Hi Folks on ESMB

[parrotnutz]

Hi Folks

I just want to introduce myself. I've been lurking for a quite a while on ESMB, and there's a bunch of incredibly bright people here. I've also learned so much about people; not just peoples experiences within Scientology, but also peoples experiences as human beings.

I had some involvement with Sci when I was 17 - 19, back in the mid 1990s.I was a collage student at the time. I did some courses, bought lots of books and did some Dianetics auditing (no emeter). They tried to pressure me to go to Saint Hill in the UK, but I managed not to get in too deeply. The staff were just quite creepy. I would smile at one of the staff members and they'd look straight through me. I'd try to make jovial conversation about life in general, and they'd switch to a topic more Hubbard friendly. I knew there was something not quite right. I asked someone on staff 'How did Hubbard die?' A fairly reasonable question I should think. But his personality completely changed and he snapped at me that Hubbard didn't die! he just left his body, and his soul, or thetan, still lives on. What a strange reaction I thought, a reaction that bordered on the irrational. And this guy was a Clear. Another time I brought a friend of mine in to see what she thought. Straight away she could see it was a scam. Calmly and diplomatically, she told the Scientologist that you simply can't expect the average person to be able to afford the cost of your services. I could see the Scientologist, also a Clear, getting redder and redder in the face, clearly reacting with what seemed to be bordering on anger. But Clears, I thought, don't have a reactive mind, and so don't get irrational. The truth is that as soon as somebody challenges or disagrees with any aspect of Scientology, The Scientologist can get as irrational as he likes. My friend and I left without purchasing anything. I'm surprised I wasn't labelled PTS because of my friend asking questions and making observations that demand honest answers and acknowledgment

So the staff made me uneasy, and the cost of their services set bells ringing in my head. Being a college student at the time I didn't always have the kind of money they were looking for. And to be honest, I can safely say that if I had of had the money, I would have handed it over to them. Sure I was interested in the human mind and in helping people, but more than anything i just wanted to belong somewhere, anywhere away from home. Having grown up in a very abusive household, I had seen Scientology as an escape. A chance to feel part of something. Something I just did not feel at home. And I think that was my primary motivation. I did voluntary work through most of my teen years - a crisis helpline for abused kids or visiting the old folks in their homes. But Scientology seemed to be offering something that addressed my needs. It's interesting that I was drawn to Scientology considering that my father had already successfully brainwashed me through his abuse, particulary the emotional and mental abuse. I'm still fighting that to this day. I really internalised everything he said.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I sincerely hope I can contribute meaningfully to the board.
Best wishes to everyone
DP

Don`t mean to derail your thread, but the abuse I have suffered in the past is WHY I`m a $cientology critic today. I was lucky to not have gotten involved in a cult, although I married an abusive man. Really, not that different.
Young people are just SO vulnerable, and I hope that education will stop the cult from gettiing their nasty claws in them....

 

[Dark Phoenix]

The thing about church staff is that they work many many hours, are short on sleep and often go without decent nutrition. They are also under constant pressure to get their "stats" up.

That's not creepy- that's victimization and (being on the receiving end of) predation.

I understand what you're saying Fluffy, and apologies if I came across as stating that the staff I encountered were natural born creeps. It possible maybe one or two of them were. But as you point out, which I understand is the case with many staff, they do indeed work long hours, don't get enough sleep and not enough decent food. But that can have the effect of making them seem creepy. They are clearly not functioning to the best of their abilities. I know if I've had a rough night sleep and am rushing out the door with no time for breakfast to get to work, I don't function nearly half as well as I do normally. I may appear dazed, inattentive, seeming to 'be in my own world'.I may infact come across as creepy, particularly around people who don't know me. And whatever the cause, my personal experience of the staff at the Mission, was that they were creepy. I don't know what the nature or cause of this was, but the end result was creepy

I also agree with Alanzo; some people are just creepy. And I'm certainly not implying that all Sci are creeps, whether natural or the result of not enough sleep and not enough food

 

[Zinjifar]

The question isn't whether you're creepy. It's whether you're creepy enough.
Only the tigers survive

Zinj

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Don`t mean to derail your thread, but the abuse I have suffered in the past is WHY I`m a $cientology critic today. I was lucky to not have gotten involved in a cult, although I married an abusive man. Really, not that different.
Young people are just SO vulnerable, and I hope that education will stop the cult from gettiing their nasty claws in them....

No worries parrotnutz, thanks for your post. It's amazing how similar being trapped in a mind control cult that practices some very abusive policies has nearly identical dynamics to a dysfunctional family or relationship.

