Hello to you all

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Gottabrain

Guest
In the FZ I can't recall anyone who didn't like OT 3. I may not have heard of any who didn't. Don't recall anyone saying they didn't like it or want to do it. Good results are attainable in my own experience and in that of others in the FZ.

Might be interesting to have a thread on this issue or a poll.

Terril, you are an FSM For the FZ. To date, you have never said anything negative about the FZ or anything it delivers. If the FZ auditors have the same "promote promote promote" view you do and refuse to ever say any thing the least bit negative about the FZ as you do, what sort of honest answers do you expect?

Do you think ANYone ever told me about the OT3 blows or told anyone else? I would never have known if I had not known from my Call-In experience. If you are trying to say nobody in the FZ ever had doubts after reading OT3, then perhaps they were already more prepared for it from having read the Xenu story online. If a person hadn't already read it, they were nearly all at least disappointed. There have been far too many threads on here about the negative reactions from those who had read the OT3 materials for the first time. But I don't expect you to see or admit to these facts. We often have that problem between us.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Call in was a high priority in the 80s because AOLA had something like 800 million dollars in prepaid services that had not been delivered. Mostly OT1-3 packages and Solo - OT3 packages. Some paid as little as $3500 for these packages, others paid $12000-$18000 depending on the time period.

From what you say these people never started these services.
Why was that? Expensive and invalidative preps and eligibility? Or
other reasons?

As Kookaburra said, it is true the OT-3 sup doesn't let anyone leave after reading the OT-3 materials - even waits until after break for them to read it, makes sure they've gone to the bathroom, etc. It is true the sup knocks himself out to get the person to audit OT-3 the same day as reading the materials. Doesn't always happen, and even when it does, there are heaps of blows immediately afterward and it has been that way throughout AOLA's time. We had to call them back in. So I know.

Its a bit of a stretch to get them to audit the same day they read the OT3 course. IIRC in my leisurely FZ try was a few days before I started auditing.


I would say between 15-20% of those who read the OT-3 materials blew without completing OT-3 and had to be convinced to come back in. It was a real problem. So much so, that for at least a year we had one person assigned full time to call them back in. And we were calling in blows from all different time periods - late 60s to mid 80s. OT2 is weird, but without the weird theory that OT-3 has. No Xenu story there. And OT1 and OT2 are lightweight and fun, and if they didn't make sense, it was because people assumed it would all be explained on OT3. Plus OT1 had changed many times
over the years. After all, OT1 wasn't ever actually directly written by LRH.

Fascinating! Of those who blew, how many never started and how many blew after starting?

Don't consider OT 2 lightweight at all! Often went anaten on it. Separated from a theta clear on it. My favorite bridge level.



I learned firsthand from those that blew that they were hugely disappointed after reading OT-3. A large number left Scn altogether after that. They had high expectations and didn't expect a scifi story.

One can see here perhaps why the material was eventually given the status confidential.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Terril, you are an FSM For the FZ. To date, you have never said anything negative about the FZ or anything it delivers. If the FZ auditors have the same "promote promote promote" view you do and refuse to ever say any thing the least bit negative about the FZ as you do, what sort of honest answers do you expect?

Do you think ANYone ever told me about the OT3 blows or told anyone else? I would never have known if I had not known from my Call-In experience. If you are trying to say nobody in the FZ ever had doubts after reading OT3, then perhaps they were already more prepared for it from having read the Xenu story online. If a person hadn't already read it, they were nearly all at least disappointed. There have been far too many threads on here about the negative reactions from those who had read the OT3 materials for the first time. But I don't expect you to see or admit to these facts. We often have that problem between us.

Its probably the case that most in the FZ did see the materials beforehand. I did. In a sense that may select those who actually start it.
Many who are not scientologists and some who are consider the story nonsense. And have said so quite often.

I also consider the story nonsense, but consider the idea of separating from
other entities of various sorts to be valuable. I consider Pab 12 to be the reason it works. [ explosions are a basic of all engrams].
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Thank you for the specific answers, Terril.

