memory is awful) I really don't remember many other people, (all my time was in the course room, and I completed within 3 months and returned to the UK)

I hope you find your friends, and I am impressed that you are persisting with the protests. Like so many things we do that are right and good, we do not always see immediate results, or any results, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

Seeds may be planted that grow worries and doubts. Leaving Scientology can be a long process and the staff and public may not even know what started the run up to their eventually leaving.

Good luck.
Still

Wow...I'd forgotten good Ole Ensign Al Baker...We were shipmates on the Apollo. The ITO was at one time or another in the CB and the FH Ballroom and, for various periods of time, Greg Wilhere and Bill Franks were the Honchos...I just don't remember when it was where and who was what then. IIRCC, Foley & Eldridge came to Flag after the move to CW. I think Lundeen was on the Apollo sometime in the early '70's, went back to SA, and then came back in the latter '70's and, thinking about it now, was probably not at Flag in the summer of '78. Watson was Flag crew from early '70's on.

Anyway, I'm cogitatin' and 'numeratin' on all this, Paladin...bet Beatty has it all down cold for what you're lookin' for. :yes:


Face:)

EDIT PS: OOPS! My brain damaged geriatric synapses have gone into overload: it was Ensign Al Boughton ...married to Fran and posted in Qual...that was my Shipmate on the Apollo...I vaguely recall the name "Al Baker" from back then.:blush:
 
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Paladin

Patron
I want to thank everyone for the encouragement to continue protesting.

I also want to thank Face and Still for the names they could remember. I can remember the faces more than the names of the course supervisors back then.

I guess the one name that I'm really curious about is that of the supervisor that had me thrown off course. The last course that I took was taught on the mezzanine level above the ballroom floor. When I started that course there was another supervisor but he got in trouble for blowing for a few days to go see his girlfriend who was at some other org. When that supervisor returned he was made to work in the restaurant of the FH making milkshakes and such.

The guy who replaced him around August of 78 was about 5'7", longish blondish hair, skinny, early 20's. On his first day in class he told us about some recent experience that he had. He said something about how he felt like a mask had been removed from his face and he could breath again. I thought he was talking about recovering from an accident or illness. Now I think he may have been talking about leaving the RPF or something like that. I knew very little about the RPF back then.
 

ClearEyed

Patron with Honors
...

I guess the one name that I'm really curious about is that of the supervisor that had me thrown off course. The last course that I took was taught on the mezzanine level above the ballroom floor. When I started that course there was another supervisor but he got in trouble for blowing for a few days to go see his girlfriend who was at some other org. When that supervisor returned he was made to work in the restaurant of the FH making milkshakes and such.

The guy who replaced him around August of 78 was about 5'7", longish blondish hair, skinny, early 20's. On his first day in class he told us about some recent experience that he had. He said something about how he felt like a mask had been removed from his face and he could breath again. I thought he was talking about recovering from an accident or illness. Now I think he may have been talking about leaving the RPF or something like that. I knew very little about the RPF back then.

July/August 78 was around the time of the big RPF reprieve at the FLB. RPFers were given the chance to leave the SO with no condition assignments and no F/L debt. As I recall, a small percentage of RPFers took advantage of that, maybe 20-25 more or less. Most stayed and were assigned to other Flag orgs, so your supe could very well have been a former RPFer.

Anyway, I was there at Flag at the time. We probably didn't cross paths, though. I was double-hatted in two different areas, and was also putting a lot of effort in trying to convince myself that I was right in not taking advantage of the earlier opportunity to leave.

Good on you for your protest efforts. I like the signs you described. I recall a few anti-scientology protests when I was at Flag. The impact they had on me at the time was that the protestors were uninformed and misled at best, and were xenophobic and hateful at worst. They all seemed to be locals with no direct knowlege or involvement in scientology. From what I could tell, those protests had the effect of creating a circle the wagons mentality in the staff. But I sometimes think that if any of the protestors had shown a desire to help individual staff members, or indicated compassion and interest in the staff, I might have taken them up on it, and possibly others would have, too. As it was, I only felt that the protestors were holding us all up to insult and ridicule.

I have not been to any of the recent org protests, so can't speak to those. I can only explain my own experience, which was during a very different era.
 
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Paladin

Patron
One of the few names that I remembered from Flag was Hanna Eltringham. I was recruited for the SO in San Diego at an event that featured Suzette Hubbard as the guest speaker. I was in the navy and still needed to serve for a few more months before I could leave for Flag. During those months Hanna wrote to me to encourage me to come to Flag.

When I arrived at Flag in June of 78, I was hoping to meet Hanna face-to-face. I was told that she had an ethics problem and was being rehabilitated. One day, I was working on a project for the evaluators and needed to borrow a tool. My supervisor sent me to the RPF area to borrow it. I saw a tall woman standing in a line with a few other people. She responded when someone yelled "Hanna". I was sure this was the woman who wrote to me. I wanted to say hello. I didn't know much about the RPF but I instinctively knew that I shouldn't talk to her. I got what I came for and quickly left.

I read Hanna's story on the internet a few years ago.
 

Paladin

Patron
When people protest at Chicago are they ever confronted by a man who claims that he "thmells puthy"?

Rd00

Not since I have been there but we did have a scientologist show-up wearing a Star Wars wampa mask and recently a Scientology woman grabbed a sign from one of our protesters. But mostly they just pull down the blinds and stay inside until we leave.
 

Spirit

just another son of God
BTW, my name Paladin is from the holy knights of the fantasy role-playing games, not the TV western. My avatar is Shinning Knight from DC Comics cause I like super heroes.:thumbsup:
Welcome Paladin. I can't help but think of the theme song from Have Gun Will Travel when I hear the name Paladin.
 
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