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Here is where I am - confused.

juicycef

Patron
Since thetans can assume beingnesses at will, I have decided to come here and post under a different screen name than I normally use in forums. I have no idea what my screen name means, it just is what it is.

The quick version of my story is this:

Many years back (in the 80's), my father got into Scientology while I was a child. It was his decision to explore it. He is the type of guy who must walk the road less traveled. If everyone is going down road 1, he'll take road 2. This permeates about every facet of his life. Additionally, he must be the greatest guy in the room. This also permeates his entire life. If you are in a position to "one up" him on a subject, he will (likely without even thinking - some demon circuit or something) try to say something to prove to you he did it better than you or will. If he knows he cannot trump you, he will avoid the subject on which he feels inferior.

I believe Scientology, for him, is that road less traveled. It makes him feel like he's got something the other homo saps don't have. A little secret that he can behold and use to hold his nose just a touch higher than everyone else's in the room.

Over the years, I've seen him grasp onto various works with relentless vigor, invalidating conflicting views in the interim, only to shortly after dissent from the work and grab something else. Kevin Trudeau's Natural Cures was one such thing. The Atkins diet was another. I've seen him jump ship from "truth" to "truth" too many times to count, each time with the resolve of one whose finally discovered the "truth".

But, he's grasped onto Scientology now for 25 years and is currently auditing OTVII.

I love my father for the man that he his. But I am also very observant and I see what I see.

Backing up a bit, naturally, as his child, I was introduced to Scientology. I have no major ruins that I am aware of. I didn't drag myself to the door after being run over by life - I was enrolled as a young child onto the "How to achieve effective communication course". It was a bright orange little book, mostly likely Div 6 stuff. I was likely 8 or so at the time.

Fast forward sometime, my mother is introduced into the church, grabs onto it too and eventually is trained into a class V auditor. She joins staff and audits for a few years. These few years were during my early teens. It was determined by her - I didn't really have a viewpoint either way - that her being on staff was REALLY screwing up her ability to effectively be a mom. During this period, I am told now, I was quite the asshole to most people I regarded. This was likely the normal teen hormone cycle that happens to puberty teens, but perhaps this lack of a mother did play a factor.

Long story short, she departed staff in violation of her contract and was loaded with freeloaders debt, despite the money she generated for the church using the training she was now responsible to pay for herself. She came back into being a regular mother and the rest is history as regards her involvement with Scientology. She hasn't been back since.

To this day, she states (in summary) that the training did FAR more for her than the auditing. Key to Life was a waste of time. The auditing that she did audit, did in fact produce some strange things. She has told me some of the stuff she's encountered (many years after the fact) with PCs, how they boiled off charge, came up the tone scale as per the tech, etc. She has some reality on her own past lives, being able to recount several facsimiles from them. She admits that they may be dub-in, but they are definitively there. She views the world, even today, largely as a result over her training - recognizing serfacs in people she is around, etc. Yet, she has remained a blown Scientologist for well over a decade now. She regards most of the tech as having worked or at least indifferently, yet has a made a decision to no longer be involved and I respect that.

Fast forward several years, my father is still gung ho about LRH and Scn. He remained a stuck clear for several years and is told that being a clear long term is a bad place to be. WHY THE HELL ARE WE CLEARING THE PLANET THEN?

Anyway, he finally decided to do the eligibilities, solo nots, and route onto OT1. During this time, the MAA and he decide that my mother is an anchor and is to be separated from. There was one minor adultery incident between he and another woman during this time, so the primary overt was his. He is now currently married to her. She is many many years his junior. This undoubtedly reinforces his desires to be the best one in the room. His wife is no challenge to him.

So, my parents divorced. My father moves out and engages upon the OT levels.

There isn't much to say beyond this point as regards their history except that from my viewpoint, he has been satisfied and a full on board Scientologist ever since. His young wife has managed to do TRs and Objectives only over the last 9 years of their relationship, while he has soared up the bridge.

Additionally, due to his wife's youth, she was ripe age for children. He, already having had 2 sons, didn't want to have more kids. He has successfully convinced her that in lieu of children, he will be able to give her her "eternity" instead. She was 26 at the time and is now 34 or 35. Prime time to have kids is OVER and to date, she has done NOTHING on her own bridge except TRs and Objectives.

OK - where do I fit in?

Scientology, while having produced a few new viewpoints within me, has never delivered anything to me even close to commensurate with the negativity I've experienced from them. My experience with the org, on the whole, has been being bombarded with promo down every comm line I have, despite having dealt with Addresso clerk after Addresso clerk about it. They tell me the problem is solved, yet it continues. I am not very high on the bridge at all - yet in the time I've been associated with it, I've seen enough that just doesn't add up to make me question the true motives of the place.

