Hi Folks on ESMB

I'm 35 and already a crazy cat lady(3 cats and counting.....):omg:

Welcome Dark Phoenix! I like so much of what you have said already. I love it that there are so many cat avatars. And I am going to grow old as one of those old ladies with too many cats but I am currently living with only 2(but they are so sentient).

It has been interesting to read what you were saying about the staff being so creepy. (and what others have said about it). Are you sensitive to people's energies? It took me years away from $cn to acknowledge how much I could sense about a person just by perceiving their energy. Creepy seems to be the quickest one can perceive among the bad energies. I am glad it helped you stay away from the church. My first encounter with a scilon was a very charismatic fellow college student.................boy did I get sucked in, and thought that orgs would be filled with people like him.

I look forward to what you have to say.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Welcome Dark Phoenix! I like so much of what you have said already. I love it that there are so many cat avatars. And I am going to grow old as one of those old ladies with too many cats but I am currently living with only 2(but they are so sentient).

It has been interesting to read what you were saying about the staff being so creepy. (and what others have said about it). Are you sensitive to people's energies? It took me years away from $cn to acknowledge how much I could sense about a person just by perceiving their energy. Creepy seems to be the quickest one can perceive among the bad energies. I am glad it helped you stay away from the church. My first encounter with a scilon was a very charismatic fellow college student.................boy did I get sucked in, and thought that orgs would be filled with people like him.

I look forward to what you have to say.

You know, the Black Panther is, hands down by everyone who knows, the most dangerous predator on Earth to humans.

They are the stealthiest, the strongest, the most cunning, have the sharpest claws and teeth, than any of the big cats. Only Polar Bears are stronger, but not half as smart.

You have picked the most dangerous animal in the world for your avatar.

And you are into "energies"?

If you don't mind, and if Dark Phoenix can spare the postal space in her thread, please explain yourself.
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
You know, the Black Panther is, hands down by everyone who knows, the most dangerous predator on Earth to humans.

They are the stealthiest, the strongest, the most cunning, have the sharpest claws and teeth, than any of the big cats. Only Polar Bears are stronger, but not half as smart.

You have picked the most dangerous animal in the world for your avatar.

And you are into "energies"?

If you don't mind, and if Dark Phoenix can spare the postal space in her thread, please explain yourself.

Alonzo,

er, no. I think you will find that the Siberian Tiger is much bigger, stronger, stealthier than the Black Panther. It lives in an extremely hostile environment and has had to adapt its skills accordingly.

The Black Panther is an extremely shy animal that is very dangerous due to its ability to hunt in heavy tropical vegetation.

The Polar Bear is the most dangerous as it is the only animal that will hunt humans for food.

Trust this helps.

Dart
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Alonzo,

er, no. I think you will find that the Siberian Tiger is much bigger, stronger, stealthier than the Black Panther. It lives in an extremely hostile environment and has had to adapt its skills accordingly.

The Black Panther is an extremely shy animal that is very dangerous due to its ability to hunt in heavy tropical vegetation.

The Polar Bear is the most dangerous as it is the only animal that will hunt humans for food.

Trust this helps.

Dart

Dammit!!

I HATE these "facts"!!

Thanks a lot, Dart.

I got my info from two guys from South Africa who owned two huge ranches. We spent the afternoon searching for motion-based video cameras for them to put on their land to keep the lions and the hyenas and the leopards from killing their stock. They said of all the animals they had to contend with, the leopards were the most dangerous by far. They didn't mention anything about Siberian Tigers.

Come to think of it now, the Polar Bear is my all time favorite animal and always has been. And now it turns out they are the most dangerous to humans.

Hmmmm. Maybe I'm into "energies" as well!
 
Last edited:

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I agree with the creep factor in a few Scientologists I've been around. I did meet one or two that were not as stillted, or emotionless and not completely void of humor.And come to think of it, though some of them may be over-worked and over-tired, and this can produce an adverse affect on a persons behavior, I don't think this was a regular occurance at the Mission I was at. Truth be told, they rarely ever looked tired or overworked. To me, anyway.No obvious black circles or puffiness around the eyes, not a hint of lethargy or paleness of complexion, No slight dishevelment of clothes, hair neither grubby nor bedraggled and a healthy amount of more than just skin on the bones.That was my experience of it. There were some days, and indeed nights too, when people would get tired and a slovenly and unkempt look would appear here and there. But a consistenly sleep deprived and undernourished motley crew they certainly were not.

These days I think the creep factor is more a result of not being able to attract the upstat/uptone from the public, as opposed to some TRs overload

Here's a bit about my own experience with some of the more 'creepy' types.
I don't attribute this unerving disposition to mental and physical exhaustion.
Personally, I think they already had a creepy disposition to begin with, but that's just opinion.