If an abusive man you're planning one day to marry, showed their abusive side on one of your first dates, you'd be outta there. Instead you get the love,devotion and subtle manipulation. That's the fundamental part of the trap. Then later, say when they're married, the mental and physical abuse begins. All through the courtship, as he charmed his bride to be, and as she fell deeply in love with him, he studied her. He got to know her mind and how to push her buttons. It could take years, but the womans only hope in this scenario to get out of this mans clutches and escape. He'd never let her go willingly, he's a control freak and a malignant narcissist.

Likewise, the money-scamming pyramid scheme and cultic monstrosity that is the CofS, begins setting it's trap not by telling their 'raw meat' that they plan to brainwash them, suck them dry financially, apply abusive policies such as disconnection and Fair Game when and if necessary, and of course the whole Xenu and the dead space aliens story. If this side of Scientology was revealed from the get go, I imagine disgust, bewilderment, laughter and condemnation would be the most likely reponses from the anyone they approached. So just like the abusive husband,Scientology first offers what appears to be 'the good stuff' - a friendly free stress test or personality test. Maybe both? Now let the lovebombing commence. The person is told, by a smiling, enthusiastic router, just how much potential that person has and that only Scientology can help them unlock that potential, At the lower levels of the bridge, the new recruit or pc can experience gains or 'wins'. A person can have a win via auditing, TRs, and courses. And they do feel like they're genuinely winning.
This corresponds to that early romance stage, when people get to experience, and so can honesty claim, that Scientology does indeed work. It does infact deliver results in these lower levels. However, the further one progresses up the bridge, the Scientologist on staff /SO begins to experience the less savory and more abusive aspects of Scientology. Lower Conditions. KRs. Sec Checks. Poor wages. Poor food. The fear of the dreaded RPF, and the RPF's RPF. The list goes on. Some staff might not really think about any of it, and just get on with it, accepting it for what it is. Infact the indoctrination probably has a large part to do with that. Some do realize this is not what they signed up for but fear of disconnection and being declared an SP keep them from trying to escape. Then there are those who do manage to escape. More luck to them

 

[Dark Phoenix]

The question isn't whether you're creepy. It's whether you're creepy enough.
Only the tigers survive

Zinj

Why Zinj, Critic extradinaire, this is an honor(assuming you're talking to me )

Interestingly, according to the great oracle that is Chinese Astrology I was born in the year of the Tiger.

And I gladly accept the honor of being a very creepy Tiger

 

[Species8472]

Creepsville

The question isn't whether you're creepy. It's whether you're creepy enough.
Only the tigers survive

Zinj

I remember at first the staff seemed creepy because they were not like normal people. They held your gaze for too long, talked excessivly positively about some odd things and critisized other normal things. Someone is creepy if they don't behave in the normal socially accepted way. Scino's don't, but it can be very subtle at first. The full creepiness isn't manifested until you attend one of the fundraiser 'lock-in' events - Like the Pommeranian tour (I'd never heard of him - this famous Hollywood dude was what - some TV bit part actor - who reads the closing credits anyway) After a while you get used to it, which probably means you have become a creep.

Also I remember a lot of the new public seemed abnormal in some way - life's flotsam and jetsam - losers washed up on the shoresof the Org. Like me - I was a total loser when I started as a Scino.

The Orgs natural prey are the misfits, depressed, naive, loners etc. For this reason the ideal org policy will never work. They want to attract more upstat public. a big shiny impressive Org will no longer attract the natural prey, and the upstat will keep staying away from the creep show.

 

[Doom]

Welcome Dark phoenix

Welcome, certainly sounds like you had "Creepy" time, but that is all too common with the staff looking "hunted" or just plan spooky, Back in the 70s in ANZO was the antithisis of your experence booming and happy staff,happy public. This all changed with DM and his hit squad, I guess this shows that the end is nigh for the CofS.

Again welcome and enjoy yourself here, we are a rag tag bunch of misfits but thats why I use the word "WE" , all the misfits fit here LOL

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I understand what you're saying Fluffy, and apologies if I came across as stating that the staff I encountered were natural born creeps. It possible maybe one or two of them were. But as you point out, which I understand is the case with many staff, they do indeed work long hours, don't get enough sleep and not enough decent food. But that can have the effect of making them seem creepy. They are clearly not functioning to the best of their abilities. I know if I've had a rough night sleep and am rushing out the door with no time for breakfast to get to work, I don't function nearly half as well as I do normally. I may appear dazed, inattentive, seeming to 'be in my own world'.I may infact come across as creepy, particularly around people who don't know me. And whatever the cause, my personal experience of the staff at the Mission, was that they were creepy. I don't know what the nature or cause of this was, but the end result was creepy

I also agree with Alanzo; some people are just creepy. And I'm certainly not implying that all Sci are creeps, whether natural or the result of not enough sleep and not enough food

I'm with you, I really am. I know that some church members can sometimes seem rather off-putting. I actually remember a couple of them trying out some stereotypical Scientological stare on me. People sometimes comment that church members often suck at communicating. Sadly, this is sometimes all too true.