I did Student Hat some time ago. The biggest win was getting through the course. There is definitely some good stuff on the course, undoubtedly. However, I have concluded based on experience that if I applied all the tech to the letter, I'd never turn a single page of a book. Secondly, when on course, I will pass/fail "meter checks" completely independent of whether I have an MU. I've passed with with knowing MUs (that I was currently working through) and I've failed them, only to invent a "list" of words that I already know, despite looking for non existent MUs, just to satisfy the sup. I've F/Ned everything on an M4, only to fail a spot check on that same thing later on. I've flubbed M9s, only to be forced to find an MU which doesn't exist. I've determined the best way out of this pickle is to just pick an easy word so as not to get on a chain. So, in my direct observation, much of the study tech is bogus. Every time I fidget, I need to do demos right? C'mon!

I've done TRs and Objectives. The TRs were OK. The objectives did nothing for me. I was only 13 at the time, but looking back, I feel nothing of value from that course, though I attributed some successes in my life to it later on - rightly or wrongly, I do not know.

I did the PTS/SP course too. Despite my agreement with the basic premise, summarized as sticking to your own judgment, using your own counsel, not letting others hold you down, etc - much of what I read I disagreed with at the time and still disagree with. Primarily those HCOBs regarding one's opinion of Scientology directly. I never agreed with the illness = PTS idea, and frankly, the third party law, while I do see how it applies in some cases, CERTAINLY doesn't apply in all quarrels. Again, my biggest win on the course was just FINISHING IT.

I got married shortly after and embarked upon a 5 year absence from the org while I lived life. In recent times, my life allowed me the opportunity (sparing the boring details) to enroll onto the PRO-TRs course.

This brings me up to about 6 weeks ago. My first experience back in the org in some 5 years is to start a routing form at the receptionist's desk. If I recall, the first stop is to see the reg. So I saw the reg, the course was already paid for, etc. No big deal. However, it turns out that with the release of the basics, I must now read DMSMH as a prereq. I was ARC broken about this because I had told them about my coming for a couple months and was never told about this, despite my having begun that very extension course previously. The quickest way through, was to just agree to finish it there. So, the reg said I had to buy the "book" course for $50. Whatever, I paid the bucks and went to study.

At the end of the day, I went home and felt very bad about the whole thing. Bypassed charge perhaps. I WAS ALREADY ON THE EXTENSION COURSE AND IT WAS PAID FOR! Why did I just pay another $50 for nothing new?

So, I called the reg the next day and told him the deal and demanded the money be credited to my account, well aware that refunds are like pulling teeth around there. So, fine, it was supposedly done. I also said, that I am not going into the org to finish the course, but would just do it from home via the original extension course. This was met with some CI (counter intention), but all in all, a surmountable obstacle.

Three weeks went by and I worked on the course. However, as a side note just to put this into context, I was laid off from my job about a year prior to this and had just finished up a professional certification at school that I had worked on up to this point, full time. So, in the end, money was running tight. I had decided to do this course quickly in the interim right after finishing my cert and before starting a job, because a) the org is over an hour from my house, and b) I know once I get a job, doing it full time is out of the question.

So, this DMSMH course effectively extended my runway to completion by AT LEAST a week.

So, during this three week period, while working on this course, I am struggling internally with the idea of what is the most ethical decision. Do I do this course, despite the added length or do I just fuck it and go out and get a job to get some income coming in? I had basically decided to do the latter, but was struggling to come up with much anything. I did have one opportunity come up that was basically an on call type of job. In other words, I'd have to be available to accept the work on a fairly quick notice.

In the academy at the org, your schedule is HOLY. Having to CSW left and right for schedule changes and constantly deal with their CI on it effectively led me to the decision not to even worry about this course anymore. My wins in SCN to this point have been minor to nil, so the inherent self motivation is just not within me.

So, I take this job for a couple weeks, only to find that the work is just not steady. I spent most of my time without work. So, I reevaluated and decided to pull out of the job and do the course after all. Additionally, the main thing I had just completed my professional cert on is a highly seasonal industry and it was currently at the height of the busy season, so I figured no one would have the time to look at incoming resumes. So, this course became the best option to keep me busy and relatively "on purpose" long enough to bridge the gap from PT to when my industry would potentially begin to hire again.

So, I finished DMSMH and back in I went. A couple days before I went back in, I had written an e-mail to the reg explaining what had happened to me over the last several weeks since we'd last spoken, etc. I had mentioned a few other PTPs that were going on that I was working through.

Well, when I get back, short story shorter, they route me up to HGC to do a PC routing form, do OCA testing IQ testing, etc. I did it all - though was never shown the results. Shortly after, I was called into the D of P who explained to me that it was recommended that I do 2 intensives of "life repair" to handle my area before beginning the course.

Money being as tight as it was, I knew this wasn't even remotely an option. I said that to the D of P and was told that I could explain it all to the reg. So, I was routed back down to the reg. The hard selling wasn't that bad because I KNEW that I wasn't going to pay the money and he sensed that I wasn't going to budge an inch. I was showed the usual references about how the reason I am having problems is because I am not in session, etc. I was asked about my credit availability, etc. The answer remained a steadfast NO. Apparently, this life repair didn't affect my ability to go on course, so I went up on course and officially began the ProTRs. Full time.