Yes, the majority of unpaid services had never been to AOLA - were still at CL IV orgs. A large number of the undelivered funds were from (paper) transfers of money from Flag, other AOs and Cl IV orgs. (Money AOLA had not actually received, nor would) Perhaps 30% of this was actual monies paid directly to AOLA. AOLA had a problem with FSO and other orgs regging monies far beyond what they would deliver and sending paper transfers to AO for it. Frustrating for AOLA regges & Treasury personnel.

Different people called in the blows than those that called in the "never beens". Calling in the blows was so much harder.

OT Preps took at least 3-4 intensives. Most did not have this paid. Eligibility (sec checks) was estimated at that time to be between 1-2 intensives - it is much longer now. Intensives at AOLA cost $6000-$8000 each in the 80s. Lots of clear verification, but few were determined not to be clear. Those determined not clear did the old R6EW route.

Some clears had not had Grades so did these as part of their preps. I have no idea how it was decided who would or would not do those or why.

It is so odd I remember all this detail, but I do. Hope you don't mind I don't want to discuss the tech parts any more than what I've written here - it really does give me a headache to think in Scn terms like this again. I hope this info is helpful to you.

PS re blows - I can't say how many blows did absolutely no OT-3 auditing. The sup really tried to get them in session same day but it couldn't happen if the person was unsessionable. But I can tell you that the OT-3 blows - all of them that we had called in - had done little to no OT-3 auditing before blowing. Since I usually had to call in the tough ones personally, you can take that fact to the bank. ;)
 
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From what you say these people never started these services.
Why was that? Expensive and invalidative preps and eligibility? Or
other reasons?



Its a bit of a stretch to get them to audit the same day they read the OT3 course. IIRC in my leisurely FZ try was a few days before I started auditing.




Fascinating! Of those who blew, how many never started and how many blew after starting?

Don't consider OT 2 lightweight at all! Often went anaten on it. Separated from a theta clear on it. My favorite bridge level.





One can see here perhaps why the material was eventually given the status confidential.



Was it "eventually" given the status confidential or was it always confidential?
 

Farcyde

Patron
Let the Tail Begin (and wag the dog)

I would firstly like to say thank you to you all for the ack and the warm welcome. I have already seen some friends that were with me on staff and it is so encouraging to see that i am not alone.

It seems that the members here are right, the formation of the Ex community is taking on new proportions of magnitude and it would be great to have more out in the open communicating. I myself have been a silent voyeur for some time now and have felt a huge burden of relief in just saying how i feel. So thank you for being around to listen.

Last night i sat and thought very hard about how i would go about telling my story so that we don't get into the space opera stuff too quickly. But it seems you all pip'ed me at the post there. So lets start at the end and work our way back.

For someone at the lower end of the bridge when i came across the whole Xenu tale i initially was a bit dumbfounded, WHAT NONSENSE. But then through some evaluation i guess i get it.

When your religion is set up on conspiracy theories (the psychs are out to get us.. no the governments are there too.... hang on i thought it was the illuminate that were the ones) well, whats at the top. Its got to be the coup de gras of a theory and im using the word theory as there's in my view is no substance to the tail.... Well can you prove it or are we now delving into the realms of faith ( a very sticky road in my view).

Enter XENU the overlord , What the F. He was a real nasty piece of work now wasn't he (and you can dub in what you think i mean there). Well i have no intimate knowledge of the tall tail but it just sounds a bit puzzling to me. In the world of endless possibilities we get dumped with XENU i mean i can even pronounce his name, (maybe we had a chin wag back in the day on the terrace over a good glass of brandy and all) Sounds a little contrived if you ask me.

