HELLO. THIS IS MY FIRST POST EVER, ANYWHERE.

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
George Baillie has been positively identified by several ex-Scns, and a simple internet search reveals that he completed OTVIII back in 1990. At first, I thought he had just gone off the deep end. But on closer inspection of what he actually said, it is obviously that he was attempting to cave me in by the use of reverse Dianetics and introverting statements such as “You are stuck in an electronic incident.” and accusing me of beating my wife etc. :eyeroll:

I don’t know what happened to George after I posted the video, I’ve not seen him around. I hope he didn’t get into too much trouble, he was just doing what he thought he should, i.e. defending the Führer, er, I mean COB, and using the Tech to shatter a source of suppression (me).

And to be fair, I do seem to make a habit of upsetting people and driving them to apoplectic rage without meaning to. :ohmy:

Axiom142


:roflmao: Ok, well even so..... he did seem to be doing what you said above. Really, really trying hard to shut you up. Other than that it was just plain weird. First attacking, them seeming to try to help you, then evaluate for you and try to cave you in and let you know how f**ked up you were, then walking away with this crazy laugh. Looked like he was really struggling with it....just didn't know what to do to handle it. Couldn't handle it. Actually, while I was watching and listening to you, I thought you maintained good control and let him speak and make that fool of himself. Poor fellow......
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome Imortal, :welcome2:
I am new here as of today. I read your story when you posted it. I could relate to all of it. Very glad you are freely posting. I have lurked for some time and am experiencing great relief myself.

On the computer nanny net things and those "I am a scientologist" web pages....We had to sign off that we did one or somehow report we had done it. I made it a point to somehow get around that...I was suspicious of it then and glad I was. Again, diet-Kool-aid. :cheers2:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Welcome Imortal, :welcome2:
I am new here as of today. I read your story when you posted it. I could relate to all of it. Very glad you are freely posting. I have lurked for some time and am experiencing great relief myself.

On the computer nanny net things and those "I am a scientologist" web pages....We had to sign off that we did one or somehow report we had done it. I made it a point to somehow get around that...I was suspicious of it then and glad I was. Again, diet-Kool-aid. :cheers2:

Heellloooo! I'm so glad you are here. Thank you for reading my post and posting yourself. It's so good to hear from you. I lurked for a while, took that great step and posted and it has been sooo good for me. I am happy to hear you are experiencing great relief yourself. I am looking forward to reading your story soon.

Yeee-ah. I just didn't like the idea of loading something on my computer when I didn't know what it was. I am still askirt of it. I've had some bad experiences doing that which have caused me a lot of trouble. I do trust the person who recommended I load the program earlier in this thread now after having read the other thread. But I found the answers I needed so don't feel I need to load that.

WELCOME!!! :wave:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hm. I don't know if I can be much help on this.

1. I was on staff and saw the Anons from inside the building protesting outside. Staff and public are told not look because of the potentially confidential information on the signs, T-shirt or posters. So, if the purpose is to get Scns to look, my suggestion would be to stop using confidential words or information. Maybe then..... I don't know.


6. The only people I have ever seen it proposed to possibly get involved in a conversation with Anons, and I don't know if it ever really happened, was OTVIIIs. And this is probably because of the potential confidential information issue. Otherwise, it's usually the legal person in the organization, who could be any case level or nowhere on the bridge.

I think this don't read because it contains confidential info was so successful when the Xenu story was published in the LA Times that they just kept using it...for every anti-Scn article. Then it rolled right over to Anonymous. A great way to get people not to look.

Well! That was very interesting. I had no idea that they were blocking all these sites and all these search words. (I went to the thread you linked.) This was about 1999, you say? Un-F***ing-believable! I'm just stopped in my tracks, my jaw is hanging. This program was never installed on my computer but to think that all these years ago, this happened and I didn't know about it??!?!?!? That's what is astounding to me! :grouch:

And another control mechanism. You will be astounded over and over at the amount of stuff that Scn has hidden from you. Scn is very scared of the internet. All it's dirty laundry is being aired here, and it has plenty! I was in the SO for 6 years and I've been reading about Scn on the internet for about four years and I still find stuff from time to time that truly shocks me. Just when you think you've heard it all, another doozy comes along.
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I think this don't read because it contains confidential info was so successful when the Xenu story was published in the LA Times that they just kept using it...for every anti-Scn article. Then it rolled right over to Anonymous. A great way to get people not to look.