I had a good go for about three weeks until I came across a passing reference to the term "between lives area". So, I looked it up and WHOA. Spinning circles of pictures, a moving chair, force fields and shit. WAY beyond my reality. But, OK. I went on and came across a passing mention of the Helatrobus civilization. Fine - I looked it up. We're talking alien civilizations here. This was my first exposure to this side of the thing - and these terms are not OTIII stuff. These terms are in the basic books (History of Man) and the regular tech dictionary.

This began my "WTF" is going on attitude. I discovered this board and have done a bunch of reading, completely against the will of the church and my better PTS/SP completion self. However, everything else in life, I research both sides of the thing. So, I went against the tech and it was been eye opening to me to see the other viewpoint. I haven't decided to agree either way just yet, but I do SEE the viewpoint.

But, I continued on course and came across a couple points in Dianetics 55. First of all, it states very conclusively that a single command "Be three feet back of your head" will instantly clear 50% of the people. A "one shot clear". This sounded great!!! But, why had I never heard of it? So, I raised my hand and asked the sup and was shown a reference where it states that the "one shot clear" is impossible. YOU JUST SAID IT WAS POSSIBLE IN THIS BOOK AND HAD BEEN CONCLUSIVE. Data evaluation teaches that when two datums clash, at least one is false. Which one is false? Either way leads to no good. Either a), the one shot clear is possible, but was later determined to not make enough money and so was abandoned or b) he said something in the book that was untested and apparently untrue and held it out as truth.

Then, a few pages later, I came across a description of the abilities of a Clear. A clear would be able to leave his body at home, go the library sans body, and read the periodicals on the table, recall the personality of the librarian, etc. I KNOW DAMN WELL that my OTVII father cannot read the book on my desk without using his eyes. This must be yet another lie. I do not see this as being true.

My basic lack of wins, my VERY smart mother pulling out, my OTVII dad who is a great guy, but basically just a regular dude. I see nothing worth envying within him and no greater abilities than other generally capable people, the other OTs that I've observed, the stat driving madness, the hard sell reging, the relentless mail promos, emails, phone calls, are enough to make most people question it. But I continued. Until I ran across this blatantly FALSE stuff in there recently REreleased again (to sell more) basics books. If these things are false, what else is false?

So, as it stands, I am currently still (yes, I am going in tomorrow) working on the PROTRs course full time. I am just about to finish the theory before going into the clay table processing and the ultimate TRs.

After reading some of what I've read, my ARC for the church has dropped very much. The viewpoint makes A LOT of sense. I am not being third partied and am not PTS, I am merely using my own awareness and perception to see what I see and I find myself quite confused right now.

The easiest thing to do is to just continue with this course until its done. It'll make my dad suspect little, it'll be off my plate (end of cycle) and I can gracefully bow out for a while, while I figure out more about this. Or I can just leave NOW, blow the course, and deal with my dad's crap about it, be flooded (comm lines) about it, etc.

So that is where I stand with SCN at the moment.
 
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Smilla

Ordinary Human
Welcome :) Too late here for me to reply. Look forward to hearing more from you, and feeding something back. Good night.
 

TEoS

Patron with Honors
My basic lack of wins, my VERY smart mother pulling out, my OTVII dad who is a great guy, but basically just a regular dude. I see nothing worth envying within him and no greater abilities than other generally capable people, the other OTs that I've observed, the stat driving madness, the hard sell reging, the relentless mail promos, emails, phone calls, are enough to make most people question it. But I continued. Until I ran across this blatantly FALSE stuff in there recently REreleased again (to sell more) basics books. If these things are false, what else is false?

After writing the above, I really can't understand why you don't see the light, especially after your "very smart" mother remark! It's obvious that Scientology/The Tech is a complete waste of time. OT doesn't exist, and neither does Clear. You can see you're being ripped off and the OTs you know are just "regular people" who have nothing special that separates them from normal WOGs. The only real thing about Scientology is the money you're parting with in exchange for false promises.

RUN!
 

Wisened One

Crusader
:welcome: to ESMB, and thanks for sharing your story, juicycef! :)

Yeah....it's up to you if ya wanna pull out now or stay and finish, ya know?

Just to remind ya too tho, even after ya finish your current course, you'll be regged into the next step and if ya don't re-sign, your dad and all the reges will continue hounding ya for a while, as well.

Looking forward to reading more from ya! :yes: :drama:
 
The easiest thing to do is to just continue with this course until its done. It'll make my dad suspect little, it'll be off my plate (end of cycle) and I can gracefully bow out for a while, while I figure out more about this. Or I can just leave NOW, blow the course, and deal with my dad's crap about it, be flooded (comm lines) about it, etc.

So that is where I stand with SCN at the moment.

Sounds like you've got a smart mom! :thumbsup:

Also, sounds like you've been set-up to do services which you weren't actually all that interested in doing. I'm inclined to think there is more good in pursuing that in which you have an interest rather than that which others are interested in your pursuing.

Good luck dealing with your Dad, whether you leave now or later. If either you or he wind up having an interest - there are skilled practitioners, both with regards to training & auditing, available in the freezone. There is also considerably less fixation on rote procedures or unwarranted services.


Mark A. Baker
 

Div6

Crusader
That is quite a story. I admire your ability to maintain your own integrity and to look and think for yourself. It is very valuable. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.

