Hi

lesath

New Member
I'm really just a random curious onlooker but I decided to make an intro thread because it seems just plain good etiquette. I probably won't post much.

A bit about me: I consider myself part of the skeptic movement. I've been interested in Scientology, cults, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, quackery, spirituality and New Age since the age of twelve -- all from the skeptical side. The strange things that people believe fascinate me. Scientology is one of those things that starts with a few reasonable premises (the ARC triangle and the eight dynamics sound very good, don't they?) and then progresses into weirder, unscientific stuff. It's my personal belief that if our culture promoted science education more, and encouraged critical thinking instead of memorization in schools, far fewer people would fall prey to groups like Scientology.

I've been lurking around anti-Scientology websites and materials for years now, but I went through a dry spell after the freaks over at 4chan picked it up. Idly browsing OC today, I found Ex-Scientology Kids and by a bit of link-clicking, this forum.

Anyway, enough about me. Hi to you all, though I doubt you'll be seeing much of me.
 
Last edited:

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm really just a random curious onlooker but I decided to make an intro thread because it seems just plain good etiquette. I probably won't post much.

A bit about me: I consider myself part of the skeptic movement. I've been interested in Scientology, cults, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, quackery, spirituality and New Age since the age of twelve -- all from the skeptical side. The strange things that people believe fascinate me. Scientology is one of those things that starts with a few reasonable premises (the ARC triangle and the eight dynamics sound very good, don't they?) and then progresses into weirder, unscientific stuff. It's my personal belief that if our culture promoted science education more, and encouraged critical thinking instead of memorization in schools, far fewer people would fall prey to groups like Scientology.

I've been lurking around anti-Scientology websites and materials for years now, but I went through a dry spell after the freaks over at 4chan picked it up. Idly browsing OC today, I found Ex-Scientology Kids and by a bit of link-clicking, this forum.

Anyway, enough about me. Hi to you all, though I doubt you'll be seeing much of me.

Dear Lesath, thanks for posting and welcome to this board. I couldn't agree more with regard to your point about promoting science education as well as critical thinking. Of course, critical thinking is the one thing that you suspend when you get into scn.

Hope to hear more from you.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
I'm really just a random curious onlooker but I decided to make an intro thread because it seems just plain good etiquette. I probably won't post much.

A bit about me: I consider myself part of the skeptic movement. I've been interested in Scientology, cults, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, quackery, spirituality and New Age since the age of twelve -- all from the skeptical side. The strange things that people believe fascinate me. Scientology is one of those things that starts with a few reasonable premises (the ARC triangle and the eight dynamics sound very good, don't they?) and then progresses into weirder, unscientific stuff. It's my personal belief that if our culture promoted science education more, and encouraged critical thinking instead of memorization in schools, far fewer people would fall prey to groups like Scientology.

I've been lurking around anti-Scientology websites and materials for years now, but I went through a dry spell after the freaks over at 4chan picked it up. Idly browsing OC today, I found Ex-Scientology Kids and by a bit of link-clicking, this forum.

Anyway, enough about me. Hi to you all, though I doubt you'll be seeing much of me.
Welcome. Nice to meet you.

I too, consider myself part of the skeptic movement. One of my favorite philosophers is Karl Popper (more). In my opinion, the concept of falsifiability is very useful in addressing the claims of Scientology. I've used the concept while arguing against both Scientologists and Freezoners. Hell, I used it while in Scientology, which at times didn't make me particularly popular.

The scary (and embarrassing) thing is that I considered myself part of the skeptical movement, had read Popper, understood the concept of falsifiability, and read Skeptic and Skeptical Inquirer magazines before I got involved in Scientology, and even while I was involved in Scientology. [Which may explain why I was never a "good fit."] I nevertheless was in and out of Scientology for years. I think the reasons have something to do with the following.

First, as you appear to accept, a lot of beginning and basic Scientology (the ARC triangle, the KRC triangle, the ideal of the ability "confront" things, etc.) appear to make sense and be useful. The slide into non-falsifiable claims, and indeed madness, is gradual and accompanied by a lot of social and peer pressure.

Secondly, as I've written before, my education gave me a false sense of security and, again embarrassingly, hubris. Surely I wouldn't be sucked in given my education. (Yeah right.)

Finally, and most importantly, I got sucked in for emotional, psychological, and particularly in my case familial reasons. As no less an empiricist than David Hume (more) recognized, "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them." Which may just be a fancy way of saying it is amazing what you will do, and the crap you will put up with, if you are lonely.