$ientology was very deer to me, I thought i had it ,me, I was one of the lucky ones. One of the new guys to really put ethics in on the planet, but i got to get rid off all those implanted bad thoughts and as a matter of coarse XENU and his body thetans geez man were does this stuff come from?? I could have imagined a better tail, Now couldn't you? :duh:

Just wanted to say.. More later
 
... For someone at the lower end of the bridge when i came across the whole Xenu tale i initially was a bit dumbfounded, WHAT NONSENSE. But then through some evaluation i guess i get it....

Taking xenu as the "basis of scientology", although a common practice, is the wrong way 'round. OT III wasn't "developed" until the '60s. Hubbard then revamped the already existing church around his new "tech development", principally by organizing the SO as some sort of dramatization of the whole mishmash. What was the proximate cause of that decent into lunacy is oft debated, but it is not an area for which there are definite answers.

The basic ideas underlying the subject of scientology were developed much earlier in the '50s. Most of the "good stuff" to be found in scientology dates either from that time, or is a further extension of ideas from that period.


Mark A. Baker
 

Clutch1.1

Patron
Greetings Farclyde.

:welcome:

Taking xenu as the "basis of scientology", although a common practice, is the wrong way 'round. OT III wasn't "developed" until the '60s. Hubbard then revamped the already existing church around his new "tech development", principally by organizing the SO as some sort of dramatization of the whole mishmash. What was the proximate cause of that decent into lunacy is oft debated, but it is not an area for which there are definite answers.

The basic ideas underlying the subject of scientology were developed much earlier in the '50s. Most of the "good stuff" to be found in scientology dates either from that time, or is a further extension of ideas from that period.

The "Wall of Fire" story may not be the basis of $cientology, but the secretive way Co$ go about denying it does make people wonder why it's such a big deal.
 

Farcyde

Patron
Taking xenu as the "basis of scientology", although a common practice, is the wrong way 'round. OT III wasn't "developed" until the '60s. Hubbard then revamped the already existing church around his new "tech development", principally by organizing the SO as some sort of dramatization of the whole mishmash. What was the proximate cause of that decent into lunacy is oft debated, but it is not an area for which there are definite answers.

The basic ideas underlying the subject of scientology were developed much earlier in the '50s. Most of the "good stuff" to be found in scientology dates either from that time, or is a further extension of ideas from that period.


Mark A. Baker


Thanks Mark,

I think we need to solidify the foundation, don't we??. My posting on the subject of XENU is what it is. I remember the line we used. Create a mystery sandwich. Add as much garnish to it so it will look attractive to all, so they want a bite. There you have the OT abilities garnish now don't you. You got to understand from my point of view you don't have a technology with out the desirable trappings of OT abilities. OT 1 through to 8 are integral to that. So Xenu is very important to the whole subject.

Yes the early stuff in scientology are a gradient introduction into the awakening of options (of belief) and i have always viewed that as interesting, but lets just drop the pretense of scientology the religion and call it for what it is........
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Greetings Farclyde.

:welcome:



The "Wall of Fire" story may not be the basis of $cientology, but the secretive way Co$ go about denying it does make people wonder why it's such a big deal.

The real reason is revealed in the HCOB "The Mystery Sandwich". How many people in Scientology hang in there through thick and thin and put up with so much crap and fork over heaps of money to finally be let in on this earth shattering secret that will salvage their soul for all eternity? The answer ---almost all of them.

The other reason why this level was picked as the ultimate secret is that it is so corny that no-one would bother with their OT levels if they knew about it ahead of time. Hubbard dreamed it up in a delusory state brought on by liberal use of alcohol and being stoned out of his mind.

pinks and greys
 

Farcyde

Patron
The real reason is revealed in the HCOB "The Mystery Sandwich". How many people in Scientology hang in there through thick and thin and put up with so much crap and fork over heaps of money to finally be let in on this earth shattering secret that will salvage their soul for all eternity? The answer ---almost all of them.

