Hi

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think an important thing to know when dealing with someone in a cult is that criticism of their beliefs will not be tolerated. You can probably have a sensible discussion with most people about their beliefs but if you try to tell a scientologist that their beliefs are wrong then you become an enemy.

If your dad wants to be a scientologist then let him. If you don't criticise him then you should still be able to have a relationship but if you keep telling him he's an idiot then he will have to report this to the scientology organization and they will make him disconnect from you. He's been told that all criticism of scientology comes from evil people so the more you criticise, the more evil he thinks you are. Until he comes to his senses in his own time and in his own way, that is the situation.
 

Jim Dandy

Patron with Honors
I don't need you or anyone else to act like a total prat but it seems you are going to anyway.
Yes I exhibited one of the "traits of an SP" last night. I "attacked" the "wrong target". I do apologize.

What happened specifically is Uncover snarkily tied me in being friends with Marty and Alanzo because I advised that the OP try to continue to have a relationship with her Dad because he probably won't be urged to disconnect as long as she doesn't insist that he dump Scientology. I then related my experience with having still-in friends now.

Uncover's comment/reply ruined the "buzz" for me. It set the mood to irritated and I should've just logged off at that point, which I did do, but not before I was snarky with you myself, and that was unfair to you.

Once again it is proven, to me anyway, that you cannot have a sustained intelligent thread regarding the subject of Scientology on ESMB without some low IQ fuckwit coming in and fouling it up with his or her shit. So I'm blocking all threads on the subject of Scientology. I'm sick of the subject anyway. Totally sick of it. Once I figure out how to block entire Scilon related forums I will do that. It's the off topic threads that I much prefer here.

Oh, and Uncover: I am hardly a friend of Alanzo when we do not like each other and I am banned from his blog. No one is a friend of Marty other than maybe some locals down there where he lives.
 
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George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
The problem is that the church's Intelligence wing, the Office of Special Affairs (OSA), monitor this and other message boards that are critical of Scientology. If they figure out who you are, they will eventually force your dad to choose between you and them (and it perhaps would happen very quickly). You could be declared a "Suppressive Person" for criticising Scientology on this board. This will mean that your dad will no longer be able to talk to you, unless he leaves the church himself and also gets declared suppressive. If that happens, any of your other family members who are in the church will also face the same situation. So you risk losing contact with your family by posting your identity, or by posting enough information for OSA to figure out who you are.

Some people don't care about that, and prefer to maintain their integrity and speak it as they see it and show their identity. If that's you, fine. I think Jim Dandy just wanted you to realise what will happen, and give you a heads up so you could take your identity down if you don't want to reap the family consequences of that. There's probably nothing that the church will do against you personally, apart from attempting to disconnect your Scientology connections from you - if you are employed by a Scientologist, or have Scientology clients, you will lose them. But your dad will be threatened with losing his 'Bridge to Total Freedom'. If he is a true believer, and it sounds like he is, he will probably put his spiritual salvation before you. To a Scientologist, you are just a homo sapiens. Their goal is to achieve spiritual liberation, which saves them from endless re-incarnated lifetimes of ever-increasing spiritual misery - what they call the 'dwindling spiral' of existence. They are taught that family, children, money, life are all far less important than that spiritual goal. They will tell him that you are a suppressive, and that you are standing in the way of his route to spiritual freedom. He must sacrifice his relationship with you for the greater good. And he can save you later, perhaps in a future lifetime, when you come to your senses and stop being suppressive.

This may all seem ridiculous to you. But your dad will take it very seriously. That's why you should think about whether you want to reveal details that can expose your identity to them.
Also scientology will use this opportunity to bilk you family for more money by claiming they need to pay for security checks. The cult will make it difficult for your family on top of any misgivings they may have over your disregard for their "spiritual beliefs".
 

J. Warbler

Patron
I find myself in a situation similar to Please Help's situation, though my relative, thank goodness, is more distant. In fact, they might be more of a "friend" than a relative.

I've already figured out that it's a very bad idea to bring up the subject of the church myself. But how to respond when they bring it up? You can only pointedly change the subject so many times before it gets obvious that you have a pretty low opinion of their enthusiasm.