I guess I was kind of playing devil's advocate. I did like your post, actually.

 

[Wisened One]

DP!

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I remember at first the staff seemed creepy because they were not like normal people. They held your gaze for too long, talked excessivly positively about some odd things and critisized other normal things. Someone is creepy if they don't behave in the normal socially accepted way. Scino's don't, but it can be very subtle at first. The full creepiness isn't manifested until you attend one of the fundraiser 'lock-in' events - Like the Pommeranian tour (I'd never heard of him - this famous Hollywood dude was what - some TV bit part actor - who reads the closing credits anyway) After a while you get used to it, which probably means you have become a creep.

Also I remember a lot of the new public seemed abnormal in some way - life's flotsam and jetsam - losers washed up on the shoresof the Org. Like me - I was a total loser when I started as a Scino.

The Orgs natural prey are the misfits, depressed, naive, loners etc. For this reason the ideal org policy will never work. They want to attract more upstat public. a big shiny impressive Org will no longer attract the natural prey, and the upstat will keep staying away from the creep show.

I agree with the creep factor in a few Scientologists I've been around. I did meet one or two that were not as stillted, or emotionless and not completely void of humor.And come to think of it, though some of them may be over-worked and over-tired, and this can produce an adverse affect on a persons behavior, I don't think this was a regular occurance at the Mission I was at. Truth be told, they rarely ever looked tired or overworked. To me, anyway.No obvious black circles or puffiness around the eyes, not a hint of lethargy or paleness of complexion, No slight dishevelment of clothes, hair neither grubby nor bedraggled and a healthy amount of more than just skin on the bones.That was my experience of it. There were some days, and indeed nights too, when people would get tired and a slovenly and unkempt look would appear here and there. But a consistenly sleep deprived and undernourished motley crew they certainly were not.

These days I think the creep factor is more a result of not being able to attract the upstat/uptone from the public, as opposed to some TRs overload

Here's a bit about my own experience with some of the more 'creepy' types.
I don't attribute this unerving disposition to mental and physical exhaustion.
Personally, I think they already had a creepy disposition to begin with, but that's just opinion.

The experience of making normal polite conversation with my then fellow reality rebels was certainly an experience. Granted not everyone behaved the way I'm about to explain; As I mentioned earlier, one or two could be quite pleasant, even animated. Although I also experienced those same pleasant people completely change tone in an instant, usually to hostility, and usually because the wrong thing was done or said. Anyway, when I did make the effort to be friendly with some of the others, I'd start up what I considered a trivial, light-hearted, conversation, totaly inoffensive. I'd ask a few questions, nothing too intrusive - so ya worked here long? you see such and such film or play?, do you like sardines? That sort of thing. maybe I'd throw in a semi -rhetorical 'Isn't the weather just so changable at the moment?', , etc, and I would pepper my ramblings with random opinions or I'd simply just state the obvious. This was my way of trying to engage people. The almost non-existant participation of my Impartiality challenged comrades, despite my oh so obvious charm, did however elicit plenty of the ole unblinking eye routine; stares fixed on me, and nobody smiling; no sense of any personal warmth, connection or affinity. They would also never answer any question straight away. There'd always be a noticeable few seconds of silence from any one of these humorless, truth resistant cohorts, sleep walking there way through each day. Shackled minds deprived, no enviscerated, of everything true and everything real, and any truth that was once uniquely their own. So they would just look at me. And depending on who I was talking to, I could detect a fairly palpable defensiveness suddenly take shape in their posture and facial expression. And when they finally answered what I'd asked, they would give vague answers; and exude an attitude that made it very clear it was none of my business to know anything about them outside what's necessary for 'Clearing the Planet'. I find this carryon really does underscore a baseline paranoia that I've witnessed in many Scientologists. Persecution complexes are almost worn like a badge of honor, a must have feature of the indoctrination pack. It might also be the case, more realistically actually, that a friendly bit of banter about life outside Scientology, with Scientologists on their own turf, was actually a bit of a Scientological faux pas within the sanctury of the Scientology Mission. Silly me, I finally concluded. Why would such enlightened creatures want to hear about the vulgar and idiotic goings-on in the depraved lives of the wog world? A wholely sordid topic indeed; a travesty of entheta that can only arouse disgust; a grotesque assault on the the more noble senses of the Homo Novis; simply best avoided by the BS detection impaired.