Re: "One shot clear". As I recall, this was mentioned in Dianetics 55. Essentially, what it did was exteriorize a thetan from the body. Exteriorized, the person behaved differently, usually was more uptone. The thing is, that state is unstable....the person re-interiorizes in to the body, and can even start experiencing strange somatics and headaches. So the "one shot clear" approach looked good for a while, but created other problems. There was further research done on this that resulted in an auditing rundown to help handle a persons resistiveness to further auditing once they had "gone exterior".

As for the "whole track" stuff, well, that is part of the attraction to Scn for some people. Others, not so much.

Let us know how it goes with the rest of the TR's course.

Oh, and reading DMSMH was NEVER a pre-req for TR's when I was involved.
Gotta love that Golden Age of Additives....
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Senior policy is " Deliver what you promise."

The org has already violated that. The PRO TRs is an excellent course and enormous gains can be gotten from it. Certainly when I did it. Its probably still good. If they try and mess you around again you can quote this policy to them. And if they still mess you around can always just not go back.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Interesting stuff and welcome, yeh, yer mom had it right and was brave to get out and think of her family, too bad about your pops, he gave up a family and probaly a pretty good life for an illusion, I hope you can see beyond it yourself.
If these things are false, what else is false?
As mentioned above, all of it. Sad but true.
 

Ackerland

Patron with Honors
From reading your post, it seems you've got the scam pretty much figured out already. Why bother continuing?

However, since you've supplied ample information for OSA to use, I have no doubt they'll quickly figure out who you are. So in effect, you've decided where to go already :)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Jucycef, cool story.

One thing you said, in particular, was incredibly insightful:

"My father is still gung ho about LRH and Scn. He remains a stuck clear for several years and is told that being a clear long term is a bad place to be. WHY THE HELL ARE WE CLEARING THE PLANET THEN?"

What a concept, a Cleared Planet where everyone "is at serious risk" according to Ron. (risk of going bankrupt and insane,perhaps, by continuing Scientology)

Diagnosis? You, my friend, are terminally infected with the Truth. Unfortunately (for Scientology's bank accounts) there is no cure.

Congratulations! Keep going, the more you know the worse it gets.

By the time you get up to OT VII and highly trained, it will look like an absolute nightmare of lies.

If you like grotesque, terrorizing horror movies, you will really enjoy the Bridge.

Otherwise, there are some really good comedies, romances and adventure movies playing outside of Scientology's multiplex. :D
 

FoTi

Crusader
Welcome Juicycef! Thanks for sharing your story.

I see you're in kind of a tight spot there.

I wish you the best. I hope you stay in touch with us and let us know how things work out for you.
 

juicycef

Patron
From reading your post, it seems you've got the scam pretty much figured out already. Why bother continuing?

However, since you've supplied ample information for OSA to use, I have no doubt they'll quickly figure out who you are. So in effect, you've decided where to go already :)

I have no fear of this. I've read a bunch lately in FOT and DN55 about freedoms and entrapment, etc. I have a glimpse right now that is very real to me. I have not made a decision either way on my long term involvement with the church. I am going to plan on finishing the course that I am working on. I believe there are gains to be had on it, as mentioned earlier. I am not one of the guys that thinks all the tech is crap. It is not. I have seen many applicable parts to it. Though I have seen nothing "earth shattering", I've attained some clarified viewpoints of the mechanics of life and I am grateful for what value there is there.

Like the original subject line says, I am just confused. I've been involved with SCN my whole life, have seen my father rave about it, etc. I've done enough to see "some" solid workability. But I do not see (from my viewpoint) that what is being promised is being delivered.

Furthermore, a church should be a place of warmth, a place to escape the world, be among friends, work out your problems, and walk out feeling better and more willing to tackle life. My experience with SCN has been that most times I am just happy to be off course at the end of the day and free to go about the rest of my day, worried that on break some kid is going to hound me about joining staff or something, or if I'm 1.7 seconds late for role call because of traffic I'll receive an ethics chit or something, etc. The pressure and hardsell tactics are just not becoming of the title "church".

My wife grew up in a Methodist church. I am not a Christian at all. However, on a 3rd dynamic level, I'd say that her church is superior to mine in terms of warmth, ARC, etc. They accept you for who you are, if you skip a service it is not a big deal, you put a buck or two in the tray during the offering, more if you want to and can, the ministers make the rounds to the hospitals nearby to be with the elderly members of the church who are on the way out, etc. I see NONE of that in SCN. I understand the race against the atomic bomb and all that is a matter of urgency, but why strip the humanity out of it?

No, my opinion is my opinion. As a FREE being, I am entitled to it. It is my idea as a result of my observation entirely. I am most certainly NOT PTS, etc. If the OSA figures out who I am and tracks me down in an effort to do something, then that will merely put the cherry on top of my already doubting mind.