The other reason why this level was picked as the ultimate secret is that it is so corny that no-one would bother with their OT levels if they knew about it ahead of time. Hubbard dreamed it up in a delusory state brought on by liberal use of alcohol and being stoned out of his mind.

pinks and greys

Thanks Mark,

My posting on the subject of XENU is what it is. I remember the line we used. Create a mystery sandwich. Add as much garnish to it so it will look attractive to all, so they want a bite. There you have the OT abilities garnish now don't you. You got to understand from my point of view you don't have a technology with out the desirable trappings of OT abilities. OT 1 through to 8 are integral to that. So Xenu is very important to the whole subject.

Yes the early stuff in scientology are a gradient introduction into the awakening of options (of belief) and i have always viewed that as interesting, but lets just drop the pretense of scientology the religion and call it for what it is........

You said it.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Taking xenu as the "basis of scientology", although a common practice, is the wrong way 'round. OT III wasn't "developed" until the '60s. Hubbard then revamped the already existing church around his new "tech development", principally by organizing the SO as some sort of dramatization of the whole mishmash. What was the proximate cause of that decent into lunacy is oft debated, but it is not an area for which there are definite a
nswers.The basic ideas underlying the subject of scientology were developed much earlier in the '50s. Most of the "good stuff" to be found in scientology dates either from that time, or is a further extension of ideas from that period.

Really silly idea that the 1950s were void of Hubbard's "big cosmic lies" with space opera, genetic entities (BT's), implants et al.

The book History of Man was first published in 1952 under the name "What To Audit".

Even the first line of the book is delusional:

"This is a coldblooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years."

Does anyone on ESMB actually believe this stuff?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
And furthermore, ladies and gentlemen of the jury...

XENU and blowing BT's is the single MAJOR ACTION of Scientology.

Everything up to that point is merely a *set up action* so that BT's can be blown.

Just look at the metrics of the bridge and how many hours it takes to get to Clear (a few weeks or months according to promo from the Mecca of technical perfection) compared to the decade or more of daily auditing hours that it takes to get thru OT III, IV, V, VI and VII.

The math doesn't lie.

Hubbard does.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Welcome Farcyde.

I would love to know what it was that finally tipped you into the internet and started the awakening process - what sites helped, any suggetions about how Anonymous et al can better attract the attention of those still trapped? When you're ready, of course.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
As Kookaburra said, it is true the OT-3 sup doesn't let anyone leave after reading the OT-3 materials - even waits until after break for them to read it, makes sure they've gone to the bathroom, etc. It is true the sup knocks himself out to get the person to audit OT-3 the same day as reading the materials. Doesn't always happen, and even when it does, there are heaps of blows immediately afterward and it has been that way throughout AOLA's time. We had to call them back in. So I know.

I don't get this at all. I sup'd OT3 at AOSHUK 1983-5. The course was divided into two parts, the juicy stuff being on the second part. Part 1 often took 5 days or a week full-time. Part 2 usually took three or four days full-time. We always spent several hours on a final "doll" drill making sure the guy was as practised as one can be in auditing all the different procedures and remedies without actually doing it for real (you can see that drill in full detail on my OT3 checksheet here). The CofS checksheet didn't have such a drill on it, but at AOSHUK we did it anyway as it was ridiculous to send someone off to audit OT3 without doing it. :)

After he had routed through on the theory, then he got to:
1. See the platens for the first time;
2. Get checked out on them by the sup;
3. Solo audit.

*This* point we always tried to do in one go, i.e., we would never have the guy read the platens for the first time if he wasn't going to go into session at once.

I really don't see how someone could be gotten through the whole of OT3 theory (I'm talking about doing the entire CofS Part 2 checksheet, with M4s, star-rates, drills etc.), and the platens, and gotten into session in one day. it could explain all the blows! I can't think of one person at SH while I was on the line who blew after seeing the theory and before auditing. We took a great deal of care in getting the guy to understand what it was all about, and how to audit it properly, and he wouldn't graduate the theory until he felt reasonably competent and confident. If it meant he didn't graduate the theory until after Thursday 2pm, that was the way it was. Note that it often took several days on the theory before it really sunk in what the level was about, and people who were blasé about Part 2 on the first day would have their mouths hanging open days later when doing a clay demo or something.

