Homosexuality and Scientology

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
I am creating this thread because of something that happened to my nephew, he posts here as 'Iamnotaffraidanymore'.

You see it never really hit me until just a couple of weeks ago, my nephew came to visit us, it was his first visit since he came out to his family about being gay, in fact I think we are the first family outside of his mum and dad he has been in close contact with since he came out. We love our nephew and that love was never contingent upon his sexuality.

When he arrived he told us of his experience at the hands of the church, a very personal story and one which has not left me since hearing it:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=17192

When he was here he mentioned something which is actually too disgusting to post here, something that was said in regard to the placement of an Ideal Org and Kings Cross and Oxford St, Sydney. You see just prior to his finally walking away from the church he had been convinced to go to a briefing it was in that briefing he learned well enough the regard that the members of the local church held for gays.

From discussions we had that weekend an idea begun to form it's that which I want to let you know about and seek your support.


The gay community represents a large sector of our society there exists support groups for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals, one such group is PFLAG (Parents Friends of Lesbians and Gays) in NSW Australia the membership is in excess of 40,000 members.
This group has membership offices across most western nations, the highest concentration is in Florida...think on that for a moment! A groundswell of protest!

We are working on ways to educate these groups on what L Ron Hubbard has written about homosexuality. Oh we know well the church has changed from those homophobic days of 50's, 60's, 70's and that it is now all inclusive regardless of sexual preferences. So recent experiences such as that of my nephew and the likes of artist Michael Pattinson didn't happen, Paul Haggis didn't resign in protest at the church's stance on gay marriages.

We realise too that some efforts have been made by the church to change those early written materials, I have read the 2007 edition of Science Of Survival it is now 'politically correct', good move by the church. Has this translated to actual on the ground change?

Over the last two weeks or so I have posted on gay forums and for the most part they really don't give a shit about Scientology or other homophobic religions, as they see them. Would they still say that were they confronted with a society run by Scientology? I doubt it! So the plan is to bring them up to speed and allied in our endeavours.

Gay rights are being fought for in most western countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

To the end of aligning forces we work, my nephew has created a facebook group and since it's inception, in a little over 10 days the membership is now at 500. Here is the link:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=112320742113591&ref=nf

We have had a friend create a blog page too which will feature articles on a weekly basis we are also happy to give an airing to church responses and links to relevant sites. Here is the link:

http://scientologyandhomosexuality.com/

If you have friends, relatives and aquaintenances you feel should know about this project please get the message out, it may be they are connected to some leaders in the gay community and that would be ideal, now let me point out this is not limited to Australia, this can be a world wide campaign.

If this pans out as we hope, it is not inconceivable that we could have an 'action day' even a local one, Sydney first would be a grand start, perhaps a national one and maybe just maybe an international day of protest. Hmm my imagination runs wild.


Okay I have said enough, we are open to suggestions you may PM me, trolls excluded.


James


PS: Here is a link to Micheal Pattinson's art work. I tip my hat to you Micheal!

http://mpattinson.smugmug.com/
 
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Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great post :thumbsup:.

I strongly support this movement the Cult constantly violates individual's rights although it would have newbies to the Cult believe otherwise. We know for a fact that the Cult's has intolerance to homosexuality regardless of how they change their text to read so oh 'politically correct'.

My nephew is standing up for his rights and the rights of others. We are with him all the way and we love him just the way he is. :yes:

There are so many shoulders to this 'Bringing down the Cult' wheel that we are all pushing for space however we do remain orderly... gotta like that.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Love it, James.:thumbsup:

Dunno how you're gonna keep the (scilon homophobic) trolls from trying to overload you tho' :D

On the SOS changes, maybe post the old copies of what Hubbard actually wrote rather than the recently-sanitized versions? Just a thought.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is great. I support Allan in this endeavour.

Reading discussions between scientologists (I'm thinking of one on marty's blog), it seems to me that there are scientologists who don't hold to Hubbard's early statements about gay people. Some of these guys argue that Hubbard's theories developed over time and he pulled away from the early statements.

Trouble is, it seems that the early texts are the key (basic) texts of Scientology and I haven't seen any texts being promoted that help new scientologists to contextualise the early statements (and disregard them).

