Help getting Sea Orgres OUT! Any advice?

Don't people in prison get to have gift cards?
prisoners do, self jailed zealots don't. Trust me. It will get them in trouble and get you a disconnect letter. But realize, the stated intent was secret escape money!

A gift card given so they can have some spending money, from (undeclared) parents etc. is fine if it is not excessive. But from friends???? Dicey.

BTW, there is official Scn green on white policy against taking gifts.

Mimsey
 

Anonycat

Crusader
prisoners do, self jailed zealots don't. Trust me. It will get them in trouble and get you a disconnect letter. But realize, the stated intent was secret escape money!

A gift card given so they can have some spending money, from (undeclared) parents etc. is fine if it is not excessive. But from friends???? Dicey.

BTW, there is official Scn green on white policy against taking gifts.

Mimsey

Even Holiday gifts from family? Geez, I'd leave the SO or anywhere for that. Thanks for clarifying for me. I guess that's why they say: it's worse than you think.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Sorry let me jump in here.

If they are only taking a day off, then nothing will be searched and no sec check will take place. Although assuming that OSA is watching, you can't be 100% sure that they haven't already figured out who you are simply by using this post. It wouldn't be hard to track down who is taking a day off since...well since no one ever does.

If they are taking more than a day off they will be sec checked. The only real solution is to convince them not to go back. If they do go back they will be sec checked thoroughly and if OSA has found this post by then, they will probably disconnect from you on the quickness.

Nothing got searched when I was in the SO. They did not take away money or gift cards or anything.

What does happen is stuff gets stolen. They should know better already though. You are welcome to give them cash or a gift card and let them decide what to use it on.

You can also just simply let them know, if things don't work out in the Sea Org that they have someone who still cares on the outside. I wouldn't go much further than that because once the negative speak talks you are committed for the duration until either they run away in fear or they change their minds.

But they don't confiscate stuff or even search you. You literally arrive on base at the scheduled time and report for muster in the morning.

One of the biggest control factors of Scientology is assumed compliance. They don't have to force you to submit to searches because you will just spill your guts as soon as someone looks at you funny or you pick up the cans.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Also if you don't want to be found out, I would recommend hiding negative stuff because they could be on a mission to uncover you. You never know with Sea Org members, sadly. They are like storm troopers (the Nazi kind not the Star Wars kind).
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
prisoners do, self jailed zealots don't. Trust me. It will get them in trouble and get you a disconnect letter. But realize, the stated intent was secret escape money!

Good point. And thanks for the input Derek.

I was thinking along the lines of what people in North Korea can use and shit I've gotten people to smuggle into there. The self-jailed distinction is one I don't completely appreciate.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you all for the great advice! I have planned a lot of fun stuff when they come! Picnics at the beach, great home cooked meals, lots of rest, movies and shopping! Massages, chiro care, dentist - the whole works!!

I am freaking out about them getting in trouble when they get back? Tell me more about what happens when they return - "debriefed"??? WTF is that all about?? Their luggage will get searched? They will be interrogated about receiving money or gift cards?

This is the most insane cult/organization in the universe. Bar none!!
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
If they're getting that much time off, they're coming to handle you. Hide all entheta, dump your computer browsing data. If you have questions during their visit, ask Derek or some other former SO for his phone number via PM and be ready to call for advice from your car while driving around "on an errand" without your relative. Do not, under any circumstances get on ESMB and discuss the visit while it is in progress.
 
see post 24 above. The debrief happens if they think something is rotten in Denmark. I wasn't trying to put the fear of God in you - just let you know the extent it can go to. And it can be simple questioning from the MAA or it can be a sec check. Or it can be something in between like writing up overts committed while in wog land.

The SO is really paranoid, and afraid of outside influences, so I guess what I am saying is don't wave a red flag in their faces.

Mimsey
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Good point. And thanks for the input Derek.

I was thinking along the lines of what people in North Korea can use and shit I've gotten people to smuggle into there. The self-jailed distinction is one I don't completely appreciate.

I think self-jailed is a bad metaphor. It's more like Scientology builds a prison in your mind and traps you in it. Saying you are self-jailed implies that you are there of your own free will and minimizes the fact that Scientology usurps your free will and replaces it with the will of Hubbard/DM.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
If they're getting that much time off, they're coming to handle you. Hide all entheta, dump your computer browsing data. If you have questions during their visit, ask Derek or some other former SO for his phone number via PM and be ready to call for advice from your car while driving around "on an errand" without your relative. Do not, under any circumstances get on ESMB and discuss the visit while it is in progress.

Absolutely Idle Morgue. I am here to help and your number and identity will be safe with me.
 

still here

Patron with Honors
Hi IM

Your plans for pampering sound wonderful!

It reminded me of a visit to my sister whilst I was still in. My marriage at that time was breaking up and I had not had any money for months...or rest!