And another control mechanism. You will be astounded over and over at the amount of stuff that Scn has hidden from you. Scn is very scared of the internet. All it's dirty laundry is being aired here, and it has plenty! I was in the SO for 6 years and I've been reading about Scn on the internet for about four years and I still find stuff from time to time that truly shocks me. Just when you think you've heard it all, another doozy comes along.

Yes, it works quite well to keep people from looking and messing up their case if they're not OTIII. I had NO IDEA there was so much "dirty laundry". :omg:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I hope WO doesn't mind me answering the part about Astra's vid.

Astra was one of the founders of Ex Scientology Kids, the first forum I joined, and I believe I have read all of her posts. We also exchanged a couple of emails, so I feel I know her a little from an internet perspective.

To get the full picture, you might want to listen to all the Woodcraft family videos, which can be found at the following link:

http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?cat=173

Click on the names of Astra, Zoe, and Lawrence (their father) and you can see interviews with each of them.


Ok. I think I missed answering this one. Thanks so much. I watched the Tory vids and did want the link to these. This will go on my to do list, too.
:yes:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
in amongst all the same old skid marks, there's a few jewels

the "best" search result i got was for "Tom Klemesrud" - which brings up the story of "Miss Bloodybutt" - www.skeptictank.org/hs/mbb.htm <----extreme dirty washing
- i made comments at the time and this lot on here were like "yeah yeah we know old news is OLD"

Yes, it's old but it's still new news to anyone who is recently out. Not the sort of stuff OSA advertises in their help wanted ads. Anyone who hasn't read this, don't miss this one. It's up there with Musical Chairs as a classic "this is what the cult doesn't want you to read" item.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, it works quite well to keep people from looking and messing up their case if they're not OTIII. I had NO IDEA there was so much "dirty laundry". :omg:

Honestly, I don't think OT III messes up most people's case. I've read it, didn't mess up mine. I think the years and years mystery sandwich and the enforced "you must get here" messed up my case more than OT III could have.

Do I think Inc. 1 and 2 were true?

Maybe for Ron.

Lots of people here who ran them either a) thought they weren't true for themselves and didn't get gains from the level; or b) thought they weren't true for themselves and got gains from the level despite that.

About the dirty laundry: there's a ton, and especially for the SO, but outside the SO, it's mostly around control issues around money and relationships.

Once you realize that it's the person who can give the most to the CofS who's always in the right in any justice action, it starts to become clearer.

~t
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
the "best" search result i got was for "Tom Klemesrud" - which brings up the story of "Miss Bloodybutt" - www.skeptictank.org/hs/mbb.htm <----extreme dirty washing
- i made comments at the time and this lot on here were like "yeah yeah we know old news is OLD"

It's worth noting that there are some hardcore critics who think Klemesrud made that part of the story up at the time. The scenario's straight out of Mission Earth.
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Honestly, I don't think OT III messes up most people's case. I've read it, didn't mess up mine. I think the years and years mystery sandwich and the enforced "you must get here" messed up my case more than OT III could have.

Do I think Inc. 1 and 2 were true?

Maybe for Ron.

Lots of people here who ran them either a) thought they weren't true for themselves and didn't get gains from the level; or b) thought they weren't true for themselves and got gains from the level despite that.

About the dirty laundry: there's a ton, and especially for the SO, but outside the SO, it's mostly around control issues around money and relationships.

Once you realize that it's the person who can give the most to the CofS who's always in the right in any justice action, it starts to become clearer.

~t

Ooops, I didn't write that very well. I didn't mean that if people looked they'd mess up their case. What I meant to say, but didn't very well, was that the statement of CofS for people not to look because it would mess up their case worked well to keep people from looking because they didn't want to mess up their case and cause themselves all kinds of undue trouble.