Much of the tech, I believe is good. Some of it appears (from my novice viewpoint, right or wrong) to be either crap or extremely exaggerated. I do not know what LRH's true intentions were. I am not going to call him a con just yet. I am willing to state my current view, but that view doesn't include that hypothesis just yet. The truth about LRH and SCN could lie anywhere on a continuum from a complete and total fraud on one end to a gleaming profit on the other who discovered a technology so advanced that I, buried with my implants that are forcing me to attempt to avoid it, am merely following a program designed to derail me from the TRUTH. I believe the actual truth lies somewhere in the middle. Perhaps LRH was just a flawed person like the rest of us who stumbled across some great stuff and came across some not so great stuff. Perhaps he wanted the best for mankind AND wanted to make some money from it too. Who knows?

I am going to keep all this to myself, as I do now (except for this post), and plan on finishing the course I am on. If I walk away blown out with wins and feel that I can communicate on a level never before attainable, I will scratch my head and try to see where to go from there. If I walk out feeling nothing new and no value, then it'll just solidify my already shaky footing on the merits of this subject.

This is how the world works, whether they like it or not. People try things, whether a new car, a new watch, what have you. Then based on their experience, they either recommend that thing to friends, buy more of them, etc. I haven't really had any great experiences in the church yet. They have not honestly earned my trust yet. They are no different in my mind than a salesman (as they are) merely telling me the car was only driven on Sundays to the grocery store and back by the old lady. I haven't enough prove to judge the claims quite yet. The jury is still out.

If the OSA has a problem with a free being's opinion to a point where it enters my lines formally, then the true nature of this beast will have been revealed. If the subject delivers what it is supposed to and this is proven to me through my own wins, not hearsay and propaganda, then I will stick around and be a good Scientologist. If they have to fish to find me and feel that some proactive effort to straighten me out is in order, the jury might just come up with a verdict at that point.
 
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Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Juicycef,

First - Welcome.

Second - I don't see how you're confused.

You keep writing the out-points you observe. Why would anyone as bright as you seem to be, be confused?

Do you have some compulsion to not drop out of a given course? You wrote in your post that you are happy when course is over. If you are truly getting something out of the course, you'd be happy while on course. Sure, you're going to run into words that will slow you down during you're reading, but overall, shouldn't you be happy while on course?

Are you afraid to disappoint your father because he paid for the course? If you're not truly their on your own determinism you're not going to get much out of the course.

And personally, I never did the PRO TRs course even tho I was in Scn for 19 years. Nearly every person I knew that did the course was either very robotic in their communication or just piss poor at TRs period. And DM only knows how much he's changed it to make it even a less quality product.
 

Pliny Younger

Patron with Honors
Welcome Juicycef,

Furthermore, a church should be a place of warmth, a place to escape the world, be among friends, work out your problems, and walk out feeling better and more willing to tackle life.


Once upon a time, it was this way. Not in most churches, not in all mission but in some it was this way.

My experience with SCN has been that most times I am just happy to be off course at the end of the day and free to go about the rest of my day, worried that on break some kid is going to hound me about joining staff or something, or if I'm 1.7 seconds late for role call because of traffic I'll receive an ethics chit or something, etc. The pressure and hardsell tactics are just not becoming of the title "church".

Yeah, back in the 1983, When my first child was conceived, I asked myself a question. Did I want to subject him to the church? There was some good stuff in it and some not so good stuff. That was a moment of truth for me. You know the direction I went in because I'm answering you here.

Peace
 

Friend

Patron
Very interesting story.
I could see myself being you.
Ch of Scientology is molding you slowly and playing with your guilt and making you wrong with false TR 4 with originals. When I was involved I wanted to read the books at home myself instead of being on a too steep a gradient course "Studen Hat", which caused my severe chest pain. If I had listened to them I would probably be....
I was invalidated and evaluated. After I finished Student Hat with MU:s, not connected to my language I wanted to read basic books and find my gradient and readings to my likings. I had to buy the whole library (ganged up); what is the point to have the books (tapes) if you can't read them at home? Why should I have to give my hard earned money so easy? I had to start TR Course unwillingly; my heart, my inner core said no. I was on my way out of the org.
While bugged on the words; I was connecting the words to my language and I was getting the words and I felt better and better. My trapped air came out my lungs and I sneezed cronically and I was on my cure of my chest pain. I felt better. I started to get exteriorized, I understood better and my english improved and students and staff said they could understand me and I started to look around. I listened to my core/heart and I did what was right no matter what the staff said. Nobody could understand me and I had to quietly pursue what I thought was right and I was right. After clearing up all those words with time my chest pain disappeared.
You need to step back; listen to yourself; nobody knows you better than you.
You are the driver; don't let anybody take over your steering wheel. It is your journey; follow your instinct. You will find yourself gradually.
Another thing you can do is to go to Bahai firesights and choose the subjects for the night and speak to the people. They have them in private homes and they serve fruits, cookies and teas etc. Nobody will pressure you; it is so unlike Scientology. Just that feeling is great and you will feel very respected.
They use examples to explain. It solved many of my questions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Shoghi Effendi in his visits to Washington D.C. met with Ron Hubbard in a lecture hall on 16 th Street. More reserch is needed for that. Bahai is everywhere and the people are smart.
I hope it will help you and I hope you like what I wrote.
Friend


Since thetans can assume beingnesses at will, I have decided to come here and post under a different screen name than I normally use in forums. I have no idea what my screen name means, it just is what it is.