I arrived just for a weekend, and I suppose, although young I was physically and emotionally exhausted and stressed out.

It was a warm sunny day and when I arrived my sister sat me in the garden on her soft, wonderful, lounger and brought me a campari and soda, full of strawberries and ice...then she cooked wonderful food for dinner and just left me to relax and doze in the sun.........

No questions, (although she knew I was in a mess..) she just said, "You look worried and unhappy, I do not expect you tell me anything you don't want to, but if you want to, I am here". I was not able at that time to confide in her, not for years in fact and we laugh about it now. I told her recently that if there was anyone I really wanted to confide in it was her, I suppose I was so afraid of shocking her or being a disappointment..I had made a total mess of everything.

Anyway another moment I never forgot, simple but with lots of impact, just to have someone go to the trouble and give me something indulgent!

You are already planning all the right things, it will be enough.

Still
 

Sindy

Crusader
Finally ... the talk. Yeah, you could run the usual stuff about the Cof$ at them that is all over the web, but, that is NOT what I would do. I would ask questions, listen to their answers, and steer the topic towards RETIREMENT.

Pete

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Given the time, I think this is actually pretty good advice -- especially the retirement topic. Scientology has no answer for that for staff OR public -- everyone knows it and just sweeps it under the rug while they race toward that utopian world where the planning they are failing to do won't be required.

If they're young and idealistic, that might not fly but otherwise, it could be quite powerful.
 

exsomessenger

Patron Meritorious
wow, this was very hard for me to take in for two reasons. I was in the Sea Org and got one LOA granted in the 7 years I was in. this was due to my greatgrandmother passing. I was fresh out of the CMO EPF and approved as a messenger. All I wanted to do was get back to the group. It was hard to see anything and all the stuff I know when I left seemed so far away.

The other thing this made me think is what if this was my father comming to see me after 23years of no contact. what would I do and how would I act. after beating him into preasent time... er wait that was the old me. this is not an easy solution.

I think Ideal the best way to help them, if they get their CSW approved, the fact that this is a thread on here might hurt the chances of that but I hope not. I would show them how well you are doing by being the person they strive to be. SHow them that the WOG WORLD is not a scary place but one filled with good caring people like yourself. I would say not to go overboard on the pampering. It could come across as fishy. Just have the things they like handy and make life seem easy and fun and happy. Go to the park/beach/zoo together. have easy conversations about silly things. I really hope you get to see them.

Just plant some nice seeds that might get them remembering the great times you had when they are in lowers the next time for following policy and doing their job.

Best of luck IM
:biggrin:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I have some family that has been in the Sea Org only a few years. They are telling me they are getting a vacation very soon and should be coming home to visit.

Any advice on what to say? They know I am not happy with the Organization but think it is my CASE! :whistling:

I would appreciate any advice and also - is it true they will really get to leave for a week or so? I have been hearing that for over a year and they have never come through!


Chuck Beatty has that toll free # for Sea Orgers to call.

But as far as talking to your family, that could be interesting. Do they know you're out? If so, they may broach the topic. I think it would work out better if they broached the topic.

Once they do, if they do, you could honestly but politely tell them why you left.

It would be great if you could get them to open up and really candidly tell you about stuff they've seen. Bad stuff. There has to have been some.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Chuck Beatty has that toll free # for Sea Orgers to call.

But as far as talking to your family, that could be interesting. Do they know you're out? If so, they may broach the topic. I think it would work out better if they broached the topic.

Once they do, if they do, you could honestly but politely tell them why you left.

It would be great if you could get them to open up and really candidly tell you about stuff they've seen. Bad stuff. There has to have been some.

I find that asking open ended questions that are meant to elicit neither positive nor negative responses are very effective. Once I see where the responses are going, I can sorta see whether the person will be receptive to negativity. Reciprocating negativity is good, because it lets them know that you are willing to have a non-hostile discussion about doubts. But introducing negativity is something I tend to avoid, because it might be met with a Tone 40 shout down.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry let me jump in here.

If they are only taking a day off, then nothing will be searched and no sec check will take place. Although assuming that OSA is watching, you can't be 100% sure that they haven't already figured out who you are simply by using this post. It wouldn't be hard to track down who is taking a day off since...well since no one ever does.

If they are taking more than a day off they will be sec checked. The only real solution is to convince them not to go back. If they do go back they will be sec checked thoroughly and if OSA has found this post by then, they will probably disconnect from you on the quickness.

Nothing got searched when I was in the SO. They did not take away money or gift cards or anything.

What does happen is stuff gets stolen. They should know better already though. You are welcome to give them cash or a gift card and let them decide what to use it on.

You can also just simply let them know, if things don't work out in the Sea Org that they have someone who still cares on the outside. I wouldn't go much further than that because once the negative speak talks you are committed for the duration until either they run away in fear or they change their minds.

But they don't confiscate stuff or even search you. You literally arrive on base at the scheduled time and report for muster in the morning.