-----

Now, of course, realizing how absurd the theory of OT3 is (even if there are some real phenomena that get obliquely addressed by the procedure), it's all quite laughable. But back then in the 80s it was quite a trip.

Paul
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
I don't get this at all. I sup'd OT3 at AOSHUK 1983-5. The course was divided into two parts, the juicy stuff being on the second part. Part 1 often took 5 days or a week full-time. Part 2 usually took three or four days full-time. We always spent several hours on a final "doll" drill making sure the guy was as practised as one can be in auditing all the different procedures and remedies without actually doing it for real (you can see that drill in full detail on my OT3 checksheet here). The CofS checksheet didn't have such a drill on it, but at AOSHUK we did it anyway as it was ridiculous to send someone off to audit OT3 without doing it. :)

After he had routed through on the theory, then he got to:
1. See the platens for the first time;
2. Get checked out on them by the sup;
3. Solo audit.

*This* point we always tried to do in one go, i.e., we would never have the guy read the platens for the first time if he wasn't going to go into session at once.

I really don't see how someone could be gotten through the whole of OT3 theory (I'm talking about doing the entire CofS Part 2 checksheet, with M4s, star-rates, drills etc.), and the platens, and gotten into session in one day. it could explain all the blows! I can't think of one person at SH while I was on the line who blew after seeing the theory and before auditing. We took a great deal of care in getting the guy to understand what it was all about, and how to audit it properly, and he wouldn't graduate the theory until he felt reasonably competent and confident. If it meant he didn't graduate the theory until after Thursday 2pm, that was the way it was. Note that it often took several days on the theory before it really sunk in what the level was about, and people who were blasé about Part 2 on the first day would have their mouths hanging open days later when doing a clay demo or something.

-----

Now, of course, realizing how absurd the theory of OT3 is (even if there are some real phenomena that get obliquely addressed by the procedure), it's all quite laughable. But back then in the 80s it was quite a trip.

Paul

That's really interesting, Paul.

I remember the Part 1 bit, which didn't include the Xenu story, and lots of drills and such on it. That was consistent with AOLA.

Part 2 was changed a lot. There were at least 4 different checksheets for it with different revisions in the 80s. All the Marcab stuff was taken out when I did it in ''85-86. There was ONLY the LRH confidential written stuff on it, the Xenu story. And that is very, very short. Then of course the platens and that, as you said. I was in session within - what - an hour or two? of reading it. I couldn't go slower, though the sup wanted me to. There was just not much to read or do on the checksheet I had.

CMO, RTC, etc. were always all over the Solo area personally. A lot of people were fast flow (me included) - M1 co-audits were very popular at ASHO back then. (I really liked M1 W/Cing). So that might have had everything to do with the big push for people to audit same day, and it had everything to do with the checksheets being changed around. Poor Harold Sims! And then, of course, the stat push by EVERYone. There were OT3 starts, and there were OT3 Solo Auditing starts as stats.
But yeh, it may have had to do with the blows. Maybe people were started immediately as a solution to prevent the blows, when the real problem was there was just not that much material on the checksheets to even explain how the heck Elron arrived with the weird Xenu story anyway.

The other thing is, unlike some other AOs and Flag, PAC didn't have any special hotels or berthing for the public. So there was a lot less control there too, and a lot of cross-regging and other influences.

All things to consider.

ADDED: Paul, for the life of me I can't remember drilling on a doll on Part 2. If I did, it was awfully short. Certainly not hours. I believe at the time I did OT-3, there was a viewpoint that it was something one had to figure out for themselves from the materials, that anything else was eval and could be wrong. Some people finished all of OT3, including the theory, in 5-7 days. Average was more like 3 wks, though some took months. But the theory - I did the whole theory in a few days. I was a fast student anyway, but we're talking part-time. There just wasn't much to do for anyone fast flow, Part 1 had a lot more. Part 2 was so sketchy. Very disappointing.
 
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