The experience of making normal polite conversation with my then fellow reality rebels was certainly an experience. Granted not everyone behaved the way I'm about to explain; As I mentioned earlier, one or two could be quite pleasant, even animated. Although I also experienced those same pleasant people completely change tone in an instant, usually to hostility, and usually because the wrong thing was done or said. Anyway, when I did make the effort to be friendly with some of the others, I'd start up what I considered a trivial, light-hearted, conversation, totaly inoffensive. I'd ask a few questions, nothing too intrusive - so ya worked here long? you see such and such film or play?, do you like sardines? That sort of thing. maybe I'd throw in a semi -rhetorical 'Isn't the weather just so changable at the moment?', , etc, and I would pepper my ramblings with random opinions or I'd simply just state the obvious. This was my way of trying to engage people. The almost non-existant participation of my Impartiality challenged comrades, despite my oh so obvious charm, did however elicit plenty of the ole unblinking eye routine; stares fixed on me, and nobody smiling; no sense of any personal warmth, connection or affinity. They would also never answer any question straight away. There'd always be a noticeable few seconds of silence from any one of these humorless, truth resistant cohorts, sleep walking there way through each day. Shackled minds deprived, no enviscerated, of everything true and everything real, and any truth that was once uniquely their own. So they would just look at me. And depending on who I was talking to, I could detect a fairly palpable defensiveness suddenly take shape in their posture and facial expression. And when they finally answered what I'd asked, they would give vague answers; and exude an attitude that made it very clear it was none of my business to know anything about them outside what's necessary for 'Clearing the Planet'. I find this carryon really does underscore a baseline paranoia that I've witnessed in many Scientologists. Persecution complexes are almost worn like a badge of honor, a must have feature of the indoctrination pack. It might also be the case, more realistically actually, that a friendly bit of banter about life outside Scientology, with Scientologists on their own turf, was actually a bit of a Scientological faux pas within the sanctury of the Scientology Mission. Silly me, I finally concluded. Why would such enlightened creatures want to hear about the vulgar and idiotic goings-on in the depraved lives of the wog world? A wholely sordid topic indeed; a travesty of entheta that can only arouse disgust; a grotesque assault on the the more noble senses of the Homo Novis; simply best avoided by the BS detection impaired.

I left very shortly after that.


If there is an ESMB Hall of Fame for great classic posts, this one so belongs there.

:thumbsup:
 
You know, the Black Panther is, hands down by everyone who knows, the most dangerous predator on Earth to humans.

They are the stealthiest, the strongest, the most cunning, have the sharpest claws and teeth, than any of the big cats. Only Polar Bears are stronger, but not half as smart.

You have picked the most dangerous animal in the world for your avatar.

And you are into "energies"?

If you don't mind, and if Dark Phoenix can spare the postal space in her thread, please explain yourself.

Yes, shy and stealthy like most cats.
Yes, energies--it is the only way I can descrbe what I feel coming off of people. Don't worry, it's just a feeling. I also like working with healing energies. (I guess I could be called a New Ager, though the practices I find most practicial are usually very ancient). Dangerous and predatory are really not in my nature.....no matter what illusion I like to present. I confess to being a resident :squirrel:

This particular avatar "spoke" to the fact of being far, far away (from scn--there's no missions, etc. near where I live and no one I currently know is in the Co$) and perched high being able to observe from a distance. I know you can't tell from the picture, but there are a couple books underneath the panther to be read when not dreaming

Oh, and Black Panther represents "embracing the unknown". I like Native American/native culture symbolisms of animals.

Thank you, Dark Phoenix, for letting me explain something of myself to Alanzo on this thread. I haven't posted my story because very little of it has to do with the 8 years I was a member of Co$ (5 months on staff, very few courses[no $$] one course I never finished because I couldn't FSM anyone to come into the church/to take a course or service.)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yes, shy and stealthy like most cats.
Yes, energies--it is the only way I can descrbe what I feel coming off of people. Don't worry, it's just a feeling. I also like working with healing energies. (I guess I could be called a New Ager, though the practices I find most practicial are usually very ancient). Dangerous and predatory are really not in my nature.....no matter what illusion I like to present. I confess to being a resident :squirrel:

This particular avatar "spoke" to the fact of being far, far away (from scn--there's no missions, etc. near where I live and no one I currently know is in the Co$) and perched high being able to observe from a distance. I know you can't tell from the picture, but there are a couple books underneath the panther to be read when not dreaming

Oh, and Black Panther represents "embracing the unknown". I like Native American/native culture symbolisms of animals.

Thank you, Dark Phoenix, for letting me explain something of myself to Alanzo on this thread. I haven't posted my story because very little of it has to do with the 8 years I was a member of Co$ (5 months on staff, very few courses[no $$] one course I never finished because I couldn't FSM anyone to come into the church/to take a course or service.)