One of the biggest control factors of Scientology is assumed compliance. They don't have to force you to submit to searches because you will just spill your guts as soon as someone looks at you funny or you pick up the cans.

thanks for this information. She will be coming from FLAG SCAM BASE - and will be in town for at least one week, maybe two.

I received a call from her a while back - when she was assigned for CALL IN ~ to sell me SHIT...and the CULT "valance" is in FULL FORCE and EFFECT :omg:!

I lost my keys, dropped shit, forgot stuff - surely a sign of "danger"! The loaded lingo made me want to PUKE:puke2:It literally made me lose my appetite! I am not sure I can even stomach one day with that demon type personality - looking at my stuff, my nice car, my expensive clothes - my wonderful beautiful mest that she is sacrificing FOR WHAT??? SLAVE LABOR for nothing!

I believe her visit is some type of handling and that makes me sick.

I HATE scientology - absolutely despise it!

I am having a hard time even having any love for her - it is like loving a criminal relative that works for the Mafia - and does not know it but "waxes" certainty~!
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I believe her visit is some type of handling and that makes me sick.

I HATE scientology - absolutely despise it!

I am having a hard time even having any love for her - it is like loving a criminal relative that works for the Mafia - and does not know it but "waxes" certainty~!

Yeah, well, I have a longtime friend who got into the cult after we'd been friends for many years. I really love that person, and believe that he (at least the non-Scientology version) loves me. How he loves me is something to sort out for another day.

When he first got sucked into the cult, I don't know if he was trying to get me in because he wanted to be more involved with me and didn't want a non-Scn'ist, if he wanted to get me in because he loved me and sincerely wanted to help me, or if he was trying to get me in because he wanted a FSM commission or to speed his own progress up the Bridge.

Lucky for me, I am an experienced manipulator and saboteur - I sent him down to the Org to fetch me some clinical trials to prove that Clears exist and that Dianetics really works. Many years after this very heated discussion, my phone calls are answered on the first ring. The cult's phone calls - not so much.

I really have no idea what his intentions were, but to realize I may have been being thrown under the bus or set up for someone else's Bridge makes me sick. I sincerely hope that was never the case, but the possibility that may have been happening disgusts me. I still really love this person, so maybe I should just let it go. Realize that I still have a relationship more or less intact with him, the cult doesn't, and call that a win for myself.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I remember an homily a priest at my church gave (Catholic Church. This is back when I was in high school).

He talked about moral compromise. At the time, I misunderstood as I thought he was talking about "hey, I'll meet you half way and we'll split the gasoline costs" type compromise. But he wasn't. He was talking about morally compromising oneself and justifying and doing the wrong thing and lack of integrity.

NoName's under the bus comment got me thinking of this. (thanks, hon. Love your posts). I think that's the problem with CofS members. Moral compromise. It seems to be more of a situation with cults than with regular churches, too, IMO. Some exceptions, of course, but it's generally a cult that is going to expect you to ditch your integrity. But thing is, they tell the person that if you're doing it for the church, for your salvation, it's right. This is how they get perfectly decent people to believe they are not compromising themselves when they, in fact, truly are.

The standards one should adopt to acertain whether they are being morally compromised therefore cannot originate in Scn.
 
I remember an homily a priest at my church gave (Catholic Church. This is back when I was in high school).

He talked about moral compromise. At the time, I misunderstood as I thought he was talking about "hey, I'll meet you half way and we'll split the gasoline costs" type compromise. But he wasn't. He was talking about morally compromising oneself and justifying and doing the wrong thing and lack of integrity.

NoName's under the bus comment got me thinking of this. (thanks, hon. Love your posts). I think that's the problem with CofS members. Moral compromise. It seems to be more of a situation with cults than with regular churches, too, IMO. Some exceptions, of course, but it's generally a cult that is going to expect you to ditch your integrity. But thing is, they tell the person that if you're doing it for the church, for your salvation, it's right. This is how they get perfectly decent people to believe they are not compromising themselves when they, in fact, truly are.

The standards one should adopt to acertain whether they are being morally compromised therefore cannot originate in Scn.


Very true. As a observation, albeit one I've often made before. Back in the '80s, when scientologists were challenging management and leaving in droves, many attributed their own motivations for doing so as driven by their individual success with Julie & David Mayo's Happiness Rundown Program. That program, the original HRD, was designed to address an individual's considerations concerning experiences of "moral compromise" and residual feelings of guilt or inadequacy which may have arisen from such.

I personally had a great deal of benefit from the program and am one who directly attributes it as making a substantial contribution to my decision to leave the church at the time.

Compromising one's own sense of personal integrity can produce a definite degradation of moral responsibility, even though the effect is often a subtle one.

Or, in the words of the noted christian author C.S. Lewis ...

The safest road to hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.
C. S. Lewis


Mark A. Baker
 
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