Yes, the promotion of science education and critical thinking would be helpful. Perhaps necessary; but certainly not sufficient. Also necessary, and maybe, just maybe, sufficient, would be to have fewer people running around who have large, gnawing emotional holes that just can't be filled.

Would have worked for me.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
I couldn't agree more with regard to your point about promoting science education as well as critical thinking. Of course, critical thinking is the one thing that you suspend when you get into scn.
I think this is a very important and insightful point, and one that people frequently miss. One can have critical thinking skills, but consciously or unconsciously suspend or fail to use them for various reasons -- emotional need, loneliness, peer pressure, social dynamics, etc.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Excellent first post lesoth! I agree, lack of sane education didn't help and I agree is one factor but of course there are a million different reasons as we are all individulas but of course time in the cult removed this individuality. Look forward to reading more of your thoughts. :thumbsup:
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think this is a very important and insightful point, and one that people frequently miss. One can have critical thinking skills, but consciously or unconsciously suspend or fail to use them for various reasons -- emotional need, loneliness, peer pressure, social dynamics, etc.

Absolutely true - I was a math/science student with a major in physics -- it was the longing for a place to belong that got me that encouraged me to suspend the critical thinking. Education alone isn't the firewall protection.
 
Welcome to Lesath.

I agree with Kha Khan. Sometimes I hear the most stupid dumbfuck crap being put out by people who did have education in critical thinking etc.
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Absolutely true - I was a math/science student with a major in physics -- it was the longing for a place to belong that got me that encouraged me to suspend the critical thinking. Education alone isn't the firewall protection.

Welcome to Lesath.

I agree with Kha Khan. Sometimes I hear the most stupid dumbfuck crap being put out by people who did have education in critical thinking etc.

Yes, but having had good grounding in critical thinking will help in breaking free of the cult's grip as well. Even though it is suspended it can be reawakened. I know from personal experience that the critical thinking returns after enough b.s. is encountered.:D
 
Yes, but having had good grounding in critical thinking will help in breaking free of the cult's grip as well. Even though it is suspended it can be reawakened. I know from personal experience that the critical thinking returns after enough b.s. is encountered.:D

Oh yes. I completlety agree. I am an avid supporter of critical thinking, and maybe my last post was an overstatement. Just an observation about selective application, which I may do myself at times.
 
The strange things that people believe fascinate me. Scientology is one of those things that starts with a few reasonable premises (the ARC triangle and the eight dynamics sound very good, don't they?) and then progresses into weirder, unscientific stuff.


That depends on what you consider to be scientology. The actual tech of auditing is quite rational in it's guidelines. The beliefs of scientologists, including the Hubbard's space opera track, need not be.

The important thing is to distinguish what's what and only use what makes sense to you. Same as Buddhism. :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 
Here is a mantra. They have mantras in budhism.
This mantra is a scientology mantra. A scientology
tech mantra. Mantras are good. This is a scientology
tech mantra



Tech is only good
people can be bad
Tech is only good
people can be bad
only people can be bad
tech cannot be bad
tech is good
people can be bad
tech good
people can be bad
tech good safe
people can be bad
tech safe
tech is good
people can be bad
tech safe
people can be bad
tech is like budhism
tech is good
only people can be bad
budhism is safe
tech similar budhism
people can be bad
tech good
people can be brainwashed
tech good
people can be bad
tech good
people can brainwash
tech is good
budhism tech good
tech good
peolple can be brainwashed
tech is good
people can be brainwashed
by people
Tech cannot brainwash
tech is good
budhism not brainwash
tech similar budhism
tech good
tech cannot brainwash
people can brainwash
people are brainwashed people
tech is good
I am thetan
i am not people
tech is good
I am spiritual being
tech is good
I am not people
people can be brainwashed
I cannot be brainwashed
tech is good
other people got brainwashed
tech is good
but I did not get brainwashed
I am not people
tech is good
tech is good
tech is good
tech is good
 

Veda

Sponsor
That depends on what you consider to be scientology. The actual tech of auditing is quite rational in it's guidelines. The beliefs of scientologists, including the Hubbard's space opera track, need not be.

The important thing is to distinguish what's what and only use what makes sense to you. Same as Buddhism. :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker

Standard Scientology PR gimmicks, modified slightly by the Freezone, modified slightly further for the new members at ESMB: tell the person that Scientology is whatever it is that they like, then - gradually - ease them into the real Scientology, the one behind the 'Think for yourself' PR curtain.

Duplicitous and sick.

Why would anyone want to do such a thing? What is it? Scientology PR-syndrome? Should we hold a Scientology PR-syndrome telethon? Bizarre.

Scientology is a secretive subject. It's not a nice thing. No amount of PR will make it nice.
 
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