The quick version of my story is this:

Many years back (in the 80's), my father got into Scientology while I was a child. It was his decision to explore it. He is the type of guy who must walk the road less traveled. If everyone is going down road 1, he'll take road 2. This permeates about every facet of his life. Additionally, he must be the greatest guy in the room. This also permeates his entire life. If you are in a position to "one up" him on a subject, he will (likely without even thinking - some demon circuit or something) try to say something to prove to you he did it better than you or will. If he knows he cannot trump you, he will avoid the subject on which he feels inferior.

I believe Scientology, for him, is that road less traveled. It makes him feel like he's got something the other homo saps don't have. A little secret that he can behold and use to hold his nose just a touch higher than everyone else's in the room.

Over the years, I've seen him grasp onto various works with relentless vigor, invalidating conflicting views in the interim, only to shortly after dissent from the work and grab something else. Kevin Trudeau's Natural Cures was one such thing. The Atkins diet was another. I've seen him jump ship from "truth" to "truth" too many times to count, each time with the resolve of one whose finally discovered the "truth".

But, he's grapsed onto Scientology now for 25 years and is currently auditing OTVII.

I love my father for the man that he his. But I am also very observant and I see what I see.

Backing up a bit, naturally, as his child (2nd of 2), I was introduced to Scientology. I have no major ruins that I am aware of. I didn't drag myself to the door after being run over by life - I was enrolled as a young child onto the "How to achieve effective communication course". It was a bright orange little book, mostly likely Div 6 stuff. I was likely 8 or so at the time.

Fast forward sometime, my mother is introduced into the church, grabs onto it too and eventually is trained into a class V auditor. She joins staff and audits for a few years. These few years were during my early teens. It was determined by her - I didn't really have a viewpoint either way - that her being on staff was REALLY screwing up her ability to effectively be a mom. During this period, I am told now, I was quite the asshole to most people I regarded. This was likely the normal teen hormone cycle that happens to puberty teens, but perhaps this lack of a mother did play a factor.

Long story short, she departed staff in violation of her contract and was loaded with freeloaders debt, despite the money she generated for the church using the training she was no responsible to pay for. She came back into being a regular mother and the rest is history as regards her involvement with Scientology. She hasn't been back since.

To this day, she states (in summary) that the training did FAR more for her than the auditing. Key to Life was a waste of time. The auditing that she did audit, did in fact produce some strange things. She can told me some of the stuff she's encountered (many years after the fact) with PCs, how they boiled off charge, came up the tone scale as per the tech, etc. She has some reality on her own past lives, being able to recount several facsimiles from them. She admits that they may be dub-in, but they are definitively there. She views the world, even today, largely as a result over her training - recognizing serfacs in people she is around, etc. Yet, she has remained a blown Scientologist for well over a decade now. She regards most of the tech as having worked or at least indifferently, yet has a made a decision to no longer be involved and I respect that.

Fast forward several years, my father is still gung ho about LRH and Scn. He remains a stuck clear for several years and is told that being a clear long term is a bad place to be. WHY THE HELL ARE WE CLEARING THE PLANET THEN?

Anyway, he finally decided to do the eligibilities, solo nots, and route onto OT1. During this time, the MAA and he decide that my mother is an anchor and is to be separated from. There were one minor adultery incident between he and another woman during this time. He is now currently married to her. She is 22 years his junior.

So, my parents divorced. My father moves out and engages upon the OT levels.

There isn't much to say beyond this point as regards their history except that from my viewpoint, he has been satisfied and a full on board Scientologist ever since. His young wife has managed to do TRs and Objectives only over the last 9 years of their relationship, while he has soared up the bridge.

Additionally, due to his wife's youth, she was ripe age for children. He, already having had 2 sons, didn't want to have more kids. He has successfully convinced her that in lieu of children, he will be able to give her her "eternity" instead. She was 26 at the time and is now 34 or 35. Prime time to have kids is OVER and to date, she has done NOTHING on her own bridge except TRs and Objectives.

OK - where do I fit in?

Scientology, while having produced a few new viewpoints within me, has never delivered anything to me even close to commensurate with the negativity I've experienced from them. My experience with the org, on the whole, has been being bombarded with promo down every comm line I have, despite having dealt with Addresso clerk and Addresso clerk about it. They tell me the problem is solved, yet it continues. I am not very high on the bridge at all - yet in the time I've been associated with it, I've seen enough that just doesn't add up to make me question the motives of the place.

I did Student Hat some time ago. The biggest win was getting through the course. There is definitely some good stuff on the course, undoubtedly. However, I have concluded based on experience that if I applied all the tech to the letter, I'd never turn a single page of a book. Secondly, when on course, I will pass/fail "meter checks" completely independent of whether I have an MU. I've passed with with knowing MUs (that I was currently working through) and I've failed them, only to invent a "list" of words that I already know, despite looking for MUs, just to satisfy the sup. I've F/Ned everything on an M4, only to fail a spot check on that same thing later on. I've flubbed M9s, only to be forced to find an MU which doesn't exist. I've determined the best way out of this is to pick an easy word so as not to get on a chain. So, in my direct observation, much of the study tech is bogus.