It's reaching the point where I'm the one doing the disconnecting, simply because I'm afraid of talking to this person. Sigh.....
 

FoTi

Crusader
Not sure I guess how to ask it without sounding kind of rude or obnoxious because I get most ex members probably joined long before one could google things but did you know when you joined that this guy was just a sci-fi author?
Please Help......

I didn't know LRH was a sci-fi author....I didn't read sci-fi back then....early 70's.

If you want to maybe get an idea as to how people get involved in Scientology and why they stay in and what people go thru if they have a close relative who is antagonistic to Scientology, you can read "My Story" by clicking on the link to My story - My Ups and Downs - on the bottom of this post. It's a long read, but It might give you a better understanding of your father and what is going on with him.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Yes I exhibited one of the "traits of an SP" last night. I "attacked" the "wrong target". I do apologize.

What happened specifically is Uncover snarkily tied me in being friends with Marty and Alanzo
Uncover sense of humour ranges from lighthearted humour to incisive comments which often amuses me.
He is one of a kind. He drops a short line, like a quick bite :D and then vanishes.

ESMB is also , at times, a comedy show..with all sort of humour, ranging from dark, sarcasm, irony, teasing, kidding, parody, amusing... funny...
some enjoy, some don't, especially when they become the ''victim'' for a short moment.
Isn't it easier to keep being cool and relax as well as retaliate and fight back with a better one to entertain us, and run the show. ;)
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Also scientology will use this opportunity to bilk you family for more money by claiming they need to pay for security checks. The cult will make it difficult for your family on top of any misgivings they may have over your disregard for their "spiritual beliefs".
Yes, Scientology will never pass up an opportunity to urgently demand money from a member to "deal with a situation which NEEDS TO BE HANDLED RIGHT NOW".
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Yes I exhibited one of the "traits of an SP" last night. I "attacked" the "wrong target". I do apologize.

What happened specifically is Uncover snarkily tied me in being friends with Marty and Alanzo because I advised that the OP try to continue to have a relationship with her Dad because he probably won't be urged to disconnect as long as she doesn't insist that he dump Scientology. I then related my experience with having still-in friends now.

Uncover's comment/reply ruined the "buzz" for me. It set the mood to irritated and I should've just logged off at that point, which I did do, but not before I was snarky with you myself, and that was unfair to you.

Once again it is proven, to me anyway, that you cannot have a sustained intelligent thread regarding the subject of Scientology on ESMB without some low IQ fuckwit coming in and fouling it up with his or her shit. So I'm blocking all threads on the subject of Scientology. I'm sick of the subject anyway. Totally sick of it. Once I figure out how to block entire Scilon related forums I will do that. It's the off topic threads that I much prefer here.

Oh, and Uncover: I am hardly a friend of Alanzo when we do not like each other and I am banned from his blog. No one is a friend of Marty other than maybe some locals down there where he lives.


All I saw was Uncover being friendly (with you) and I thought your response was extreme ... so I assumed you must have some kind of 'history'.

FWIW I was being genuine when I said I was glad it had all worked out well for you (re your family) but I can see now that I may have seemed a bit flippant, I think I was trying to get out the door to walk my excited woofers and probably replied too fast.

Anyway, all's well that ends well and all that.

;)
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Not sure I guess how to ask it without sounding kind of rude or obnoxious because I get most ex members probably joined long before one could google things but did you know when you joined that this guy was just a sci-fi author?
It was well known when I was in (mid 70's).
That he was a sci-fi author was irrelevant. What he was saying in the books and the lectures resonated and that's what was important.

If all the other stuff about him like the letters to his first wife, the Babalon working stuff, the writings to and about Sara, the Affirmations, what Nibs said about his father, etc, etc were available, then I would have questioned a lot more and probably never continued.

Now that it's all available on the Internet, I think very few people can be recruited.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
blah, blah, blah....
Oij, oij, oij.... so many MWH-phenomena in a single post..... The interesting part of "Jim Dandy"s post is his signature:
For those who don't know yet, I am Lone Star......

I remember a "Lone Star" who visited Monique Rathbun's court case, commented (together with Don Alonzo) "excessively" on Maaaatys blog, defended Maaaaaty and if I remeber right, was banned here on ESMB.....
.
.
 