So, while I would never say that all scientologists believe X about homosexuality, I would say that there does not seem to be clear teaching contradicting Hubbard's early and very extreme statements, with the result that it's not surprising if many scientologists do hold pretty horrific views.
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is great. I support Allan in this endeavour.

Reading discussions between scientologists (I'm thinking of one on marty's blog), it seems to me that there are scientologists who don't hold to Hubbard's early statements about gay people. Some of these guys argue that Hubbard's theories developed over time and he pulled away from the early statements.

Trouble is, it seems that the early texts are the key (basic) texts of Scientology and I haven't seen any texts being promoted that help new scientologists to contextualise the early statements (and disregard them).

So, while I would never say that all scientologists believe X about homosexuality, I would say that there does not seem to be clear teaching contradicting Hubbard's early and very extreme statements, with the result that it's not surprising if many scientologists do hold pretty horrific views.


Cherished you make a good point.

Over the course of doing this project I have read up on both sides of the equation, the one point I kept coming back to was, where is the edict from the Chairman of the Board to all org's stating the church's position in regard to homosexuality. If it exists I'd be happy to post it.
Then on top of that we have Haggis' resignation from the church protesting it's stance on gay marriages.
 
Hey Guys,

Just my two cents worth....:p I have been in contact with a number of these support groups (not only gay but general human rights groups) and a number of them are going to be coming on board once they recieve advice from their legal team regarding how much support they can give. This could be the start of a really great thing.

Since creating this group I have herd from a number of ex scientologist gays that hid their sexuality in fear of the consequences and one that was told to disconnect from her sister as she was a lesbain. I have encouraged them to write down their stories and share them to help the cause.

I dare say most of us Aussies and indeed many people around the globe have seen how massive the gay community in Sydney is (ie Sydney Mardi Gras) and one thing i can say is we all stick togeather when it come to gay rights.

I would like to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that has to this date and will continue to in the future show that us truly free people can look past sexuality and see us for what we really are just another people...
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Isn't it bizarre that a 'religion' that proposes the concept of 'meat body' and 'thetan' is so obsessed with what thetans do with their meat bodies?

Zinj
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Hey Guys,

Just my two cents worth....:p I have been in contact with a number of these support groups (not only gay but general human rights groups) and a number of them are going to be coming on board once they recieve advice from their legal team regarding how much support they can give. This could be the start of a really great thing.

Since creating this group I have herd from a number of ex scientologist gays that hid their sexuality in fear of the consequences and one that was told to disconnect from her sister as she was a lesbain. I have encouraged them to write down their stories and share them to help the cause.

I dare say most of us Aussies and indeed many people around the globe have seen how massive the gay community in Sydney is (ie Sydney Mardi Gras) and one thing i can say is we all stick togeather when it come to gay rights.

I would like to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that has to this date and will continue to in the future show that us truly free people can look past sexuality and see us for what we really are just another people...
You have my support! And all my gay FB friends have been notified!
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
wonderful stuff Jimmy!!!!!

:) Thanks for this James,

I too strongly support this. I have many amazing gay people in my life that have always been great friends so I am backing this up 100%.

The most beautiful lady in my life is my amazing Gay sister Elena:yes: I will never forgive or forget the Church trying its best to keep me away from her:angry:

The gay community is a strong one as they have had to be so as to endure much sceptism mainly created by religions and cults.

I find the Gay community inspiring and a happy creative group that should be educated in those who slam them covertly then try to deny it.

Ive had more honesty and friendship with-in the Gay community than I ever did being in the Church of Scientology as a matter of gaytastic fact!:omg:

Go for it James and big love to you and the family for supporting your beautiful nephew:coolwink:

I leave you with a song from my sister and this is from me to the strong & courageous Gay community of this world:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7anJXdfzf4
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
:) Thanks for this James,

I too strongly support this. I have many amazing gay people in my life that have always been great friends so I am backing this up 100%.

The most beautiful lady in my life is my amazing Gay sister Elena:yes: I will never forgive or forget the Church trying its best to keep me away from her:angry:

The gay community is a strong one as they have had to be so as to endure much sceptism mainly created by religions and cults.

I find the Gay community inspiring and a happy creative group that should be educated in those who slam them covertly then try to deny it.