I've done TRs and Objectives. The TRs were OK. The objectives did nothing for me. I was only 13 at the time, but looking back, I feel nothing of value from that course, though I attributed some successes in my life to it later on - rightly or wrongly, I do not know.

I did the PTS/SP course too. Despite my agreement with the basic premise, summarized as sticking to your own judgment, using your own counsel, not letting others hold you down, etc - much of what I read I disagreed with at the time and still disagree with. Primarily those HCOBs regarding one's opinion of Scientology directly. I never agreed with the illness = PTS idea, and frankly, the third party law, while I do see how it applies in some cases, CERTAINLY doesn't apply in all quarrels. Again, my biggest win on the course was just FINISHING IT.

I got married shortly after and embarked upon a 5 year absence from the org while I lived life. In recent times, my life allowed me the opportunity (sparing the boring details) to enroll onto the PRO-TRs course.

This brings me up to about 6 weeks ago. My first experience back in the org in some 5 years is to start a routing form at the receptionist's desk. If I recall, the first stop is to see the reg. So I saw the reg, the course was already paid for, etc. No big deal. However, it turns out that with the release of the basics, I must now read DMSMH as a prereq. I was ARC broken about this because I had told them about my coming for a couple months and was never told about this, despite my having begun that very extension course previously. The quickest way through, was to just agree to finish it there. So, the reg said I had to buy the "book" course for $50. Whatever, I paid the bucks and went to study.

At the end of the day, I went home and felt very bad about the whole thing. Bypassed charge perhaps. I WAS ALREADY ON THE EXTENSION COURSE AND IT WAS PAID FOR! Why did I just pay another $50 for nothing new?

So, I called the reg the next day and told him the deal and demanded the money be credit to my account, well aware that refunds are like pulling teeth around there. So, fine, it was supposedly done. I also said, that I am not going into the org to finish the course, but would just do it from home via the original extension course. This was met with some CI (counter intention), but all in all, a surmountable obstacle.

Three weeks went by and I worked on the course. However, as a side note just to put this into context, I was laid off from my job about a year prior to this and had just finished up a professional certification at school that I had worked on up to this point, full time. So, in the end, money was running tight. I had decided to do this course quickly in the interim right after finishing my cert and before starting a job, because a) the org is over an hour from my house, and b) I know once I get a job, doing it full time is out of the question.

So, this DMSMH course effectively extended my runway to completion by AT LEAST a week.

So, during this three week period, while working on this course, I am struggling internally with the idea of what is the most ethical decision. Do I do this course, despite the added length or do I just fuck it and go out and get a job to get some income coming in? I had basically decided to do the latter, but was struggling to come up with much anything. I did have one opportunity come up that was basically an on call type of job. In other words, I'd have to be available to accept the work on a fairly quick notice.

In the academy at the org, your schedule is HOLY. Having to CSW left and right for schedule changes and constantly deal with their CI on it effectively led me to the decision not to even worry about this course anymore. My wins in SCN to this point have been minor to nill, so the inherent motivation is just not within me.

So, I take this job for a couple weeks, only to find that the work is just not steady. I spent most of my time without work. So, I reevaluated and decided to pull out of the job and do the course after all. Additionally, the main thing I had just completed my professional cert on is a highly seasonal industry and it was currently at the height of the busy season, so I figured no one would have the time to look at income resumes. So, this course became the best option to keep my busy and relatively "on purpose" long enough to bridge the gap from PT to when my industry would potentially begin to hire again.

So, I finished DMSMH and back in my went. A couple days before I went back in, I had written an e-mail to reg explaining what had happened to me over the last several weeks since we'd last spoken, etc. I had mentioned a few other PTPs that were going on that I was working through.

Well, when I get back, short story shorter, they route me up to HGC to do a PC routing form, do OCA testing IQ testing, etc. I did it all - though was never shown the results. Shortly after, I was called into the D of P who explained to me that it was recommended that I do 2 intensives of "life repair" to handle my area before beginning the course.

Money being as tight as it was, I knew this wasn't even remotely an option. I said that to the D of P and was told that I could explain it all to the reg. So, I was routed back down to the reg. The hard selling wasn't that bad because I KNEW that I wasn't going to pay the money and he sensed that I wasn't going to budge an inch. I was showed the usual references about how the reason I am having problems is because I am not in session, etc. I was asked about my credit availability, etc. The answer remained a steadfast NO. Apparently, this life repair didn't affect my ability to go on course, so I went up on course and officially began the ProTRs. This was about 4 weeks ago. Full time.

I had a good go for about three weeks until I came across a passing reference to the term "between lives area". So, I looked it up and WHOA. Spinning circles of pictures, a moving chair, force fields and shit. WAY beyond my reality. But, OK. I went on and came across a passing mention of the Helatrobus civilization. Fine - I looked it up. We're talking alien civilizations here. This was my first exposure to this side of the thing - and these terms are not OTIII stuff. These terms are in the basic books (History of Man) and the regular tech dictionary.