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TrevAnon

Big List researcher
Hi there "pleasehelp" and welcome!

Just posting in epic thread where ESMB once agains shows it can help/give good advice to anyone with a COS-related question or simply just be there for them. :)

I think most of the people here were in, but like you I was never. Not even a scientology org within 150 km!

Lots of material about the COS on the internet. By now almost anything has been leaked. Besides people here Google may help answering questions.

Lots of people (both exes as well as never ins) have come out with their disconnection stories: http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Accounts_of_Scientology's_Disconnection_Policy_by_Former_Members_and_Others

I sure hope your father won't disconnect though.

Concluding remark: being called an "SP" by now is a badge of honor. :D
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oij, oij, oij.... so many MWH-phenomena in a single post..... The interesting part of "Jim Dandy"s post is his signature:


I remember a "Lone Star" who visited Monique Rathbun's court case, commented (together with Don Alonzo) "excessively" on Maaaatys blog, defended Maaaaaty and if I remeber right, was banned here on ESMB.....
.
.
I think some of it is that lone star likes to keep the chaos going between the different factions that have grown out of those that have left scientology.
 

Jim Dandy

Patron with Honors
Oij, oij, oij.... so many MWH-phenomena in a single post..... The interesting part of "Jim Dandy"s post is his signature:


I remember a "Lone Star" who visited Monique Rathbun's court case, commented (together with Don Alonzo) "excessively" on Maaaatys blog, defended Maaaaaty and if I remeber right, was banned here on ESMB.....
.
.

Yes I went to the court case but I did not become friends with Marty, although I did have some nice conversations with Mosey. Believe me one does not become friends with Marty unless one does something that endears him. Like maybe going down to Casablanca and giving him money for some auditing would be one thing, which I never did.

As far as Marty's blog goes, well, you know anyone can post as "Lone Star" there. Marty doesn't check for IDs. Some of those posts were mine, but not necessarily all of them.

I am not banned from ESMB. I simply cannot log in as "Lone Star" anymore due to a snafu. I could get Emma to fix it probably, but I decided that it wasn't that important. I PM'd her the first day I opened an account as Jim Dandy and let her know it was me.

If you have a problem with that, take it up with her Sunshine. Oh the purpose of my signature is to let people know who I am. The "I think" part is meant to be humorous. Or is it?

But Marty says, "Hi!" :laugh:
 
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uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am not banned from ESMB. I simply cannot log in as "Lone Star" anymore due to a snafu......
Of course it is possible that I got something not right, but then at least I was not alone:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/nolch-alanzo-on-scn-haters.43755/#post-1138657
both Alanzo and Lone Star caused themselves to be banned on purpose, they both know the rules damn well.
.....
Maybe it's because Alanzo, Lone Star, Andy and others don't quite understand Ad Hom. There is fine line and can be tricky and not understood. .....
https://literarydevices.net/ad-hominem/
.....
I am in 100% disagreement with Alanzo and Lone Star, .....
This does not mean I hate Alanzo, Lone Star or others .....
.....
Lone Star, you agreed in your reply to me on Alanzo blog, that there are no clears or OT's. Do you really think it's OK to let people read and study LRH books, lectures, training, auditing for a long time whether in the corporate COS or Indie for a false purpose or false belief or even right as a citizen to believe in a false outcome of clear or OT?
You and Alanzo and other ex's who post there are forwarding a delusion created by Hubbard and delusional thinking of clear and OT.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oh, and here, this on alanzos blog - written by a "Lone Star" on April 24, 2017 8:21 am:
*lanzosblog.com/esmb-thread-alanzosblog/
..... ESMB ..... . I’ve now gone one solid year without posting over there! Wow….
.....
I also agree with Al in recognizing Veda’s valuable contributions over the years. He and I had some major knock down drag out fights though. Set the place on fire! One time it was so bad we BOTH got temporarily banned. Lol…
.....
I do believe that the fact those fights got so heated was my fault. Sure, he knows how to “work a knife” when he wants to, but I didn’t have to overreact.
Hmmmm......
 
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