All right. I understand now.

I've changed into a Polar Bear because they seem like smiling, happy dogs to me.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
So the staff made me uneasy, and the cost of their services set bells ringing in my head. Being a college student at the time I didn't always have the kind of money they were looking for. And to be honest, I can safely say that if I had of had the money, I would have handed it over to them. Sure I was interested in the human mind and in helping people, but more than anything i just wanted to belong somewhere, anywhere away from home. Having grown up in a very abusive household, I had seen Scientology as an escape. A chance to feel part of something. Something I just did not feel at home. And I think that was my primary motivation. I did voluntary work through most of my teen years - a crisis helpline for abused kids or visiting the old folks in their homes. But Scientology seemed to be offering something that addressed my needs. It's interesting that I was drawn to Scientology considering that my father had already successfully brainwashed me through his abuse, particulary the emotional and mental abuse. And as many of you here understand how indoctrination and mind control work, growing up in that household, I didn't just believe I was worthless. I 'Knew' I was worthless. I really internalised everything he said. I am still fighting this to this day, but I've made a lot of progress, and will continue to do so.
Dark Phoenix, I found your story not only moving, brave, honest and forthright, but also important.

I also identify with your story. I, too, suffered earlier abuse (albeit of a different kind) or... deprivation, did volunteer work, and thought Scientology offered something that addressed my needs.

In my experience a lot of otherwise smart and intelligent people get drawn into Scientology because they are emotionally vulnerable and needy. People who were "uneasy," and who had COS conduct "set bells ringing in [their] head," but nonetheless got involved, and indeed deeper involved, because the COS provided a sense of being appreciated, of being needed, of having a purpose, of for once, finally, belonging to something. Xenu knows that is why I got involved, and stayed involved, off and on, for so many years.

I was lonely.

In the past here I have used the word "weak," to my sometimes regret. But I don't use the term "weak" as a pejorative or to be judgmental, but merely to be descriptive. In the same way one might say a steel girder in a bridge failed because it was "weak." You don't "blame" the girder, you simply recognize it for what it is. (I guess a Scientologist would say you "as is" it.) I've accurately described myself as having been "weak" in precisely the same way. I was lonely, weak and needy. There, I said it.

Being at the Org was better than being in my apartment alone, again, after a long, hard day of work.

Finally, I'll note that there is a lot of scientific literature and evidence to the effect that someone who was victimized at a young age, as you were by your father, and I was albeit in a different way, is unfortunately a "perfect victim" for the future. I saw it all of the time when I was in Scientology. I also saw it all of the time when I was the first male volunteer at my local shelter for battered women.

The difference between the shelter for battered women and the COS was, of course, this. At the battered woman's shelter we would see a woman who had been victimized (typically molested) when she was a child who was re-victimized (that is, had the crap kicked out of her) by a perceptive predator when she got older. We would try to help her not repeat the patter. (Actually, my job was to play with the kids and provide at least one male role model who wasn't a monster.)

At the COS we would see a person who had been victimized (typically deprived emotionally in some way) when she was younger and, being perceptive predators who had been taught and drilled to "find the ruin," we would re-victimize that person to the greatest extent possible -- drain her bank accounts, have her mortgage her home, load up her credit cards and then, if at all possible, Ron be praised, have her sign a billion year contract.

And then we would be proud of ourselves because our stats were up.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
These days I think the creep factor is more a result of not being able to attract the upstat/uptone from the public, as opposed to some TRs overload

Here's a bit about my own experience with some of the more 'creepy' types.
I don't attribute this unerving disposition to mental and physical exhaustion.
Personally, I think they already had a creepy disposition to begin with, but that's just opinion.
FWIW, I agree. If you consider the history of Dianetics and Scientology, in the early days they attracted a lot of otherwise healthy, well-adjusted, educated and successful people -- college educated, professionals, some doctors, lawyers, etc. As time passed... not so much.

As a practical matter, the target audience, particularly for staff, historically moved from "making the able more able" to find a needy, damaged person, "find the ruin," and then get him to cough up money to cure the ruin, and/or sign him up for staff. Seriously, what other enterprise do you know of where recruitment is based on "find the ruin?"

I would like to add another factor. I do so with some trepidation, but in my experience this factor has a major, albeit often unexplored, impact on behavior, social relations and recruitment in Scientology.

That factor is sex.

From your avatar you appear to be a physically attractive female. Now in my experience as a man, the presence of physically attractive females can discombobulate even healthy, well-adjusted men. That is the nature of the beast.

But in Scientology? Forget about it. "Discombobulate" doesn't even begin to describe the effect.