Ive had more honesty and friendship with-in the Gay community than I ever did being in the Church of Scientology as a matter of gaytastic fact!:omg:

Go for it James and big love to you and the family for supporting your beautiful nephew:coolwink:

I leave you with a song from my sister and this is from me to the strong & courageous Gay community of this world:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7anJXdfzf4

Wow ... Sir Facer what a fantastic voice your sister has thank you for sharing it. Love of family and friends is what it's all about ... we love you Miss Sir Facer ....
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hey Guys,

Just my two cents worth....:p I have been in contact with a number of these support groups (not only gay but general human rights groups) and a number of them are going to be coming on board once they recieve advice from their legal team regarding how much support they can give. This could be the start of a really great thing.

Since creating this group I have herd from a number of ex scientologist gays that hid their sexuality in fear of the consequences and one that was told to disconnect from her sister as she was a lesbain. I have encouraged them to write down their stories and share them to help the cause.

I dare say most of us Aussies and indeed many people around the globe have seen how massive the gay community in Sydney is (ie Sydney Mardi Gras) and one thing i can say is we all stick togeather when it come to gay rights.

I would like to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that has to this date and will continue to in the future show that us truly free people can look past sexuality and see us for what we really are just another people...

Allan, there are more gays in Sydney than there are Scn's in the whole world. ;)

And when you add us allies in to the equation, you're on the bigger team for sure.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
John McMaster, Scientology's first clear, was openly gay and although whilst there are still people who remember him with love and respect he was given a hard time in the SO.

One of my best friends at Plymouth Org was a lesbian (whom I won't name here) who was eventually asked to decide between her partner and staying in Scientology; she chose her partner. Sadly her partner was physically abusive though and I remember her showing up at the Org one Monday with a black eye. I sometimes wonder where she is now and what she's doing.
 

RogerB

Crusader
What a Mad, Insane World That "Church" Would Create!

I posted this, below, earlier on Imnotafraidanymore's thread: Scientology and Homosexuality - my story from the inside....

It really also belongs here!

Yes, what a mad, insane and crazy world it would be if the CofS ever got the political or other power it seeks to enforce its "standards" on society . . . as it actually does, per its own policy doctrines, wish to do!

I know for a fact that it has barred gays from the OT Levels.

Jay Johnson, the owner of the American Folk Art Gallery, Madison Avenue, New York, was barred from the OT Levels when I knew him (1980-83) because he was gay! The dictate put down on him at the time was that he had to "be cured" or at least stop his "out-ethics sexual practices" to be allowed on the levels.

Jay eventually died (sometime about 1987 or so) of AIDS, never having gotten onto the levels.

When you look at this in the context of its claims that we are spiritual in nature, and that its processing procedures will raise one above the fixation on bodies and bodily death, it can be seen as totally illogical and nuts that such a prohibition exists.

It is for these and many other reasons that a full and thorough governmental investigation into the CofS must be carried out . . . . as it must be recognized by our elected Representatives that this "church" has the actual policy and intent to be a political force, and to enforce its "standards of conduct and behavior" on all within its purview. Remember that little line of Hubbard's . . ."Political control depends on numbers" . . . and he went on to refer to the need for the church to increase its numbers in order to give it the political control he sought.

RogerB
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
This is a great thread and a very important issue to bring up.

In case there is any question about Scn view of gays, I was SP declared for having a fling with a member of the same sex (though it is not my current orientation, I still respect peoples choices).

Yep, ex-communicated from the "Church of Scientology" for it. No longer able to talk to my mother, who is still in.

I still even have the issue.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a great thread and a very important issue to bring up.

In case there is any question about Scn view of gays, I was SP declared for having a fling with a member of the same sex (though it is not my current orientation, I still respect peoples choices).

Yep, ex-communicated from the "Church of Scientology" for it. No longer able to talk to my mother, who is still in.

I still even have the issue.

Oh for someone to help Bea get that goldenrod uploaded! ;)

How's the baby cooking, Bea?
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
http://www.equalrights.org/publications/kyr/sexdiscrim.pdf

I just posted this link on another thread regarding coerced abortions. It applies here as well.

Anyone who is/was formerly employed and experienced sexual harassment should file a complaint.

If one is presently on staff and reading this....if you filed a complaint while on staff and then were harassed bout filing the complaint that would be a double whammy crime! Would be a rather slam dunk! Just sayin' ...
 
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