This began my "WTF" is going on attitude. I discovered this board and have done a bunch of reading, completely against the will of the church and my better PTS/SP completion self. However, everything else in life, I research both sides of the thing. So, I went against the tech and it was been eye opening to me.

But, I continued on course and came across a couple points in Dianetics 55. First of all, it states very conclusively that a single command "Be three feet back of your head" will instantly clear 50% of the people. A "one shot clear". This sounded great!!! But, why had I never heard of it? So, I raised my hand and asked the sup and was shown a reference where it states that the "one shot clear" is impossible. YOU JUST SAID IT WAS POSSIBLE IN THIS BOOK AND HAD BEEN CONCLUSIVE. Data evaluation teaches that when two datums clash, at least one is false. Which one is false? Either way leads to no good. Either a), the one shot clear is possible, but was later determined to not make enough money and so was abandoned or b) he said something in the book that was untested and apparently untrue and held it out as truth.

Then, a few pages later, I came across a description of the abilities of a Clear. A clear would be able to leave his body at home, go the library sans body, and read the periodicals on the table, recall the personality of the librarian, etc. I KNOW DAMN WELL that my OTVII father cannot read the book on my desk without using his eyes. This must be yet another lie. I do not see this as being true.

My basic lack of wins, my VERY smart mother pulling out, my OTVII dad who is a great guy, but basically just a regular dude. I see nothing worth envying within him and no greater abilities than other generally capable people, the other OTs that I've observed, the stat driving madness, the hard sell reging, the relentless mail promos, emails, phone calls, are enough to make most people question it. But I continued. Until I ran across this blatantly FALSE stuff in there recently REreleased again (to sell more) basics books. If these things are false, what else is false?

So, as it stands, I am currently still (yes, I am going in tomorrow) working on the PROTRs course full time. I am just about to finish the theory before going into the clay table processing and the ultimate TRs.

After reading some of what I've read, my ARC for the church has dropped very much. The viewpoint makes A LOT of sense. I am not being third partied and am not PTS, I am merely using my own awareness and perception to see what I see and I find myself quite confused right now.

The easiest thing to do is to just continue with this course until its done. It'll make my dad suspect little, it'll be off my plate (end of cycle) and I can gracefully bow out for a while, while I figure out more about this. Or I can just leave NOW, blow the course, and deal with my dad's crap about it, be flooded (comm lines) about it, etc.

So that is where I stand with SCN at the moment.
 

Been Done Had

Patron with Honors
Welcome!

Congratulations on having the courage to look.

The EP of Grade 0 is the ability to talk to anyone about any subject. The church shuts down comm to only the approved subjects.

Keep looking. Go to course. Or don't. Love your dad and enjoy your time with him. And get a job!

:happydance:
 
While you are making up your mind, could you lounge around the reges office from time to time and record some interviews on an MP3 player etc. Ingratiate yourself to OSA and see if they ask you to do OPs, and record them too and get docs. May as well get something useful out of your time there.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I found the Pro TRs clay table pretty good. And the first time I did extensive TRs it was pretty good too. If you can do it without paying any more money for anything, or signing up for staff or something stupid, you might well find it very beneficial.

I would suggest not reading anything more online for now!

The reason for that is that as you read you will get more and more disenchanted with the CofS and Hubbard's lies. It is hard to hide such disaffection while doing sessions and TRs 12 hours a day, every day.

Paul
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
But, I continued on course and came across a couple points in Dianetics 55. First of all, it states very conclusively that a single command "Be three feet back of your head" will instantly clear 50% of the people. A "one shot clear". This sounded great!!! But, why had I never heard of it? So, I raised my hand and asked the sup and was shown a reference where it states that the "one shot clear" is impossible. YOU JUST SAID IT WAS POSSIBLE IN THIS BOOK AND HAD BEEN CONCLUSIVE. Data evaluation teaches that when two datums clash, at least one is false. Which one is false? Either way leads to no good. Either a), the one shot clear is possible, but was later determined to not make enough money and so was abandoned or b) he said something in the book that was untested and apparently untrue and held it out as truth.
Hi Juicy and a huge (hudge!) welcome to the board.

I'm very interested to read the reference that says a one shot clear is impossible. Do you happen to remember where it was from?

You are clearly an intelligent and thoughtful person. It sounds like you know that you're only part of the way down the track that you're on. I recognise that taking and absorbing information that has such enormous consequences isn't something that happens overnight for most people. Thanks for trusting us enough to step in to the community now, before you've reached clarity. You'll get there.

You indicated that if the course works for you then you will stay a good scientologist. I would encourage you to consider - in that case - being a good independent scientologist. The freezone seems not to be perpetrating the same kinds of abuses upon people as does the CoS.

Just a thought. Again, welcome.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I am very impressed by the logical way you have looked at the situation. You sound very far from confused. You sound more undecided or doubtful than confused. The most important thing is that you decide for yourself what you want to do or not do. It is your life. I would suggest that you carry on evaluating the options open to you, until it becomes perfectly clear in your own mind which road you want to go down. When you are sure what you want to do, go for it and don't let anyone deflect you. Good luck.
 
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