You're right about the different types of dirty laundry with SO vs public. I saw that in the public sector but had no idea it was the way it was in the SO. There were hints of abuse, but not like I've been reading. :omg:

I'm going to be reading everything I can, as soon as I can. Thanks! :yes:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
in amongst all the same old skid marks, there's a few jewels

the "best" search result i got was for "Tom Klemesrud" - which brings up the story of "Miss Bloodybutt" - www.skeptictank.org/hs/mbb.htm <----extreme dirty washing
- i made comments at the time and this lot on here were like "yeah yeah we know old news is OLD"

Thanks for this link. I've heard this "bloodybutt" thing mentioned before but don't know anything about it. Now I can find out... :yes:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Yes, it's old but it's still new news to anyone who is recently out. Not the sort of stuff OSA advertises in their help wanted ads. Anyone who hasn't read this, don't miss this one. It's up there with Musical Chairs as a classic "this is what the cult doesn't want you to read" item.

:hysterical: Well! If OSA doesn't want me to read it....point the way!!!
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
You Might As Well Get To The Bottom

IMMORTAL;

Be well rested and fed and don't do this near bedtime. Sit down.

Go to Google and put in "Meade Emory, Founder".

Click on the top site. Go to the menu on the left. Read all 5 items.

Then ask yourself if you think the tech has remained "standard",

or has been systematically Sabotaged due to the purpose of those in control.


After that you might look at Knowledgism a subject which is still pure in form
and superior to Scientology, and still available for a little while.
Did you look yet at "Alan" 's "Opening Pandora's Box" ?
Alan BTW originated the tech of correction lists, which saved a lot of lives at Saint Hill from 1963 on.

If all of this breaks your reality, Sorry.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ooops, I didn't write that very well. I didn't mean that if people looked they'd mess up their case. What I meant to say, but didn't very well, was that the statement of CofS for people not to look because it would mess up their case worked well to keep people from looking because they didn't want to mess up their case and cause themselves all kinds of undue trouble.

Gotcha.

You're right about the different types of dirty laundry with SO vs public. I saw that in the public sector but had no idea it was the way it was in the SO. There were hints of abuse, but not like I've been reading. :omg:

There was one situation I was partially aware of, and now that I know more, I can sketch what the rest of the picture must have been, but I certainly didn't know how bad it was either.
 

Consensus

Patron with Honors
:hysterical: Well! If OSA doesn't want me to read it....point the way!!!

I *REALLY* like the cut of your jib.

This is the best attitude any ex can take.

edit - I hope you take the same attitude with respect to any literature exes/critics/anons would keep you from, though there really isn't any - they (for the most part) embrace freedom of information.

In the end, I think this point is a strong indictment of Hubbard himself. Any good philosophy will foster a curiosity about the world. Hubbard works to kill curiosity, and limit the information you'll seek. Similarly, good systems will teach you to research. Hubbard claims a monopoly on research and wants you to feed on his scraps, consuming only the conclusions he's custom-built for you. That's bad scholarship.
 
Last edited:

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I *REALLY* like the cut of your jib.

This is the best attitude any ex can take.

edit - I hope you take the same attitude with respect to any literature exes/critics/anons would keep you from, though there really isn't any - they (for the most part) embrace freedom of information.

In the end, I think this point is a strong indictment of Hubbard himself. Any good philosophy will foster a curiosity about the world. Hubbard works to kill curiosity, and limit the information you'll seek. Similarly, good systems will teach you to research. Hubbard claims a monopoly on research and wants you to feed on his scraps, consuming only the conclusions he's custom-built for you. That's bad scholarship.


Thanks! You know, here's where I've made my mistake. Well, one mistake. I let someone else do the research and took their conclusions without spending time to do the work myself. Sigh. I think I've learnt a lesson. It'd be hard to admit that the people who told me over the years that this was a scam were right. I just may have to do this. But, before I go there, I'm going to do the work in research to my satisfaction.

I would consider your edit about killing curiosity, monopolizing the research and taking only his conclusions to be another method of control of the person. You're right. Basically saying don't look elsewhere and come up with your own decisions about it. I've made all them for you here. Now, just open up and swallow. :omg:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Gotcha.



There was one situation I was partially aware of, and now that I know more, I can sketch what the rest of the picture must have been, but I certainly didn't know how bad it was either.

Sigh. It's quite a lot of bad. And I've only scratched the surface.
 
Top