In my experience Scientologists are just horribly screwed up in the area of sex and sexual or (hopefully) romantic relationships. The Sea Org 2D rules. The Class V Org 2D rules. The 2D rules that technically don't apply to non-staff public, but do apply if one ever wants to do OT levels without a billion humiliating sec checks, or if an "up-stat" gets upset because you broke up with her and writes a KR on you. [Not that there is any sort of story behind that.] No masturbation. Dear Xenu, have you ever read the "Pain and Sex" HCOB? If that doesn't screw a person up, they weren't human to begin with.

And can you imagine, as in one case I am aware of, being required to read the "Pain and Sex" HCOB when you are 14 a year old male?

Then you throw a physically attractive female into the equation? Again, forget about it. A perfect recipe or ill-disguised and ill-suppressed frustration and dysfunction.

Given the fact that they were dysfunctional to begin with (they were, after all, Scientologists), no wonder they had a difficult time talking with you.

********
Final story. I once made the mistake of showing a female friend of mine, a woman on OT VII, a passage in one of Ron's Mission Earth books that disparaged oral sex. You guessed it, thereafter her husband wasn't getting any. Hopefully he never learned that I was the person he had to thank.

But seriously, one's sex life with one's husband is limited and defined not by what is in the red-on-whites or the green-on-whites, but by the passage in a novel?
 
Last edited:

Dark Phoenix

Patron Meritorious
We're all just people here. Even the math geeks.

You said you been lurking a bit, so you know it's a friendly bunch.

Most of the time.

Okay, it's a friendly bunch but we're all a little bit wrong in the head. Except Emma, who is Queen, and you, who have not yet been corrupted by ESMB's super-SP suppression . As you, sadly, are not queen of ESMB, you too, will be corrupted. It's happening already. Can you feel it? :spooky music:

But that's what makes ESMB Fun! :p :happydance: :hyper:

:welcome2::welcome:welcome2:

A friendly bunch indeed JGuy, most definitely one of qualities I really like about ESMB. And this lends itself very well to a culture of open and honest debate, and where people in need of support can feel safe to reach out and be met with understanding, compassion and genuine feedback. It's also a credit to the overall intelligence of the group that such a culture is both possible and sustained. I, for one, am quite content to be corrupted by anything that can boast such a reputation :coolwink:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
Dark Phoenix, I found your story not only moving, brave, honest and forthright, but also important.

I also identify with your story. I, too, suffered earlier abuse (albeit of a different kind) or... deprivation, did volunteer work, and thought Scientology offered something that addressed my needs.

In my experience a lot of otherwise smart and intelligent people get drawn into Scientology because they are emotionally vulnerable and needy. People who were "uneasy," and who had COS conduct "set bells ringing in [their] head," but nonetheless got involved, and indeed deeper involved, because the COS provided a sense of being appreciated, of being needed, of having a purpose, of for once, finally, belonging to something. Xenu knows that is why I got involved, and stayed involved, off and on, for so many years.

I was lonely.

In the past here I have used the word "weak," to my sometimes regret. But I don't use the term "weak" as a pejorative or to be judgmental, but merely to be descriptive. In the same way one might say a steel girder in a bridge failed because it was "weak." You don't "blame" the girder, you simply recognize it for what it is. (I guess a Scientologist would say you "as is" it.) I've accurately described myself as having been "weak" in precisely the same way. I was lonely, weak and needy. There, I said it.

Being at the Org was better than being in my apartment alone, again, after a long, hard day of work.

Finally, I'll note that there is a lot of scientific literature and evidence to the effect that someone who was victimized at a young age, as you were by your father, and I was albeit in a different way, is unfortunately a "perfect victim" for the future. I saw it all of the time when I was in Scientology. I also saw it all of the time when I was the first male volunteer at my local shelter for battered women.

The difference between the shelter for battered women and the COS was, of course, this. At the battered woman's shelter we would see a woman who had been victimized (typically molested) when she was a child who was re-victimized (that is, had the crap kicked out of her) by a perceptive predator when she got older. We would try to help her not repeat the patter. (Actually, my job was to play with the kids and provide at least one male role model who wasn't a monster.)

At the COS we would see a person who had been victimized (typically deprived emotionally in some way) when she was younger and, being perceptive predators who had been taught and drilled to "find the ruin," we would re-victimize that person to the greatest extent possible -- drain her bank accounts, have her mortgage her home, load up her credit cards and then, if at all possible, Ron be praised, have her sign a billion year contract.

And then we would be proud of ourselves because our stats were up.


That made me shudder, physically.

That post needs to go into the ESMB hall of fame.
 

Dark Phoenix

Patron Meritorious
And with that, you've already made me laugh. Thanks, lovely one. You are obviously progressing on a journey from a horrid place to a healed and healing place. Keep going!

Much love to you. You are Cherished.

Such Beautiful words, Cherished. Thankyou for such a wonderful affirmation:rose:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top