I left very shortly after that.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Welcome, certainly sounds like you had "Creepy" time, but that is all too common with the staff looking "hunted" or just plan spooky, Back in the 70s in ANZO was the antithisis of your experence booming and happy staff,happy public. This all changed with DM and his hit squad, I guess this shows that the end is nigh for the CofS.

Again welcome and enjoy yourself here, we are a rag tag bunch of misfits but thats why I use the word "WE" , all the misfits fit here LOL

Many thanks Doom

I love the cute kitty in your avatar

 

[Dark Phoenix]

DP!

Thanks a bunch, Wisened One.

And a big thanks again to all of you for warm welcome

Looking forward to chatting with you all

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I'm with you, I really am. I know that some church members can sometimes seem rather off-putting. I actually remember a couple of them trying out some stereotypical Scientological stare on me. People sometimes comment that church members often suck at communicating. Sadly, this is sometimes all too true.

I guess I was kind of playing devil's advocate. I did like your post, actually.

How bored we'd all be without the devil keeping us on out toes

Glad you liked my post Fluffy, thanks for the kudos

 

[Alanzo]

I remember at first the staff seemed creepy because they were not like normal people. They held your gaze for too long, talked excessivly positively about some odd things and critisized other normal things. Someone is creepy if they don't behave in the normal socially accepted way. Scino's don't, but it can be very subtle at first. The full creepiness isn't manifested until you attend one of the fundraiser 'lock-in' events - Like the Pommeranian tour (I'd never heard of him - this famous Hollywood dude was what - some TV bit part actor - who reads the closing credits anyway) After a while you get used to it, which probably means you have become a creep.

Also I remember a lot of the new public seemed abnormal in some way - life's flotsam and jetsam - losers washed up on the shoresof the Org. Like me - I was a total loser when I started as a Scino.

The Orgs natural prey are the misfits, depressed, naive, loners etc. For this reason the ideal org policy will never work. They want to attract more upstat public. a big shiny impressive Org will no longer attract the natural prey, and the upstat will keep staying away from the creep show.

Very well said.

They are mostly the plaid pants/striped shirt crowd, with unfortunate names that have served to distance them over the years like "Lymon Spurlock" and "Harry Palmer".

Already disfigured socially, they then add weird ways to interact to their personal repertoire, based on skills taught for completely different reasons than simple conversation. They TEE ARRR ZEEROOOOO you to death when they should simply be talking about the weather.

But they can't talk about the weather because that would be too "PTS to the Middle Class", so they have to Root! Root! for weird little things that nobody has heard about.

To think that I used to be a rock musician before entering this world of Scientology staff, totally Mr. Cool from my mid teens on. But I'd opted for a life with meaning instead of one of poseur-ship, and ended up with this.

Now, I'm 48 and fat, and way past any hope of ever being cool again.

I look back on this time and pride myself for my choice of living a life of meaning over cool - but did it really have to get so creepy?

 

[Good twin]

Dammit Alanzo. If 48 and fat is uncool, how's that supposed to make me feel?

You are so mean.

I'm done stalking you. Bye.

(sorry for the threadjacking Dark Phoenix)

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Dammit Alanzo. If 48 and fat is uncool, how's that supposed to make me feel?

You are so mean.

I'm done stalking you. Bye.

(sorry for the threadjacking Dark Phoenix)

Threadjack away sweetie

I'm 35 and already a crazy cat lady(3 cats and counting.....)

 

[Good twin]

Threadjack away sweetie

I'm 35 and already a crazy cat lady(3 cats and counting.....)

I knew I was gonna like you.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I knew I was gonna like you.

 

[justaguy]

We're all just people here. Even the math geeks.

You said you been lurking a bit, so you know it's a friendly bunch.

Most of the time.

Okay, it's a friendly bunch but we're all a little bit wrong in the head. Except Emma, who is Queen, and you, who have not yet been corrupted by ESMB's super-SP suppression . As you, sadly, are not queen of ESMB, you too, will be corrupted. It's happening already. Can you feel it? :spooky music:

But that's what makes ESMB Fun!

welcome2:

 

[Cherished]

I imagined ESMB being this room of very dignified and poised cats, and AO charges in, with the best of intentions of course(maybe), like the blundering St Bernard, clumsily slobbering his way through the thread. Kudos to the perseverance of all you cool cats.

And with that, you've already made me laugh. Thanks, lovely one. You are obviously progressing on a journey from a horrid place to a healed and healing place. Keep going!

Much love to you. You are Cherished.